To be able to attack a ship while engaged one of two things must be true

1 - Either you somehow are engaged but have no legal squadron targets (the situation addressed by the email)

2 - All of the squadrons you are engaged with have heavy.

Feel free to direct me to this explicit ruling.

IMO, there is a very distinct difference between a legal target and one you are engaged with. Even though you are engaged by these "phantom" targets and they do not have heavy they are not legal targets, fine. So this target is engaged, it may not move. Lets shoot. Search for targets. Only the ship and a bomber with heavy stands. I cannot reposition as I am engaged. So I can shoot the ship or the bomber. Must I shoot the bomber? No. The bomber has heavy. It is a special rule that allows me to shoot at ships or move even though Im engaged. My previous engagement with the phantom squads still stands so I cannot move; but I can shoot the ship as there are no other legal targets beside the bomber and I am NEVER forced to shoot a target with heavy when there is an alternate target. Period.

That's what it breaks down to for me. When an engaged squad has heavy, I can ALWAYS pick an alternate target regardless of what it is.

To be able to attack a ship while engaged one of two things must be true

1 - Either you somehow are engaged but have no legal squadron targets (the situation addressed by the email)

2 - All of the squadrons you are engaged with have heavy.

Feel free to direct me to this explicit ruling.

For point 1, Rules Reference, page 6 under engagement. Second bullet point. You must attack engaged squadrons if possible.

For point 2, the rules text for heavy and basic English language. The heavy squadron does not limit your shooting, other squadrons (such as the imaginary ones) do (unless there is a specific exception granted elsewhere, which the email does not provide since it is discussing the first point).

When an engaged squad has heavy, I can ALWAYS pick an alternate target regardless of what it is.

That is what my example about a heavy escort is about. You CAN be forced to target a heavy squadron.

When an engaged squad has heavy, I can ALWAYS pick an alternate target regardless of what it is.

That is what my example about a heavy escort is about. You CAN be forced to target a heavy squadron.

Yah I just reread that point, good find, but you get my interpretation but I understand where you're coming from on yours. I simply disagree.

For point 1, Rules Reference, page 6 under engagement. Second bullet point. You must attack engaged squadrons if possible.

For point 2, the rules text for heavy and basic English language. The heavy squadron does not limit your shooting, other squadrons (such as the imaginary ones) do (unless there is a specific exception granted elsewhere, which the email does not provide since it is discussing the first point).

So Heavy is a useless ability that is directly overridden by the RRG? If you are engaged you have to attack a squadron if possible. That's true, so Heavy must do absolutely nothing.

Or, Heavy overrides the RRG ruling.

Heavy only applies if there are no other non-Heavy Squadrons adding to engagement.

Yah I just reread that point, good find, but you get my interpretation but I understand where you're coming from on yours. I simply disagree.

Also note that his Heavy Escort situation was interesting - but not relevant to the examination of this situation.

Heavy only applies if there are no other Heavy Squadrons adding to engagement.

Err, no it doesn't. It applies in regards to the squadron that is Heavy, even if there are other squadrons around.

If I'm engaged by two of your squadrons (one Heavy, one not, no Escort) Heavy so applies. The Heavy squadron does not prevent me from attacking a ship, but I have to attack a squadron because I have a legal squadron target without Heavy. I can still choose to attack the a Heavy if I want.

Again though, this is pretty different from the situation we're actually discussing.

And again, this is all theoretical. I fully expect them to rule that you CAN ignore the heavies in this situation. I just think it is important for people to understand what the rules do actually say, so that they know exactly what rules they want to break. It makes interpreting things a lot easier later.

I am frankly really surprised that they said in the email that OTHER ships were valid targets. I was expecting it to be ruled that you treat the Instigator as the 2 imaginary squadrons, which would mean that you could target IT regardless, but not other ships.

Theres so much Im waiting for in the FAQ. I just got put onto the alternate tractor beam interpretation.

I am frankly really surprised that they said in the email that OTHER ships were valid targets. I was expecting it to be ruled that you treat the Instigator as the 2 imaginary squadrons, which would mean that you could target IT regardless, but not other ships.

I wasn't surprised either way, but I was interested to see what they were going to rule on that. I would have preferred if squadrons could only attack Instigator -but I see why it isn't that way, too.

I am frankly really surprised that they said in the email that OTHER ships were valid targets. I was expecting it to be ruled that you treat the Instigator as the 2 imaginary squadrons, which would mean that you could target IT regardless, but not other ships.

I wasn't surprised either way, but I was interested to see what they were going to rule on that. I would have preferred if squadrons could only attack Instigator -but I see why it isn't that way, too.

Of course, when they finally put it in the FAQ things may change. That has happened a lot in X-Wing. An email ruling lays out the strict RAW interpretation of something and then when they actually issue a FAQ they alter the interpretation to more precisely fit with what they want.

New FAQ.


Instigator

Squadrons can attack this ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron in the play area.

The intel keyword does not affect this ship’s ability.

So, reading that, if you are engaged by an actual enemy Squadron, that will effect your ability to Target Instigator. Heavy or not doesn't apply.

This is a brand new clarification, and thus, invalidates my previous stance. Until such time as we get further clarification, that's how I see it now.

Simplest way to explain it:

Simplest way to explain it:

You left out rhymer balls being able to attack ships at greater than distance one.

Other than that, I agree completely.

New FAQ. Instigator

Squadrons can attack this ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron in the play area.

The intel keyword does not affect this ship’s ability.

Curious. That answer actually leaves out some elements of the email. It doesn't specify whether you can attack OTHER ships.

Relevant new text from the FAQ, consolidated:

Q: Is a squadron with grit prevented from moving while engaged with two squadrons, one with heavy and one without heavy?

A: Yes

Q: If a squadron is at distance 1 of two enemy squadrons, one that it is engaged with and one that it is not engaged with because it is separated by an obstacle, does the original squadron have to attack the engaged squadron?

A: No. A squadron can attack another squadron at distance 1 regardless of whether it is technically engaged with that squadron.

Instigator
Squadrons can attack this ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron in the play area. The intel keyword does not affect this ship’s ability

New FAQ. Instigator

Squadrons can attack this ship if they are not engaged by an actual enemy squadron in the play area.

The intel keyword does not affect this ship’s ability.

So, reading that, if you are engaged by an actual enemy Squadron, that will effect your ability to Target Instigator. Heavy or not doesn't apply.

This is a brand new clarification, and thus, invalidates my previous stance. Until such time as we get further clarification, that's how I see it now.

I still don't actually get that inference myself. I see where you are coming from, but it just feels like Heavy, and what Heavy does to targeting ships was overlooked.

Simplest way to explain it:

Unfortunately this isn't any new information. This is just a different way if you expressing your opinion. It's certainly not any more official.

Good to have an official ruling on this. And as petty as it may seem, it feels realy good to have it ruled "my way" after having my opinion on this compared to "the stacking ships discussion" when I first expressed it

Wow, I'm away for a day and there's 3 new pages... with no new content.

Well, that's not quite right. There are two interesting points:

First, the Heavy+Escort scenario. I have to admit it caught me off-guard at first, and I'm still not 100% sure of what the correct answer would be (now that's one for the FAQ!), but it does have a fundamental difference from the original scenario which makes it impossible to compare: Heavy and Escort are both card effects of equal rank, while the "must attack a squadron if possible" rule is a lower-ranked effect as per The Golden Rules in the RRG.

So, in the original scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack the Heavy squadron (as it's the only valid target) rather than Instigator.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• As the effects contradict, The Golden Rules say the card effect effect prevails.

In the Escort+Heavy scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack one of the three squadrons rather than the ship.
• A card effect (Escort) says you cannot attack one of the two non-Escort squadrons.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• The Golden Rules establish that Escort and Heavy take precedence over Engagement, but say nothing about how they affect each other. In the absence of the Engagement rule (or other non-Heavy squadrons in the vicinity), there would be no contradiction at all, but in this case there is. Does Heavy or Escort take precedence over the other? I would've guessed Heavy (if the only legal target doesn't stop you from attacking a ship, well, go ahead then!), but the opposite can be argued (Engagement+Escort "outweigh" Heavy).

The second interesting point is the Grit ruling, but I'm real busy right now so I'll write my thoughts on it later

So, in the original scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack the Heavy squadron (as it's the only valid target) rather than Instigator.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• As the effects contradict, The Golden Rules say the card effect effect prevails.

This is the only point I've seen made in the whole thread that has not been countered with a response.

Wow, I'm away for a day and there's 3 new pages... with no new content.

Well, that's not quite right. There are two interesting points:

First, the Heavy+Escort scenario. I have to admit it caught me off-guard at first, and I'm still not 100% sure of what the correct answer would be (now that's one for the FAQ!), but it does have a fundamental difference from the original scenario which makes it impossible to compare: Heavy and Escort are both card effects of equal rank, while the "must attack a squadron if possible" rule is a lower-ranked effect as per The Golden Rules in the RRG.

So, in the original scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack the Heavy squadron (as it's the only valid target) rather than Instigator.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• As the effects contradict, The Golden Rules say the card effect effect prevails.

In the Escort+Heavy scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack one of the three squadrons rather than the ship.
• A card effect (Escort) says you cannot attack one of the two non-Escort squadrons.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• The Golden Rules establish that Escort and Heavy take precedence over Engagement, but say nothing about how they affect each other. In the absence of the Engagement rule (or other non-Heavy squadrons in the vicinity), there would be no contradiction at all, but in this case there is. Does Heavy or Escort take precedence over the other? I would've guessed Heavy (if the only legal target doesn't stop you from attacking a ship, well, go ahead then!), but the opposite can be argued (Engagement+Escort "outweigh" Heavy).

The second interesting point is the Grit ruling, but I'm real busy right now so I'll write my thoughts on it later

Grit seems pretty obvious to me.

Grit: (You are not prevented from moving while you are engaged by only 1 squadron.)

Heavy doesn't remove the status of being engaged, it just frees you to move in spite of being engaged.

So the question is: how many squadrons are you engaged by? 2. So grit doesn't free you even though one of the squadrons says my engaged status doesn't prevent you from moving--that status still exists.

Grit doesn't t let you move if you were engaged by 2 heavy squadrons either. What lets you move is that both are heavy.

Wow, I'm away for a day and there's 3 new pages... with no new content.

Well, that's not quite right. There are two interesting points:

First, the Heavy+Escort scenario. I have to admit it caught me off-guard at first, and I'm still not 100% sure of what the correct answer would be (now that's one for the FAQ!), but it does have a fundamental difference from the original scenario which makes it impossible to compare: Heavy and Escort are both card effects of equal rank, while the "must attack a squadron if possible" rule is a lower-ranked effect as per The Golden Rules in the RRG.

So, in the original scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack the Heavy squadron (as it's the only valid target) rather than Instigator.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• As the effects contradict, The Golden Rules say the card effect effect prevails.

In the Escort+Heavy scenario:

• A rule (Engagement) says you must attack one of the three squadrons rather than the ship.
• A card effect (Escort) says you cannot attack one of the two non-Escort squadrons.
• A card effect (Heavy) says you don't prevent the engaged squadron from attacking Instigator.
• The Golden Rules establish that Escort and Heavy take precedence over Engagement, but say nothing about how they affect each other. In the absence of the Engagement rule (or other non-Heavy squadrons in the vicinity), there would be no contradiction at all, but in this case there is. Does Heavy or Escort take precedence over the other? I would've guessed Heavy (if the only legal target doesn't stop you from attacking a ship, well, go ahead then!), but the opposite can be argued (Engagement+Escort "outweigh" Heavy).

The second interesting point is the Grit ruling, but I'm real busy right now so I'll write my thoughts on it later

Grit seems pretty obvious to me.

Grit: (You are not prevented from moving while you are engaged by only 1 squadron.)

Heavy doesn't remove the status of being engaged, it just frees you to move in spite of being engaged.

So the question is: how many squadrons are you engaged by? 2. So grit doesn't free you even though one of the squadrons says my engaged status doesn't prevent you from moving--that status still exists.

Grit doesn't t let you move if you were engaged by 2 heavy squadrons either. What lets you move is that both are heavy.

Yep. Heavy squadrons engage just like any other squadron. When it comes time to make relevant checks, that's when you apply the Heavy engagement modifier on relation to that squadron.