Now you will experience the full power of the dark side

Just because you want to have something, doesn't mean you have the right to have it.

You remind me of the this guy http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34320413

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have the right to it WITHOUT PAYING!!!!!

Well, thank you for comparing me with a piece of human trash.

We're not talking about life saving medication here. We're talking about plastic pew pews.

Even with medication you don't have a right to it, but there are laws in place to prevent price gouging and profiteering.

You're comparing apples to, not even oranges but to shoelaces. Two entirely different subjects.

The more choice the customer gets, the better.

And to hell with all the legal bantacrap.

If they don't make it, someone will, that's the law of nature. No niche must remain un-occupied.

So if you create something, I'm well within my rights to take your stuff and profit from it?

There's no movie depicting what happened between ESB and ROTJ, or ANH and ESB, am I allowed to make one? They're not doing it after all.

Neah, it's a mentality I absolutely detest, I'm out.

This makes me worried for all the people selling acrylic range rulers and so forth, particularly if they include any of the rebel/scum/imperial logos etc. The fact that thse products probably don't violate IP rules (logos excepted), and aren't actually SOLD by FFG or Disney, probably won't stop them getting C&Ded, whether or not they are actually doing anything illegal.

It IS possible to come to agreements in these situations that allow the perfectly legitimate trader in receipt of an unfounded C&D to continue trading, as the case of Rusty and Co. showed, but it's got to be handled VERY carefully, and I suspect Disney would be a lot harder about it than WotC were. I'd also doubt (though IANAL) that what Space Rocks were doing was anywhere near as legitimate (i.e., legitimate work of parody, original character, produced under the Open Gaming License anyway) as Rusty.

The more choice the customer gets, the better.

And to hell with all the legal bantacrap.

If they don't make it, someone will, that's the law of nature. No niche must remain un-occupied.

So if you create something, I'm well within my rights to take your stuff and profit from it?

There's no movie depicting what happened between ESB and ROTJ, or ANH and ESB, am I allowed to make one? They're not doing it after all.

Neah, it's a mentality I absolutely detest, I'm out.

If community accepts it, and it is considered worth the time and money there's nothing bad about that.

with the likes of JarJar Abrams we might soon see fan made content overshadow the official cannon" that sucks.

If you make something and completely_utterly_ignore something it's your own business.

And if someone out there can make it, make it good, and make something you didn't care to make, he deserves a credit.

The more good things in the world the better.

as soon as FFG starts making good playmats, gets us e3 asteroids and beutiful stations, we'll buy it.

IF IT IS BETTER THAN SOME DUDE MANAGED TI WITHOUT INDUSTRIAL CAPACITIES

and if it is worse, then sucks to be a licelsed one.

best product > licensed product.

Definitely surprised that this one was so long in coming; definitely agree that it was the frigate that attracted attention.

Mel's probably fine for a while as long as he's not rolling with any ships featured in the films/tv shows.

Mickey Mouse became envious of this fantastic product ... and FFG too, of course

Dagonet, on 21 Dec 2015 - 01:29 AM, said:

Tokyogriz, on 21 Dec 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

Dagonet, on 21 Dec 2015 - 12:40 AM, said:

Just because you want to have something, doesn't mean you have the right to have it.

You remind me of the this guy http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34320413

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have the right to it WITHOUT PAYING!!!!!

Well, thank you for comparing me with a piece of human trash.

We're not talking about life saving medication here. We're talking about plastic pew pews.

Even with medication you don't have a right to it, but there are laws in place to prevent price gouging and profiteering.

You're comparing apples to, not even oranges but to shoelaces. Two entirely different subjects.

Your right they are certainly different in terms of real need.

But the underlying "LAW" that states you need to pay for what I "OWN" by legal right is the same. It actually illustrates the real outrageousness of the current IP laws. The law of Copyright cares less if its a plastic toy or life saving medicine. If you don't have money you cant have it.

I have spent a few thousand dollars on this game and do support x wing. But IP laws are out of control and corporations are going to make sure our children continue to choke on their ridiculous IP demands. In fact I think Disney wants IP laws to become indefinite instead of the current 70 years. That's plastic toys and life saving medicine folks.

I should say Medicine is 15 years or so I believe for generics to be allowed. But if possible corporations would extend this to forever if they could.

I should say Medicine is 15 years or so I believe for generics to be allowed. But if possible corporations would extend this to forever if they could.

Indeed - most medicines are covered by patent rather than copyright (being inventions/discoveries rather than creative works), and patents expire a LOT more quickly than copyrights (10 to 15 years after initial registration versus currently 70 years after the death of the creator) so conflating the two is perhaps a little disingenuous.

The Shkreli thing is interesting because Daraprim at the very least has been out of patent for decades, so any company that wanted to could make it in theory, as I understand it. I mean, it's a huge jerk move to bump the price 500x, but I'd be shocked if there isn't already a cheap generic version out there somewhere.

I'm surprised that so many people think it was the frigate that called the wrath of the Mouse down on Space Rocks given that places like Mel's Miniatures haven't been banhammered. Surely it's more likely to be the fact that they were explicitly making copies of FFG miniatures (and then breaking them apart and selling them) that's specifically dodgy and caused them to be singled out?

Can't say it's a massive surprise.

I was tempted to order one but I knew sooner or later they'd get some legal action taken against them.

This actually scares me for two reasons:

#1- Heroes of the Aturi Cluster - It's not a FFG or Disney property, could it be affected by being an infringement?

#2- Star Wars Fandom - 90% of what drove star wars for the past 30+ years since the original films was fan content. Is that now in danger?

They're not C&Ding Space Rocks for making Star Wars stuff. They're C&Ding them for selling it.

Not everything they produced was C&D worthy, so there's probably still some sort of business there, but the Neb B in particular was asking for the C&D beatdown. However who knows if the business will ever appear again.

Don't mess with the mouse !

I wouldn't be half surprised to see the Nebulon-B appear as an FFG product a couple years down the line alongside an ARGHKITTENS class cruiser.

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

Nothing wrong with IP.

If X doesn't give a ****, doesn't produce some piece of merchandise at all

and someone on the side fills the niche

it's good.

As long as nobody with the licence produces the asteroids, stations and so on, there's no real reason to DERP the ones that do.

The thing is unfortunately you have to protect your IP and be *seen* to be protecting it.

In this case SR were doing pretty good pieces but if you just let anyone use your imagery without permit or sanction then how do you stop someone doing something thats awful or you DONT think represents you in a good light if you've already set a precedent by allowing unlicensed recasts?

Essentially on a very basic level SR have jumped on the coattails of disney/ffg and used their R&D budget at zero cost to them.

What i'm saying is that as these were clearly casts of the FFG models then made into wrecks that FFG had fronted the cash to hire a designer and have the moulds tooled for a product they wanted to sell, space rocks at the very least have shortcutted doing their own design and nicked FFGs without paying for it. You can see how on a very basic level thats a bit cheeky.

As others have said the way to have gone about this would have been to have applied for a licence to make debris OR to have made 'generic' space debris etc.

I dont think in this day and age you can honestly expect it to be any other way. If i was buying a single GW land raider, making a rough mould and dropping out ten resin casts from it a day and selling them on i'd expect workshop to be sending me a C&D as well.

Even if FFG thought it was cool they HAVE to protect their IP to prevent a later incident when something isnt cool.

I know at GW when i was there we had to say no to some licence proposals that we thought were personally quite cool but allowing it would have complicated IP ownership or potentially have been seen to blur brands.

No offense at a personal level Gadge but GW is pretty much Evil Empire material.

That Neb-b was lovely, so from that perspective this is a shame. Sadly, somewhat inevitable given Disney/Lucasfilm plans for the Star Wars franchise.

All my sympathy is however reserved for those who ordered and paid for goods that they will not now receive. They are the real victims in this, and at Christmas that is a lot of money to lose.

The really awful thing is the strong suspicion that Space Rocks continued to make sales in the full knowledge that they would not be fulfilling those orders (hence the redaction of the dates). There is a word for that - Fraud.

I agree with the poster that urged those affected to notify their payment providers of the full circumstances, and let them pursue the vendor. Many credit cards provide protection against fraud, and if this was fraudulent trading, they will be best placed to knowwhat to do and how to do it.

Perhaps also, we as a community need to understand also that FFG/ Disney etc and their recent actions to better control Licensing and Distribution is not an "evil" empire building excercise, but actually protects us (the consumer) from these sorts of people just as much as it protects the company/s. FFG in particular invest a lot of effort in this community, and it is not good for anybody when this kind of thing happens (even if they have no direct involvement).

Like I said - I feel truly sorry for those who have lost out.

To some people, to others not but at the end of the day they are a big gaming company, same as FFG/Asmodee so you've got to expect them to act like businesses.

As for taking orders knowing they had a c&d

I dont know.

These things can happen pretty fast.

Back in the day we used to call the GW 40k campaign system 'total war' (and had been for years) and one day out of the blue electronic arts sent us a C&D claiming they owned the phrase 'total war'

We did point out it had been in common parlance since the 20s

But... it really wasnt worth the legal battle over a weekend event that made us perhaps 30k over a year so we just printed new rulespacks with a different name.

Fingers crossed PayPal/ebay will protect the buyers who have bought from SR.

To some people, to others not but at the end of the day they are a big gaming company, same as FFG/Asmodee so you've got to expect them to act like businesses.

As for taking orders knowing they had a c&d

I dont know.

These things can happen pretty fast.

Back in the day we used to call the GW 40k campaign system 'total war' (and had been for years) and one day out of the blue electronic arts sent us a C&D claiming they owned the phrase 'total war'

We did point out it had been in common parlance since the 20s

But... it really wasnt worth the legal battle over a weekend event that made us perhaps 30k over a year so we just printed new rulespacks with a different name.

I agree these things can happen fast, but the blanking out of the dates makes one very suspicious that in this case there is a time-lag when orders were being taken, or misleading information being given to customers.

I'm surprised it took them this long to get a C&D. As someone mentioned, if they had been buying Corvettes and turning them into wrecks on a one to one basis I doubt Disney would have objected. But they do appear to have made a mould from the original and used that to produce the wrecks.

For all those saying there is nothing wrong with that and IP sucks. Someone buys an FFG TIE fighter. makes a mould, casts a few and then the swarm you paid £66 for is up against one costing £11 plus mould making material I imagine you'ed be annoyed. (and yes I based those figures on 6 TIE swarm)

Also you could try asking Alex Davey if he would like to be paid for his work.

I'm surprised it took them this long to get a C&D. As someone mentioned, if they had been buying Corvettes and turning them into wrecks on a one to one basis I doubt Disney would have objected. But they do appear to have made a mould from the original and used that to produce the wrecks.

For all those saying there is nothing wrong with that and IP sucks. Someone buys an FFG TIE fighter. makes a mould, casts a few and then the swarm you paid £66 for is up against one costing £11 plus mould making material I imagine you'ed be annoyed. (and yes I based those figures on 6 TIE swarm)

Also you could try asking Alex Davey if he would like to be paid for his work.

First of all, why would you be annoyed if the guy across the table got his stuff cheaper (regardless of the means)?

Secondly, the example has little to do with the situation at hand, since to my knowledge these guys didn't sell anything competing with an offucial product.

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

But thats not the point, the point is that someone is profiting for free off someone elses development costs and the imagery they paid a ruckload to licence.

FFGs licence to make 'star wars models' would have cost them *millions*, for some one else to just take their hard work and make profit with zero outlay is a bit out of order.

Its like if i lived next to you and used your wifi connection because i couldnt be bothered to buy one. Sure no one *really* loses out but you'd be annoyed with me.

I'd be annoyed if i'd spent £70 quid on my swarm and the guy across from me had bad recasts with droopy wings.

Ot to take it to the ridiculous had made his TIES out of blu tac

Becasue it would make the game look toss.

What if they were high quality recasts, looking just as good if not better than the original?

Or what if they were FFG models lookng horrible due to various things? Between unfortunate repaints, stuff that broke and wasn't glued back properly and FFGs own sloppy quality on some models, in my gaming group we could field 1-2 full lists that look like they got scavenged from the bottom of a trash can.

thats not the point, the point is that someone is profiting for free off someone elses development costs and the imagery they paid a ruckload to licence.

FFGs licence to make 'star wars models' would have cost them *millions*, for some one else to just take their hard work and make profit with zero outlay is a bit out of order.

On the other hand, their business can be seen as furthering the visibility of the hobby (I fail to see how anyone benefits from less x-wing related products), they're providing a product/service customers want but FFG/Disney is not able/willing to make and their stuff causes next to no loss to FFG because they offer no similar products.