Makes me wonder how long before Mel's Miniatures gets a similar letter.

That's actually a pretty good, and worrying question.

I don't think it'll be long. I love Mel's stuff but it is, much as I hate to say it, infringement. What'll hurt the most is points 3-4 of the C&D.

I don't think it'll be long. I love Mel's stuff but it is, much as I hate to say it, infringement. What'll hurt the most is points 3-4 of the C&D.

And that's the point in all of this. The mail was cordial enough but I saw something similar (but also very different) happen to one of my clients a few years back and they ended up not only to repay everything that had made via a few bad choices, but the impact to them personally was huge. No one was going to take their word on what he had or hadn't sold and, due to the size of the corporation suing him and the skill of their litigators, he ended up having to pay whopping additional costs in terms of e-discovery and the like.

Disney might be typified by a mouse, but they are truly a sleeping lion that shouldn't be woken.

I have also seen other stuff that people have created for use with X-Wing and Armada (tokens & movement tools) that are obviously for those game but have been renamed (a stress token in an 'exclamation' token) so I'd be interested to know if that falls into any gray area or is still Disney-attention worthy?

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

If these are the peeps that usually have eBay listings for wrecked Corvettes, GR-75's and large ships like the Falcon and Decimator, I don't know as if I have a problem with this. Those wrecks were most likely an FFG model cut up and made wrecked then cast into a mold. Thinking that can be on the up and up.

It doesn't matter if someone purchased the licensed products, cut them up and then created something else. The second you turn around and attempt to sell those items (especially if you are using those names and have recognizable components) you have crossed the line. I'm sure these were nice people with great products but Space Rocks clearly was in the wrong by selling unlicensed products that someone else owns the rights to. It's unfortunate for everyone involved but you cannot blame Disney. If a company fails to enforce their copyrights and what not they risk losing them. Space Rocks took things too far.

Now if they bought cases of the ships and chopped up each ship into a wrecked state where each wreck would likely be a bit different from the last, it might be passable in the same way as people selling repaints. FFG & Disney were paid for the purchase of the orginal models.

I have also seen other stuff that people have created for use with X-Wing and Armada (tokens & movement tools) that are obviously for those game but have been renamed (a stress token in an 'exclamation' token) so I'd be interested to know if that falls into any gray area or is still Disney-attention worthy?

I don't think so because FFG does not sell acrylic stuff so there's no competing sales of their own items. I seem to recall reading about the acrylic stuff somewhere but can't think of it off the top of my head.

I have also seen other stuff that people have created for use with X-Wing and Armada (tokens & movement tools) that are obviously for those game but have been renamed (a stress token in an 'exclamation' token) so I'd be interested to know if that falls into any gray area or is still Disney-attention worthy?

Disney doesn't own FFG, and the various tokens that work with the game but don't have anything directly to do with Star Wars (pretty much all of them are more or less "Generic Sci-Fi" as far as I can tell) wouldn't be their problem, but FFG's. And while they might be within their rights to go after some elements (harder to justify for some tokens than others - a cloak or Extra Munitions token might be easier, range rulers and movement templates a tad tougher, focus and stress tokens harder still) they'd be foolish to do it. After market accessories aren't an area they compete in, so why antagonise the community?

I wonder if Disney is going to come after these products or just squeeze Space Rocks for all they are worth in fines. The debris field and space station are pretty nice, but i guess i am going to have to count the Xwing Neb frigate as a loss.

I have also seen other stuff that people have created for use with X-Wing and Armada (tokens & movement tools) that are obviously for those game but have been renamed (a stress token in an 'exclamation' token) so I'd be interested to know if that falls into any gray area or is still Disney-attention worthy?

Not really. They can't copyright or patent the dimensions of the range rulers. While some of the icons are close, they aren't the same. An eyeball is a generic image.

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

Nothing wrong with IP.

Why are the dates blacked out?

And did anyone receive product from these guys?

The UK has previously ruled against Games Workshop when they sued after market producers. In that case, because GW wasn't actively selling the pieces being sold by after market dealers, it wasn't infringing on their product. Should be interesting if this goes to court.

I think it might be pretty different legally:

The after market dealers involved with GW were selling products GW never made. These guys were selling products closely resembling stuff Disney has made.

Intellectual property is real and should be respected.

Yes it should. However, corporations should not be allowed to take protections too far. I don't believe that was happening here, but it is far too common.

The intact models of SW ships were a clear violation. They were direct copies of designs being sold. No question there.

The wreck models... An argument could be made about derivative works, but probably not a very good one, certainly not worth the effort.

The asteroids and debris (assuming there were no recognizable SW bits) should gave been fine. One of the things corporations should do in these cases (and I don't think they ever do, maybe there is a reason for that) is list the items they are complaining about. Asteroids, movement templates, tokens, etc... Are all perfectly fine, as long as you aren't directly copying a design, they shouldn't have had to close down completely, just stop selling the infringing items. But... Maybe there is more going on than we know about.

Why are the dates blacked out?

And did anyone receive product from these guys?

I did, way back when they first started making X-wing thingies (or at least when I first saw it pop up on eBay). I got the Rebel Transport, which was the only thing they had at the time. It got lost in the mail, and they sent a replacement as well as a set of their asteroids

It's as good a reason as any to just close up shop.

The redacting of the dates is peculiar.

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

Nothing wrong with IP.

If X doesn't give a ****, doesn't produce some piece of merchandise at all

and someone on the side fills the niche

it's good.

As long as nobody with the licence produces the asteroids, stations and so on, there's no real reason to DERP the ones that do.

This sucks for players who enjoy the game and want fun obstacles. FFG or Disney is unwilling to create this items but willing to prevent us from having them.

Greed wins as usual in the corporate world.

This sucks for players who enjoy the game and want fun obstacles. FFG or Disney is unwilling to create this items but willing to prevent us from having them.

Greed wins as usual in the corporate world.

Nonsense. How do you know Disney is unwilling? Space Rocks could've applied for a license to create such things. They didn't. It is not their property.

Defending your rights has nothing to do with greed, but everything with not losing them and having everybody run away with them.

Minor example: Bill Watterson not wanting any merchandise has meant he has forfeited any rights to Calvin and Hobbes outside of certain limited areas. Meaning you get those stickers of Calvin with an evil grin pissing. Which is totally against the spirit of Calvin and Hobbes. Had he even once authorized a t-shirt or something, he would've been able to stop it.

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

Nothing wrong with IP.

If X doesn't give a ****, doesn't produce some piece of merchandise at all

and someone on the side fills the niche

it's good.

As long as nobody with the licence produces the asteroids, stations and so on, there's no real reason to DERP the ones that do.

They can make asteroids and stations and wrecked ships what are compatible with X-Wing all day long. It's becomes a problem when they are using the likeness of something that is part of a copyrighted work. It there space station looks just like DS-9 or one of the asteroids has a giant space worm poking out of that looks just like the one from ESB that's clearly crossing the line.

Just because no one has a license to make a thing or someone with the license choose not to make a thing doesn't make that thing fair game for a third party to start making.

Pretty sure the nebulon b is what got them in trouble.

Just because you want to have something, doesn't mean you have the right to have it.

Just because you want to have something, doesn't mean you have the right to have it.

On the other hand, just because you want other people to not have something you yourself have no interest in having doesn't mean it's morally correct or justified.

Just because you want to have something, doesn't mean you have the right to have it.

You remind me of the this guy http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34320413

Just because you want something doesn't mean you have the right to it WITHOUT PAYING!!!!!

Intellectual Property is the bane of modern culture.

So X can create something, invest time and money in it to make it popular and a success and Y can coast along riding the coattails?

Nothing wrong with IP.

If X doesn't give a ****, doesn't produce some piece of merchandise at all

and someone on the side fills the niche

it's good.

As long as nobody with the licence produces the asteroids, stations and so on, there's no real reason to DERP the ones that do.

They can make asteroids and stations and wrecked ships what are compatible with X-Wing all day long. It's becomes a problem when they are using the likeness of something that is part of a copyrighted work. It there space station looks just like DS-9 or one of the asteroids has a giant space worm poking out of that looks just like the one from ESB that's clearly crossing the line.

Just because no one has a license to make a thing or someone with the license choose not to make a thing doesn't make that thing fair game for a third party to start making.

The more choice the customer gets, the better.

And to hell with all the legal bantacrap.

If they don't make it, someone will, that's the law of nature. No niche must remain un-occupied.