So.... What happened to the Imperial Remenant?

The Imperial Remenant is pretty clearly defined as being what was left after episode 6, of the Galactic Empire.

Did all the Moffs/Admirals magically join together under the first order banner?

Or is this supposidly a massive plot hole? I find it hard to believe.

I'm still led to believe that what was left of the galactic empire was cut into a few factions..

The Imperial Remnant (independently operating Moffs,etc), and one large sub faction of it being, the first order.

Otherwise to say the first order IS the Imperial Remenant, is to say that they changed names, banners, and structure between episode 6 and 7, THREE times total..

I'm sure over the next year and a half we will get at least 1 Marvel comics series and a couple of novels expanding the lore of exactly how the empire turned from "Palp's not dead" (Shattered Empire) to Snoke taking over an making the "Imperial Remnant" into the first order.

BTW read anything with "Journey to The Force Awakens" in the title and you will get tidbits of what happens.

So.... What happened to the Imperial Remenant?

The Imperial Remenant is pretty clearly defined as being what was left after episode 6, of the Galactic Empire.

Did all the Moffs/Admirals magically join together under the first order banner?

Or is this supposidly a massive plot hole? I find it hard to believe.

I'm still led to believe that what was left of the galactic empire was cut into a few factions..

The Imperial Remnant (independently operating Moffs,etc), and one large sub faction of it being, the first order.

Otherwise to say the first order IS the Imperial Remenant, is to say that they changed names, banners, and structure between episode 6 and 7, THREE times total..

Two things happened to most of the remains of the Empire:

They dropped their flags (or took up the flag of the Republic), and;

They got curb stomped by the nascent Republic (with help from the Imperial forces who decided to switch sides).

What Imperial forces were left would have fled in disarray to the space now held by the First Order and the New Republic decided to negotiate an armistice rather than crush the First Order. And I'm guessing that the First Order will have turned and fought, possibly delivering a defeat to the New Republic forces chasing them, or at least having severely bloodied them, to cause the New Republic to decide that they didn't want to crush the First Order that badly.

If the FO had a cease fire with the Republic, funding the Resistance is a real jerk move. Probably destabilizing as well. Apparently the NR leadership didn't know about Starkiller Base.

Nations have been doing this for centuries. The US may not have been founded had one world power (France) not funded, trained, and supplied a resistance movement against a rival world power (Britain).

Im not sure that the New Repbulic's Capital is the system that got taken out. It stands to reason that that would be Coruscant and the system that Leia's generals mention having been destroyed was not Coruscant.

Im not sure that the New Repbulic's Capital is the system that got taken out. It stands to reason that that would be Coruscant and the system that Leia's generals mention having been destroyed was not Coruscant.

The visual dictionary specifically said that the New Republic's capital moves every so often by vote. So, Hosnian Prime, and the Hosnian system, was where the Senate was. And probably the bulk of the New Republic fleet. It also sounds like a lot of Mon Mothma's disarmament programs actually went through, with a shift towards local fleets for defense. I could've sworn I saw someone mention that there was still an Empire, and that the First Order is pretty much the group that ran off into the Unknown Regions, along with some other parts of the old Empire.

I wish all of this was explained in the film. It is a bit hollow to just have "good guys" vs "bad guys".

That is all we got with A New Hope.

I think people are rushing to defend TFA too quickly, and forgetting how much groundwork WAS laid in ANH.

For one, we got a lot better picture of the galaxy. We know right from the opening crawl that there is an active civil war going on (is TFA set during a civil war? A cold war? Peace and love everywhere except the planets fighting, here? No idea, it doesn't say...) and that the two sides involved are the Rebels and the Galactic Empire. We know from dialog in the movie that recent history included the Clone Wars (where Kenobi was a general for the Republic). There is even a bit of history we have from THAT period - that the Jedi were peacekeepers for the Republic, and that the Empire wiped them out. We know the Empire arose from the Republic, and indeed at the start of the movie had an Imperial Senate, still, which was ostensibly the channel by which they maintained control. (Although, of course, during the movie the Emperor disbanded the Senate) We know the Empire was divided into regions, with specific governors for each, who would now be given direct control of those systems - so we really had a pretty complete picture of the recent history of the galaxy and current political landscape in ANH. etc.

Compared to TFA, where *most* of what we are discussing in these threads comes from tie-in novels and the like, and even then a pretty huge swath of the setting is still guesswork.

That's a very, very far cry from ANH! ANH did leave some details on the table, but it was selective on what those were (IE., who did the Republic fight in the Clone Wars? An interesting question, but not one relevant to the story as they are long over. How did the Empire defeat the Jedi? Another interesting question, but again not exactly relevant to the story.)

Im not sure that the New Repbulic's Capital is the system that got taken out. It stands to reason that that would be Coruscant and the system that Leia's generals mention having been destroyed was not Coruscant.

Coruscant has not been the capital since the Empire. After Endor it was Chandrila, now it's Hosnian Prime. Or was before it got Alderaan'd.

I feel we got cheated out of seeing a ton of other imperial capital ships ... SSDs, SDs, and many other TIEs than just fighters and variants of fighters.

The Empire got Versailles'ed when it surrendered after losing its last Super Star Destroyer and most of its fleet in the colossal Battle of Jakku. Defanged and all but disarmed. The First Order is a splinter group, hence having to make new kit, and most of it isn't known about by the NR.

Im not sure that the New Repbulic's Capital is the system that got taken out. It stands to reason that that would be Coruscant and the system that Leia's generals mention having been destroyed was not Coruscant.

The visual dictionary specifically said that the New Republic's capital moves every so often by vote. So, Hosnian Prime, and the Hosnian system, was where the Senate was. And probably the bulk of the New Republic fleet. It also sounds like a lot of Mon Mothma's disarmament programs actually went through, with a shift towards local fleets for defense. I could've sworn I saw someone mention that there was still an Empire, and that the First Order is pretty much the group that ran off into the Unknown Regions, along with some other parts of the old Empire.

The political map we know of is Republic, Borderlands, First Order. There is no mention of any other Imperial descended empires.

my one possibly biggest gripe with the film is that we have no idea how big the FO is

we see the one bigass FOSD, and the giant as hell super deathstar (that's no planet...)

and yet, no fleet protecting their greatest military asset

I mean, neither did the empire in ANH but those guys had some serious budgeting issues to blame for that

There are actually what appear to be multiple wedge-shaped capital ships (I'm remembering 3 in my mind's eye) silhouetted against Starkiller base in one or more establishing shots in TFA.

Another question is what the hell is Starkiller Base. It does look like a partially hollowed out Planet. If this was a constructed starbase like the deathstars, how would it have an atmosphere, how would it have seemingly Earth-like gravity, and why does a Resistance guy in the briefing mention that taking out the Thermo-oscillator thingy could destabilize the core (and i believe i heard "of the planet" although i am not totally sure).

But if it is a Planet, there are underlying problems.

- How do they aim the "muzzle" in the right direction. Can they turn the planet at will? If so that should cause severe problems with its stability, climate, gravity, etc.

- They consume one sun per shot as it seems. So even if that system was a binary system, after the second shot the system would have gone dark, and the base would be useless.

- If so, can they move the whole planet through hyperspace in order to suck up more and more systems? Since in that case it wouldnt even be necessary to fire at another starsystem. You could just go somewhere, suck up their sun and disappear. Destroyed planets are spectacular, but if a sun is gone from an inhabited system, the system is just dead and planets will fly off to open space because the sun doesnt bind them anymore.

- If not, they are incredibly stupid to waste that much resources for a two-shot weapon system. Okay you may have decapitaded the Republic, but at a gigantic cost. Better build another Deathstar and just destroy the Senate world and then one planet after the other...

I know that it's intended as a modern fairytale basically, but these are pretty serious questions...

Also the FO must have a gigantic economy behind it, be it stemming from old imperial worlds or from a region in the galaxy they have conquered. Because how else could you build such a gigantic base on a planet, carving out a third of the planets radius at its equator, and building the superweapon into its core. I mean the Deathstars were a gigantic investment even for the Empire that controlled most of the Galaxy and its resources. How much must Starkiller Base cost then and hiw could they build it in secrecy from the Republic? The FO must control a substantial part of the Galaxy, it can't just be a splintergroup!

Starkiller Base is a lot less "how did they build an even bigger Death Star just like that" and makes much more sense when you realise that being a planet killer is all it shares: Starkiller Base is literally just a gun: there's the equatorial ring and the supporting installations. The Death Star was meant to be an unassailable, invincible mobile superfortress. Starkiller Base is space artillery. It's destroyed so easily because it's not meant to be attacked: it's not even really meant to be found. Nobody knows it exists until they fire it.

It's also nowhere near as big as it looks because most of it is planet. The entire volume of the Death Star was built from scratch.

- If so, can they move the whole planet through hyperspace in order to suck up more and more systems? Since in that case it wouldnt even be necessary to fire at another starsystem. You could just go somewhere, suck up their sun and disappear. Destroyed planets are spectacular, but if a sun is gone from an inhabited system, the system is just dead and planets will fly off to open space because the sun doesnt bind themanymore.

The base itself is vunerable.

Furthermore, the crimson lance across the sky is much more intimidating than one of the countless stars in the sky just going out: Starkiller Base and the Death Star are terror weapons, not practical solutions. If all the funds that went into the Death Star went into the Imperial Navy they might not have lost.

As for how they built it, I wouldn't be surprised if they found it and finished it. Wouldn't put it past the Empire to have been building something like that.

Starkiller Base is a lot less "how did they build an even bigger Death Star just like that" and makes much more sense when you realise that being a planet killer is all it shares: Starkiller Base is literally just a gun: there's the equatorial ring and the supporting installations. The Death Star was meant to be an unassailable, invincible mobile superfortress. Starkiller Base is space artillery. It's destroyed so easily because it's not meant to be attacked: it's not even really meant to be found. Nobody knows it exists until they fire it.

It's also nowhere near as big as it looks because most of it is planet. The entire volume of the Death Star was built from scratch.

- If so, can they move the whole planet through hyperspace in order to suck up more and more systems? Since in that case it wouldnt even be necessary to fire at another starsystem. You could just go somewhere, suck up their sun and disappear. Destroyed planets are spectacular, but if a sun is gone from an inhabited system, the system is just dead and planets will fly off to open space because the sun doesnt bind themanymore.

The base itself is vunerable.

Furthermore, the crimson lance across the sky is much more intimidating than one of the countless stars in the sky just going out: Starkiller Base and the Death Star are terror weapons, not practical solutions. If all the funds that went into the Death Star went into the Imperial Navy they might not have lost.

As for how they built it, I wouldn't be surprised if they found it and finished it. Wouldn't put it past the Empire to have been building something like that.

Because it does nonetheless not seem that cheap to make that the FO could just have made it as a two-shot throwaway weapon.

So it could be theorized that Starkiller is actually cheaper than a Death Star?

And as a two-shot, immobile alpha-strike weapon, it's use in destroying a cluster of capital homeworlds seems a fair trade in value.

Holes they'll fill in. Probably by giving it a hyperdrive. Personally I'd have had it drain the sun like the Star Forge rather than consume the whole thing.

So it could be theorized that Starkiller is actually cheaper than a Death Star?

And as a two-shot, immobile alpha-strike weapon, it's use in destroying a cluster of capital homeworlds seems a fair trade in value.

Yes, but if that was true, if it was that cheap and cost-effective, they could just build a lot of these bases and stomp entire starsystems as pretty often...

So it could be theorized that Starkiller is actually cheaper than a Death Star?

And as a two-shot, immobile alpha-strike weapon, it's use in destroying a cluster of capital homeworlds seems a fair trade in value.

Yes, but if that was true, if it was that cheap and cost-effective, they could just build a lot of these bases and stomp entire starsystems as pretty often...

So... You've basically established the plot of Episode IX.

Holes they'll fill in. Probably by giving it a hyperdrive. Personally I'd have had it drain the sun like the Star Forge rather than consume the whole thing.

That would make a lot more sense. But it does not really look like it in the movie at least. It really seems it sucks up the sun entirely (it gets dark) and then fires its energy through space. When they blow up the base in the end, a new sun is in its place afterwards. Slightly bigger than the planet was it seems. What happened to the rest if the huge sun it drained, we might never now

Holes they'll fill in. Probably by giving it a hyperdrive. Personally I'd have had it drain the sun like the Star Forge rather than consume the whole thing.

That would make a lot more sense. But it does not really look like it in the movie at least. It really seems it sucks up the sun entirely (it gets dark) and then fires its energy through space. When they blow up the base in the end, a new sun is in its place afterwards. Slightly bigger than the planet was it seems. What happened to the rest if the huge sun it drained, we might never now

Oh gee...a new sun in its place...fire a Genesis probe at the thing and maybe we get a certain lost hero back to life!

_\\//

The weapon sucks up the sun, compresses it somehow and weaponises it. When the containment system fails due to Poe destroying a key component the sun can no longer be contained and it expands again, inside the planet. They don't blow it up by "chain reaction that destroys whole station just go with it" fatal flaw like the Death Star. It's destroyed because it sucked a sun inside it and without its "thermal oscillator" couldn't take the heat.

Resistance is covertly funded by the Republic. It was Leia's creation. Republic uses T-85 as standard now.

Let me guess: the T-70s were sold as surplus because of missing PL-1s?

Holes they'll fill in. Probably by giving it a hyperdrive. Personally I'd have had it drain the sun like the Star Forge rather than consume the whole thing.

That would make a lot more sense. But it does not really look like it in the movie at least. It really seems it sucks up the sun entirely (it gets dark) and then fires its energy through space. When they blow up the base in the end, a new sun is in its place afterwards. Slightly bigger than the planet was it seems. What happened to the rest if the huge sun it drained, we might never now

Oh gee...a new sun in its place...fire a Genesis probe at the thing and maybe we get a certain lost hero back to life!

_\\//

Episode VIII: The Search for Han

aw yiss

Holes they'll fill in. Probably by giving it a hyperdrive. Personally I'd have had it drain the sun like the Star Forge rather than consume the whole thing.

That would make a lot more sense. But it does not really look like it in the movie at least. It really seems it sucks up the sun entirely (it gets dark) and then fires its energy through space. When they blow up the base in the end, a new sun is in its place afterwards. Slightly bigger than the planet was it seems. What happened to the rest if the huge sun it drained, we might never now

Oh gee...a new sun in its place...fire a Genesis probe at the thing and maybe we get a certain lost hero back to life!

_\\//

Episode VIII: The Search for Han

aw yiss

This isn't a totally screwy idea. After all, they are going to be casting a young Han Solo actor for a solo Solo film. They could synergize with the core trilogy.

There has to be a substantial imperial remnant that is separate from he first order. Why else would the NR fleets not be crushing the First Order? They have a cease-fire with someone.

If you read the aftermath book,

But if not, also think about Jakku. A massive battle happened there, it even involved an SSD, and all those ships crash landed in the desert, so that's pretty much where the majority of the empire ended up. the rest became the first order.

If the FO had a cease fire with the Republic, funding the Resistance is a real jerk move. Probably destabilizing as well. Apparently the NR leadership didn't know about Starkiller Base.

I like to think of the resistance as sort of like the American Volunteer Group (Flying Tigers) or the Eagle Squadron from WW2. Basically the republic is saying "The first order are a bunch of d-bags we'd really like to crush but we can't because senate, but we can't control the actions of our private citizens who feel moved to fight tyranny." To what extent the funding is actual republic credits and what is Leia's personal funds is debatable and probably quite a grey area. Do you really think a fanatic like Hux would get hung up on exactly where the money is coming from? Leia and republic are probably the same thing in his eyes.