I see a lot of dual build Imp Star lists floating around which seem to be quite effective.

Just interested to see if anyone thinks a dual MC80 is viable or would you get more milage going with a single Mol Cal and various others.

Can fit 2 Mol Cals (Engine Techs, Home One, Defiance) with 1 Corvette(TRC) and 6 Awings in a list with Ackbar.

Seems semi decent.

Thoughts?

I actually want to try two mon cals, just don't have a second one yet. I think it's totally viable. I've been taking two ISDs without gunnery teams and they do just fine. Gunnery teams are a crutch.. ha

You need a lot of squadrons to bolster your firepower.

I actually want to try two mon cals, just don't have a second one yet. I think it's totally viable. I've been taking two ISDs without gunnery teams and they do just fine. Gunnery teams are a crutch.. ha

I'm not a pro at this, but I'd say it's only viable IF you run Ackbar. At this point the two less dice and the inability to use that massive side arc more than once a turn is... absolutely devastating to your ability to put damage down.

If you add the Corvette then it wouldn't be a dual build.

I think for 2 ships you are looking at 100+ points of fighters. In a rather basic game where I took my new toys I managed a pair of MC80 and MC30's so a few fighters as an afterthought is not going to give you the firepower from the squadrons that make up for the missing ships. In essence you have to look at the triangle of squadrons. A fleet with no squadrons, some squadrons and many squadrons.

Against a fleet with no squadrons your squadrons should be able to burn ships down fast, he is trading off the lack of squadrons with his ability to attack your ships. If your squadrons aren't removing ships or assisting in the removal of ships it will be a problem. Against a moderate Squadron list your opponent it trading off a small ship to throw in some squadrons. You burn the squadrons down and then get back to the task of getting those ships down. With wave 2 you have two choices, burn him down fast and hit him with more anti-squadron dice as you can manage or use intel and fly past his blocking ships leaving behind a token force to keep him off your back. 4 B-Wings, they keep up with a MC80, Jan Ors and 3 HWK's all play together nicely. Against a 2 ship full squadron list then you have a delay, fly past or wipe out strategy. The nice thing about intel is once those squadrons have delayed the other guys squadrons such that they will need orders to come back into the fight you can break off with Intel and have a turn of shooting.

You may have to rearrange things as to take what you have and maybe to adjust so that you win initiative or not as your liking.

I play in a meta where Demolisher is still a thing and as such playing second is a good chance of losing. So for me a 10-15 point bid is almost a requirement.

Yeah wouldn't consider running without Ackbar.

Thoughts on fighters noted...perhaps 6 A wings aren't sufficient.

Amanal - If you drop the corvette then is it perhaps better to save the 7 points off Home One. Don't know if using it on only one other Mon Cal is worth it. That gives you the points for the bid

I think I prefer Leading Shots to SW-7. I'm always rolling so many banks whith so many red dice being rolled, man I hate red dice!

I tend to be the guy that rolls 4 accuracy on 3 blue dice.

There's one player in my local scene who likes running 2 MC80s with like five YT-2400s and Han. I keep beating him.

I don't think two MC80s have the same potency that ISDs do. Lacking Gunnery teams, relying on Ackbar, less hull to rely on... there are more flaws with trying to run MC80s against what they do best (as carriers IMO) then it's worth.

I like one Defiance MC80 as a flagship:

• MC80, Defiance, (Dodonna), XX-9 turbolasers, ECM, Engine techs.

Its simple, manoeuvrable, survivable, and when you roll double crits it is plain hilarious.

However, the raw ability of the ship is not high enough to double up on. While this ship is nice, it's always the other ships in the list that carry the day - especially as using engine techs, you are not going to have squadron commands queued up.

There's one player in my local scene who likes running 2 MC80s with like five YT-2400s and Han. I keep beating him.

I don't think two MC80s have the same potency that ISDs do. Lacking Gunnery teams, relying on Ackbar, less hull to rely on... there are more flaws with trying to run MC80s against what they do best (as carriers IMO) then it's worth.

Yes. Plus, if they're running those squadrons, he won't have the upgrades that will make the MC80s potent enough to handle ISDs.

I like one Defiance MC80 as a flagship:

• MC80, Defiance, (Dodonna), XX-9 turbolasers, ECM, Engine techs.

Its simple, manoeuvrable, survivable, and when you roll double crits it is plain hilarious.

However, the raw ability of the ship is not high enough to double up on. While this ship is nice, it's always the other ships in the list that carry the day - especially as using engine techs, you are not going to have squadron commands queued up.

Wing Commander

I like one Defiance MC80 as a flagship:

• MC80, Defiance, (Dodonna), XX-9 turbolasers, ECM, Engine techs.

Its simple, manoeuvrable, survivable, and when you roll double crits it is plain hilarious.

However, the raw ability of the ship is not high enough to double up on. While this ship is nice, it's always the other ships in the list that carry the day - especially as using engine techs, you are not going to have squadron commands queued up.

Nah man, gotta take that Raymus Antilles.

Nav to full, gain token.

Squadron for 5, token for ET.

Nav to full, gain token,

CF for full + Defiance, token for ET.

Nav to full, gain token.

Do what you want, token for ET.

I'm seriously going to have to steal some of these ideas. Really sounds potentially painful for my opponents. Despite not believing that MC80's are worth their cost (especially not two in a list).

I think Raymus and Engine Techs are almost auto include on a single MC80 build. Ray is the man

I started out with Raymus on my MC80 lists, maybe I'll put him back in.

I started out with Raymus on my MC80 lists, maybe I'll put him back in.

The way I see it, if you're running a more balanced MC80, Raymus is a must. If you're focused on doing damage, Intel Officer.

What Norsehound said. Lack of gunnery teams and using Ackbar you will only get 2 Anti-ship salvoes per round (16 dice) whereas a dual ISD build would get 4 front arc salvos (32 dice)

Ackbar Triple AF2 with Gun teams will get you 6 broadsides per round (36 dice) plus lotsa room for squads.

What Norsehound said. Lack of gunnery teams and using Ackbar you will only get 2 Anti-ship salvoes per round (16 dice) whereas a dual ISD build would get 4 front arc salvos (32 dice)

Ackbar Triple AF2 with Gun teams will get you 6 broadsides per round (36 dice) plus lotsa room for squads.

Also while I really love the AF as a well rounded dependable ship, I find they can melt really quickly in Wave 2. One MC80 at least for me....more of a tank and with Home One is a bit of a force multiplyer.

I think Raymus and Engine Techs are almost auto include on a single MC80 build. Ray is the man

Engine techs are always an auto include along with ECM or Adv. Projectors and Leading shots too. "Make those Red Dice count"

The most important thing for any MC80 build or dual build is making sure you are winning the bid every time and you have missions that favor you.

I want to test Contested Outpost, Fleet Ambush, and Hyperspace assault with a dual build. I have a feeling fleet ambush and Hyperspace could be really really nasty.

After playing and watching:

• I don't think more than one MC80 is worth it, precisely because they cannot take gunnery teams. When you start taking multiples, the synergistic benefits are diminished (Home One, for instance), and you greatly reduce your firepower. The MC-80 is anti-synergistic with itself, in other words, so taking multiples means they perform worse than a singleton.
• On the flip side of the coin, I think there is the potential to build some exceptionally strong single MC-80 lists:
  • The Home One build is exceptionally useful to any fleet rolling out buckets of red dice. Keeping in mind the result distribution of red dice, once you are reliably firing 4+, you are very likely to get blanks. Converting blanks to accuracy is extra damage. Home One surrounded by whales or CR90s is a massive force multiplier.
  • Defiance becomes an interesting shepherd for a CR90 swarm, given the range of the ship as well. You can activate all the CR90s first and almost always throw out an extra black die. Even so, I like Home One more.
  • Independence is a very interesting squadron shepherd. The biggest flaw of the B-wing is that it's a super baller ship that is also super slow. Independence fixes that. You have to plan ahead, but I think there is real potential to properly shepherd around small to medium size B-wing crowds within a broadside build here, which could be terrifying.
  • Lastly, as others have said, running them relatively light works. The ship, on its own, functions. I think taking too many upgrades is actually kind of a trap. Engine Techs I love, but beyond that, what? One title? If you keep it cheap, it might be better than larding one up.

TL;DR: one good (I suspect we see at least some very high placing tourney lists built around synergy with a single MC-80), two or more bad.

I think Raymus and Engine Techs are almost auto include on a single MC80 build. Ray is the man

Engine techs are always an auto include along with ECM or Adv. Projectors and Leading shots too. "Make those Red Dice count"

The most important thing for any MC80 build or dual build is making sure you are winning the bid every time and you have missions that favor you.

I want to test Contested Outpost, Fleet Ambush, and Hyperspace assault with a dual build. I have a feeling fleet ambush and Hyperspace could be really really nasty.

hyperspace assault requires a small or medium ship

I think Raymus and Engine Techs are almost auto include on a single MC80 build. Ray is the man

Engine techs are always an auto include along with ECM or Adv. Projectors and Leading shots too. "Make those Red Dice count"

The most important thing for any MC80 build or dual build is making sure you are winning the bid every time and you have missions that favor you.

I want to test Contested Outpost, Fleet Ambush, and Hyperspace assault with a dual build. I have a feeling fleet ambush and Hyperspace could be really really nasty.

hyperspace assault requires a small or medium ship

Well it would be pretty awesome if they update that mission for Large bases. And you are right it's small and medium bases.

I think Raymus and Engine Techs are almost auto include on a single MC80 build. Ray is the man

Engine techs are always an auto include along with ECM or Adv. Projectors and Leading shots too. "Make those Red Dice count"

The most important thing for any MC80 build or dual build is making sure you are winning the bid every time and you have missions that favor you.

I want to test Contested Outpost, Fleet Ambush, and Hyperspace assault with a dual build. I have a feeling fleet ambush and Hyperspace could be really really nasty.

hyperspace assault requires a small or medium ship

Well it would be pretty awesome if they update that mission for Large bases. And you are right it's small and medium bases.

Of course, you could attempt to Hyperspace just 3 Independent Squadrons, but only if there is no Small or Medium ship in your force. If you have one, you must use it... If you don't have one, well... the up to 3 Squadrons may still apply.

We have not yet had a response as to wether this is 100% allowed or not...