I think somebody's upset cause they're not getting the toy they wanted for X-Mas.

Just buying the ones you want. Imagine just being able to buy the things you want without them being bundled with other, very expensive items.

What a world that would be.

It would be a world where everything was cost prohibitive to buy. $6 each for upgrade cards, $20 for the ship minis, $10 apiece for pilot cards. At every stage from concept to retail there are logistical issues that drive up the price of a retail item. By packaging each individual component separately, each individual component has to bear the burden of those costs. By grouping a bunch of components together, a lot of those costs can be spread out, reducing the price significantly. The trick is to group them in a way that will be easiest and most satisfying for the final customer base, and FFG has done that just fine.

I am done posting. Good sirs

*Tips cowl*

m'poster

In this moment I am euphoric: not because I am blessed by some phony all powerful Force, but because I am enlightened by my own entitlement.

Dear lord.

Go after Wizkids or WOTC. Hell, even Games Workshop. FFG is so far from being this evil boogyman you are trying to paint them to be.

And the only way to have a bigger playerbase would to be to go full on Magic the Gathering. I have a good sized playerbase in my area.

Report button is in your bottom right corner: spam

MTG... Not even once.

I assume by "cliff notes" you mean "notes that make you feel like you're scaling a cliff"

jesus that's a lot of text

Why do you keep posting new topics? This is the third. One will do.

I suspect he works for Wizkids and is trying to sabotage FFG.

It would be a world where everything was cost prohibitive to buy. $6 each for upgrade cards, $20 for the ship minis, $10 apiece for pilot cards. At every stage from concept to retail there are logistical issues that drive up the price of a retail item. By packaging each individual component separately, each individual component has to bear the burden of those costs. By grouping a bunch of components together, a lot of those costs can be spread out, reducing the price significantly. The trick is to group them in a way that will be easiest and most satisfying for the final customer base, and FFG has done that just fine.

Ah, see, people SAY this, but no one can prove it. It's all just conjecture. It's like when someone says "FFG could provide upgrade cards for cheap!" and all the forumites jump on them saying "Nuh uh! FFG would go out of business!"

You don't know how that would impact the cost of cards. Neither do I. And neither of us know if FFG could afford it. Some people seem to think FFG is sailing pretty close to the wind and that the profit margins on their X Wing products are so slim even the smallest discount would cause them to lose the Star Wars contract. I personally think there's a lot more cream in their profit margin than that. Of course, no one (apart from FFG's accountants) actually KNOWS so there's no point wasting screen space talking about prices and how it would affect FFGs bottom line.

All I'm saying is it would be nice to just be able to buy the things I want* without having them bundled with other, expensive things that I don't. Maybe others don't think that would be nice. Maybe they LIKE the rigid inflexibility of the bundling model. Who knows, it takes all sorts right?

* - For a reasonable price. I didn't think I needed to point out the obvious, but apparently I do.

:lol:

You can buy the Raider new for less than $70...

This kind of bitching really is pointless. This game doesn't even approach the cost you would pay for other tabletop war games.

You have to assemble and paint this thing. $157 msrp, Maybe you can get 10-20%

This represents 10% of what you have to buy to field a Warhammer army.

The Rulebook costs $85. And you have to buy another rulebook specific to the army you choose for $58 each.

MTG... Not even once.

I liked this, but I play MtG...

The Rulebook costs $85. And you have to buy another rulebook specific to the army you choose for $58 each.

Right, and if I want to buy ten Intereptors and give them all Autothrusters it costs me $249.50

Conversely, 10 Guardsmen and any upgrade I choose to give them costs me $70

See, it's easy to compare different games to come up with a favourable comparison.

I MUCH prefer the armylist + roster way of building forces, as used in Kings of War, SAGA, Hail Caesar, and of course GW games (and frankly, most other games), as opposed to the mini-deck building required in X Wing. Of course, $50-$60 for the rules for a small skirmish game with less than half a dozen models per side is very expensive, and having a handful of cards instead is quite reasonable.

But in a game using hundreds of models per side, a $50-$60 rulebook is quite reasonable, and having hundreds and hundreds of cards on the table would be an impossibility.

It's all a question of scale, and you don't do yourself or your argument any favours by ignoring that scale and cherry-picking your comparisons to try and make some kind of point.

And what is that point? That X Wing is cheap? Or that 40K is expensive? I recently bought two warbands and the rulebook for Saga, for $150. That's 100 models and all the rules and upgrades associated with them. Hell, I can play solitaire with a pack of cards I bought for less than a dollar.

Cross range and cross game comparisons are pointless.

At the end of the day, no matter how expensive other game systems are, I would STILL like to be able to buy just the items I want, without them being bundled with other, expensive items that I don't want. As a customer, that would make me very happy.

Wouldn't you like that too? I think we'd ALL like that.

Of course, the tinfoil hat brigade is convinced it would be the death-knell of X Wing as we know it, and will no doubt respond with much wailing and gnashing of teeth about prices rising an FFG losing the Star Wars contract and how they're happy to pay for all the extra rubbish to get what they want since it means X Wing will continue to thrive.

Which is of course, all mere speculation on their part. But more power to them, I guess. It takes all sorts, after all.

The Rulebook costs $85. And you have to buy another rulebook specific to the army you choose for $58 each.

Right, and if I want to buy ten Intereptors and give them all Autothrusters it costs me $249.50

Conversely, 10 Guardsmen and any upgrade I choose to give them costs me $70

The squints give you at least 2 separate lists; the Starviper's give you a third (fielding only generics and not accounting for the other pilots/upgrades). The guardsmen give you less than 1/10th of a full list. This isn't even close to a reasonable comparison.

I understand your frustration at the bundling system. It is obnoxious; I hate having to buy multiple t70s to get the IA--and one per blister is worse than autorthrusters or TLT. But let's not get silly in our comparisons. The bundling system works if you want everything. If you don't, sometimes you have to pick and choose. If you really want to buy a la carte a number of third part websites can provide that service for you.

I understand your frustration at the bundling system. It is obnoxious; I hate having to buy multiple...

That's all I'm looking for.

You can get 5 packs of Imperial Aces and 5 starvipers for $145 at online retailers like coolstuff. You'll also get free shipping if your cart is over 100 bucks.

Gamesworkshop does not allow their stuff to be sold as easily from online retailers, you have to request individual price lists from them. GW decided that online retailers can't include their products on their pages for some reason.

Why would you want that many Interceptors? This isn't the type of game you need huge forces. So it is silly!

A single pack of Aces and 1 Interceptor pack is all you need to run the competitive 3 Interceptor list. And Starvipers aren't exactly cost efficient, but you could still fit 2 in a list and not feel ripped off.

You can get 5 packs of Imperial Aces and 5 starvipers for $145 at online retailers like coolstuff. You'll also get free shipping if your cart is over 100 bucks.

Gamesworkshop does not allow their stuff to be sold as easily from online retailers, you have to request individual price lists from them. GW decided that online retailers can't include their products on their pages for some reason.

Why would you want that many Interceptors? This isn't the type of game you need huge forces. So it is silly!

A single pack of Aces and 1 Interceptor pack is all you need to run the competitive 3 Interceptor list. And Starvipers aren't exactly cost efficient, but you could still fit 2 in a list and not feel ripped off.

I can buy a deck of playing cards for less than a dollar, and play way more games with it than I can with the X Wing core set.

This does not mean that X Wing is overpriced. It is a different game.

Similarly, 40K and X Wing are different games and a comparison between them is utterly meaningless.

Regardless of their comparative prices, I would STILL like to buy the items I want, without them being bundled with other, expensive items that I DON'T want. Again, I think we'd ALL want that, wouldn't we?

TL DR; OP says raider and/or aces/veterans packs are hurting the game because you are "forced" to buy them, making FFG "teh evilist cohumpany on urth". what a joke.

All these things are just like, your opinion, man.

You can get 5 packs of Imperial Aces and 5 starvipers for $145 at online retailers like coolstuff. You'll also get free shipping if your cart is over 100 bucks.

Gamesworkshop does not allow their stuff to be sold as easily from online retailers, you have to request individual price lists from them. GW decided that online retailers can't include their products on their pages for some reason.

Why would you want that many Interceptors? This isn't the type of game you need huge forces. So it is silly!

A single pack of Aces and 1 Interceptor pack is all you need to run the competitive 3 Interceptor list. And Starvipers aren't exactly cost efficient, but you could still fit 2 in a list and not feel ripped off.

I can buy a deck of playing cards for less than a dollar, and play way more games with it than I can with the X Wing core set.

This does not mean that X Wing is overpriced. It is a different game.

Similarly, 40K and X Wing are different games and a comparison between them is utterly meaningless.

Regardless of their comparative prices, I would STILL like to buy the items I want, without them being bundled with other, expensive items that I DON'T want. Again, I think we'd ALL want that, wouldn't we?

They are both tabletop miniature games that involve strategery and list building, your opinion is wrong!

A few days ago I watched FFG take my favorite ship (the Defender) from vyable if hard to play to excellent with multiple builds.

Their on-the-fly game balancing surpasses any game I have ever played. Heck, WH40k you had to wait years for a new fixed rulebook to come out, and then for that you had to pay for it separately.

Here they package the fixes monthly with extra sets of ships for you to enjoy them on.

So yeah, I dunno. I'm just not seeing your argument.

(Have you tried the card trade thread? Or buying the cards online? It may be cheaper if that's your beef.)

There are so manny players in my area.

FFG is well aware of the upsides and downsides of their business model.

Personally I feel sets like aces and veterans are great products to recommend to new players. They are a better value than the blisters and have the benefit a year or two of meta development.

Threads like this take entirely the wrong tone. It is nearly impossible to get a miniatures game balanced from the initial release. any way I would digress into insults but I already got a waring for asking if someone was butt hurt.

Spoiler ****** Star Wars movie spoiler...big do not hit link unless you have watched movie.

so this is how members treat others who they disagree with ..Wow.... you can have your "community""

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=b5iaz7&s=9#.VnV7bMtIiUk

Star Wars movie spoiler...big do not hit link unless you have watched movie.