You know it is getting bad when I don't recall if I asked this. Well if I did I can't find the post so here goes.

I'm curious to your thoughts. If you collect most stuff like I have you have accumulated a fair amount of damage tokens. If not there's always inexpensive stones, etc out there.

So I'm thinking what if you saved the Damage Deck for Criticals only and used tokens or stones for damage.

That has two effects that I see. First all of the criticals are in the deck. None could be missed because it was applied as damage. But now the distribution has changed too and as you use the deck, if you're a card counter, you beging know what is left.

Of course this would require two slight rule changes. If you are called to flip a damage card face up you would need to draw a card. Also if you are flip one face down do you put it back or keep it. I'd say put it back that way if an ability says to randomly flip and existing damage up you would just draw another. Hey you ship is already damaged so maybe there are other things just waiting to fail.

What do you think?

You know it is getting bad when I don't recall if I asked this. Well if I did I can't find the post so here goes.

I'm curious to your thoughts. If you collect most stuff like I have you have accumulated a fair amount of damage tokens. If not there's always inexpensive stones, etc out there.

So I'm thinking what if you saved the Damage Deck for Criticals only and used tokens or stones for damage.

That has two effects that I see. First all of the criticals are in the deck. None could be missed because it was applied as damage. But now the distribution has changed too and as you use the deck, if you're a card counter, you beging know what is left.

Of course this would require two slight rule changes. If you are called to flip a damage card face up you would need to draw a card. Also if you are flip one face down do you put it back or keep it. I'd say put it back that way if an ability says to randomly flip and existing damage up you would just draw another. Hey you ship is already damaged so maybe there are other things just waiting to fail.

What do you think?

Weirdly enough I've been thinking along similar lines. A few months ago I started using dice as hit point counters and prefer them now. The dice are easy to read from a distance and does not require my opponent to have to ask how much hull a given ship has left.

Damage Card = Counter/Token

With that in mind there is no point to use something else as a counter as the cards already serve that function. Unless running through the damage deck is a possibility there isn't much point to using something else.

As for the practical use I don't see much issue to it. It may make a card counter's job a little harder but this game really doesn't reward that type of behavior too much EXCEPT when it reveals someone using an illegal damage deck. As for changing the distribution of cards in the DD that is unaltered. Except for that card counting which can only come as face up cards happen or as destroyed ships are removed any unknown card can be any card that is not yet known; if you know that two Direct Hit cards have been revealed then ANY unknown card could be one of the other five regardless of whether it is in play or in the deck. As cards are revealed the chances of seeing the same card drops as expected.

With this method you only need to use a card from the damage deck any time a face-up card is called for. However, once a card is shown it needs to remain in play even if it would be turned face down. This keeps the distribution accurate and while it may mean a ship has a known damage card with it anything that will flip a face down card chooses that randomly from all the damage dealt; having two tokens and a face-down card on Chewie when R2-D2 tells him to flip a damage means a 1/3 chance of turning the card you already know and a 2/3 chance of replacing a token with a card and then flipping that face-up.

Are you somehow running out of damage cards? Its so much easier to use damage cards as counters.

The reasons you state are entirely counter what the intent of using damage cards as counters is for.

On the subject of card counting you get put all damage cards from destroyed ships into a face up discard pile anyway so even if there was value in the practice of damage card counting your opponent could do it too

Since both damage decks are legal, I've combined both orig & new decks together so there are now plenty of damage cards. The markers are use to indicate ships (in the play area) with on-going critical effects on it. I've notice frequently people forget critical effects on their ship, so marking ship is a good reminder tool.

As StevenO said, "Dice Dice Baby"

I keep a D12 in my case specifically for the Decimator. I still take cards usually but can just stack them all up (except for crits) and show remaining Hull on the die. Will do the same for the Ghost.

A few D6's can be useful for Y-wings and a you'll need a D8 for the Falcon.

Generally just faster and easier than trying to count cards. Especially for an opponent.

With that in mind there is no point to use something else as a counter as the cards already serve that function.

How about the point of not having to use a token that's 4 inches long?

Are you somehow running out of damage cards? Its so much easier to use damage cards as counters.

The reasons you state are entirely counter what the intent of using damage cards as counters is for.

Nope, not running out. Not usually anyway, bugger games with one deck can come close.

I know the intent of using damage cards are as counters. I was trying to offer an alternative to that.

I like the Voidstate squad builder that allows you to prints shield and hull as individual images across the top of your ship. Print out your squad and use a pencil/pen to mark the non-crit damage.

I just thought that left more damage cards in the deck so more things could happen.

Nope, not running out. Not usually anyway, bugger games with one deck can come close.

You must be spreading the damage around a lot on ships with a ton of hull without blowing up any ships to have come close to running out of cards.

I love the idea but screws any abilities existing and future that flip damage cards. I think the idea of using them as damage markers was flawed from go but it's too late now unfortunately. I have a lot of hope for Xwing 2.0 when it ever happens to fix a lot of mechanics that screwed the pooch but have progressed so far now there is really no fixing them.

I love the idea but screws any abilities existing and future that flip damage cards. I think the idea of using them as damage markers was flawed from go but it's too late now unfortunately. I have a lot of hope for Xwing 2.0 when it ever happens to fix a lot of mechanics that screwed the pooch but have progressed so far now there is really no fixing them.

In those edge cases you could just deal one and flip it. If it's a direct hit just add another damage counter.

I fly Phantoms once in a while, and there's something satisfying about seeing someone draw 5 cards at once, then flipping the last few as people watch in suspense.

I personally find the existing method simpler. Less... piles.. that I have to manage. And when you start flipping up or down existing damage cards, I'm too dumb to figure all that out in the middle of a match

I think that is going to be the hardest counter to using tokens... there are several abilities that flip a facedown card. I'll keep playing with the deck, thanks...

I love the idea but screws any abilities existing and future that flip damage cards. I think the idea of using them as damage markers was flawed from go but it's too late now unfortunately. I have a lot of hope for Xwing 2.0 when it ever happens to fix a lot of mechanics that screwed the pooch but have progressed so far now there is really no fixing them.

I addressed this in the original post. Draw card and remove a token if you need to flip one face up. Discard the card and draw a token if you need to flip it face up.

Sorry I wasn't very clear.

I can see the utility for cases where space is really limited, but the extra complication with cards that flip doesn't seem worth it unless you're actually house ruling the way damage works so that you don't have to keep the cards around.

I might, though, throw a couple of numbered dice in my kit so if I'm running out of space in a tournament I can stack the damage cards together and just track how many there are with the die.

This has been discussed amongst the Vassal community a bit.

I'm no math guy but as I understand it, the conclusion was that dealing the cards or not does not change the percentage chance of drawing a certain type of crit or "allow for more possibilities." I think it simply boils down to the fact that there's a 1/33 chance to draw a card when you draw your first crit, a 1/32 for the second and so on regardless of how many are face down elsewhere on the table. You've just altered the "location" of where the card is drawn.

That said, I think it's bad form for a lot of reasons in person and that its a bad habit to get into. First, as was mentioned, there are a small number of abilities where you randomly choose crit cards that are face down in front of a ship (R2D2 crew, Colzet) and more will probably be added. That ship pool needs to have the cards it was dealt, since those cards can be flipped down and then flipped up again. You can't simply just keep drawing a "new random card" from the deck each time those abilities proc. The second reason is that drawing the top card for a crit allows for the perception of easier manipulation of the deck, not that I tend to think most people play this way, but in a competitive setting I'd ask that my opponent draws all damage cards.

I'll add that while it might seem simpler, it's not accepted practice and has the potential for confusion, especially when combined with the abilities mentioned since you then end up creating your own rules to handle those that relate to the damage deck which can be frustrating and isn't fair to your opponent.

I understand that dice make it easier to see how much damage, and a I've lost track myself sometimes, but imo, that's something you should do in addition to the cards, not instead of. I'll add that FFG had a chance to do away with damage cards in armada and go to a different system, but they chose not to, so there may be more behind it (like maybe continuing to design abilities that relate to it?).

I think that is going to be the hardest counter to using tokens... there are several abilities that flip a facedown card. I'll keep playing with the deck, thanks...

Lt. Colzet prefers you to use damage cards. He wants to see what's on the back of them.

I love the idea but screws any abilities existing and future that flip damage cards. I think the idea of using them as damage markers was flawed from go but it's too late now unfortunately. I have a lot of hope for Xwing 2.0 when it ever happens to fix a lot of mechanics that screwed the pooch but have progressed so far now there is really no fixing them.

I addressed this in the original post. Draw card and remove a token if you need to flip one face up. Discard the card and draw a token if you need to flip it face up.

Sorry I wasn't very clear.

Would you pick the same card up if say Chewbacca flipped it down and then say (drawing a blank on which pilot) flipped it back up? The new cards are pretty much one shot deals anyway so knowing there is a specific one there you want to flip is an advantage. It's fringe I know but I do like knowing what is there if I have acquired that knowledge. You might rotate out a damage card that makes a difference for a dud or vice versa. Again just playing devil's advocate as there are only enough pilots that can be counted on one hand that it would matter to.

Alex and Killerbeard said it better lol

Casual play, sure. What ever floats your boat.

The simple fact is if you don't use the damage deck as outlined in the rules, you are cheating. Two decks merged together? Cheating. One deck from the base set and one set from the new one? Cheating.

The game is designed around using the deck to track damage, and deal random critical effects. Not drawing out of the deck means you are artificially changing what critical will be dealt next. Malicious or not, it's not OK for play in a tournament or with a stranger at your local game store.

Man. This sounds a bit rough when I proof-read it.

Cheating.

When I am playing with my kids, we leave the damage deck out, and just use shield tokens for the full health of each ship (eg a z-95 gets 4 shields). When they are gone, it is dead. We simply count all critical hits as double damage. Simpler, although it feels weird at tournements with only a few shield cards on each ship.

So, when Leebo selects the best card to get, then flips it down (put it back in the stack), and Colzet flips it back up, suddenly you get a direct hit?

Or, how does this system interact with Maarek and Saboteur or Colzet?

I'll stick with the cards I guess, too fiddly for my taste, having to keep tokens around as well.

No because damage cards can be flipped. Both sides can be flipped from face down to face up such as Rexlar Brath or can be flipped from face up to face down such as thrust control fire.

Now if you are playing a large game and are running out of cards you can always shuffle the discarded cards (from destroyed ships or abilities such as determination) and make a new deck. However the rule goes if the card deck is completely exhausted then every critical hit is treated as a direct hit.

With that in mind there is no point to use something else as a counter as the cards already serve that function.

How about the point of not having to use a token that's 4 inches long?

There may be something there but once a ship gets a card that is no longer all that valid. Depending on the size/type of tokens used you can run into issues using them. IF dice were used I wouldn't recommend anything higher than a d6 to represent unknown card as everything above that becomes increasingly unstable and easier to accidentally turn.

Since both damage decks are legal, I've combined both orig & new decks together so there are now plenty of damage cards. The markers are use to indicate ships (in the play area) with on-going critical effects on it. I've notice frequently people forget critical effects on their ship, so marking ship is a good reminder tool.

NO!!!!! Do NOT mix two damage decks! If the same deck type is used it may not mess up the expected outcome of the first card drawn/revealed but it messes up the chances of every card after that. If you see a two-of when using 33 cards you know you've only got a 1/how ever many cards are unrevealed of seeing its mate but if you mix two decks you've now got a 3/whatever chance of seeing another copy. Never mix damage decks.

While I am fine with the idea of using counters to represent unknown damage cards once a damage card is known it remains known until such a time that it ends up in the discard pile and is reshuffled to create a new damage deck. Any time you look at a card you need to take it from the deck and then it will behave like the card should; there is no "turning a card face down returns it to the damage deck allowing another card to be drawn if that card is again revealed" bu[[$hit.