I read your posts fully.

I can see why you're frustrated that upgrade cards aren't included with non-redundant/duplicative releases like the TIE Inquisitor.

I guess an analogy is if you bought a copy of Fallout 4, then they released a patch with fixes that only came with a separate DLC.

I can see how that's frustrating and I'd be lying if I said I didn't wish for those upgrade cards to come free.

But. And this is a big but. You're making it sound like X-wing is some life-saving drug. FFG isn't a pharmaceutical company that is price-gouging impoverished orphans for something they need.

X-wing is a hobby that we are choosing to pay for. If someone is making "significant sacrifices" and robbing houses to play X-wing, FFG is the last to blame. That person has serious underlying issues unrelated to the price of a Raider.

If it's too expensive, then there are other hobbies that you can invest in. I'm not sure what the big deal is. Do you scream at every car company that they're making better car models every year and actually charging people for those new cars?

I'll leave you with this thought. Are you not being a tad greedy yourself? You want more toys for cheaper without a care for FFG's profit-loss margin. FFG has bills to pay t0o, and as opposed to it being a hobby, making X-wing profitable and keeping it alive is their job.

*******

I will bother the community no further with this after this final statement. I am not a person wanting to become a saint of lost causes after-all Play on players.

******

First, I appreciate your thoughtful response. I will be going to bed after this. Imagine tons of errors in the posts and apologize a head of time. As another writer mentioned... and I answered, "l am experiencing writer's remorse over the wasted time on is." However, please indulge me if you will one final time before I go to bed with this final thought/aurgument at why this should matter to YOU absolutely regardless of money and ship assembled poorly. FF practices of making money should be highly encouraged as incentive is the great engine of creativity. However, I strongly believe that their greed drove away, and kept away enough players to make up for more ethical practices by far...and more importantly, in doing so robbed YOU of a much larger player pool in your local areas.

My point is the unbridled part. I want them to make lots of money because I want there to be an incentive for them. I am a die hard capitalist. My favorite book is The Commanding Heights. I have read The Economists almost every week for the last 15 or so years. Don't let my username, which I realize now is a problem making these arguments, fool you. I am a ww2 buff and since the soviets won the war I took who was possibly their best commanders name as a username. Brilliant combined arms tactician. Studied him in the War College. He died before the end of the war so he didn't get the fanfare of others and is largely forgotten. Saved a lot of American lives and maybe some Germans if war wasn't won by the time the bomb was dropped. We were planning on using it there first.

Their is a point were the corporation justs starts unfair practices. Yeah only people playing epic should buy the raider. Their should be no unfair incentive granted to epic players than us other players. We are loyal customers. If epic can stand on its own two feet great but it doesn't deserve a bailout from us, the regular X-wing players.

Since I have no money problems the argument of being selfish might not apply. I am honestly concerned for others by making this post. I have real gold plated coins for my games, so seriously money is not the issue. This last announcement has shown that they are doing this sort of price gouging on purpose on people who would have never dreamed going in that they would likely start this practice. The early adopters get hammered. the consumer in many cases is not making an informed economic choice as to the reality of the cost of the game. So many have quit because of this problem. They think that Tie advanced is competitive and learn that it isn't and all I am saying is throw some cardboard at the people who put their faith in the company.

Tie this cardboard, if you will, to items that will legitimately add to their collections in meaningful ways. You actual keep customers, the scene thrives, the collection grows, the meta grows, and people don't feel duped.

They can still make a ton of money and still not give people crooked ships (I don't personally care about the money, but all the time as it takes years getting upgraded pimped out parts extra and I spend too much time rebuking FF crooked stuff and attempting to fix it). That would cost them .25 per ship at most for the slow down I am guessing. Pass it on to us so our ships look good. The upgrade cards are preventing people from entering the game in a much larger way because they give up. As smart as you think FF might be, I am guessing here, but ai would bet big, big money that the price and demand curves would have shaken out much better by meeting the consumer at least half way on my requests. Given I am not privy to their marketing research, I obviously don't know, but I would also bet very little was spent on marketing research. I think they would have been more successful if all the people who got out over a few cards and some of the shenanigans, who have been better, more long term consumers. You have the toe dippers, collectors, and the competitive people. I have talked to many competitive people who switched games when them became more like Gamesworkshop. It is a small sample of 20-30 people but hearing their stories kept me out of the game forever. Not because of money but because of time. I had no idea the true extent of the egregiousness of their tomfoolery until I got in and I don't dip a toes. I soon discovered the time was more of an issue than the money due to how fast and how much I acquired.

Spending $500 dollars and looking around for cards that I discovered were only in the Epic stuff was annoying and I feel cheated. Not because I can't afford them, but because that is just BS and I know others far less well off than me are frustrated. This forum is for the diehards so I am not preaching to to many people who will listen here. They like me are in no matter the costs, but there are a ton of people on the sidelines and I now know why. Their being on the sidelines not playing, reducing the pool of available players pisses me off. It is my opinion they are in the sideline because of fantasy flights business practice and fantasy flight's greed actual cost them money. Fewer players spending more money vs more player spending less. That is the one selfish element to all this. FF has robbed me of a much larger base of players because so many have heard it is pay to play, and so many have quit, and so many are afraid of trying it and liking it because they might get hooked into a pay for play game. This goes for Armada as well.

When you quit, can I have your stuff?

Can we keep this written diatribe to one post please? Reposting will not strenghten your argument. All that needed to be said was already posted in your original post.

I am done posting. Good sirs

I am done posting. Good sirs

*Tips cowl*

m'poster

If the Tie advanced and the c3po card were essential to a competitive list then I would agree with you but they are not. Every other ship is under 30 dollars. Most under 15.

Considering how often FFG reacts to making every ship viable I disagree with you that they are greedy or that it is cost prohibitive to play.

It IS very expensive if you want to run every list possible.... but quite inexpensive by mini standards to be competitive

see my post in the other thread

zerotc, on 18 Dec 2015 - 02:03 AM, said:

ColGeneralVatutin, on 18 Dec 2015 - 01:49 AM, said:

@Zerotc: Now the rest of your aurgument is a real aurgument with real points.

My point is the unbridled part. I want them to make lots of money because I want there to be an incentive. Don't let my username, which I realize now is a problem making these arguments, fool you. I am a ww2 buff and since the soviets won the war I took who was possibly their best commanders name as a username. Brilliant combined arms tactician. Studied him in the War College. He died before the end of the war so h didn't get the fanfare of others and is largely forgotten.

Their is a point were the corporation justs starts unfair practices. Yea only people playing epic should buy the raider. Their should be no unfair incentive granted to epic players than us other players. If epic can stand on its own two feet it doesn't deserve a bailout from us the regular X-wing players. Thank you for the second part of your post.

**************** zerotc writes:

Right, but the Tantive's C3PO is being given away in a few months at Store Championships. The Gozanti's upgrades are hardly necessary for competitive lists. That leaves the Rebel Transport and the Raider. And those are only necessary if you choose to run lists that are reliant on those upgrades. You have thousands upon thousands of combinations that are competitive.

That's also two ships out of what feels like 50+. Does FFG really deserve all this vitriol? I come from a Warhammer 40K background. Games Workshop deserves that vitriol. FFG certainly does not when you look at the whole picture if you ask me.

It should also be noted that a Raider gives 4 copies of the TIE Advanced title and comes with a TIE Advanced ship itself. Even if you're not selling some of those upgrades (which I probably will end up doing myself) or splitting the Raider with a friend, I view the breakdown as $15 for the included TIE Adv, $15 for upgrade cards ($5 to upgrade 3 additional TIE Advanced). That leaves $70 for a beautiful ship. Still expensive, yes. But relative to a Decimator in terms of material, it seems fair.

**************************

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Zerotc is right. I stand corrected. Move along.... this is no longer the post you seek---unless you want to look back and see how I got my ass kicked in the aurgument and bring it up everytime I post something positive about FF in the future to make me remember my place.

Is this some sort of a stress check to gauge how many posts does it take to call forth the almighty banhammer?

Ah, I got it!

He wants the OMFG OP Stresshog, OMFG OP Poe with regen-droid, and the droids are in the transport!

I hate the look of that clam-**** myself, so i simply BOUGHT the cards.

for super-cheap. But it was long before they became OP xD

And as much as I want to agree with the fact that some of the models are extremely expensive, especially if you wanna upgrade JUST the Tie Advanced, I was able to get the Raider for 52 dollars from Barnes and Noble, I even shared the info for people to attempt to jump on that as well. The fact is there are deals to be found for all the ships, amazon, B&N, MM (I haven't tried this site yet, still iffy on it) but the fact remains if people don't want to play it, they simply wont spend the money, and of fucken course its pay to play, its a freaken miniature game. You dont hear people crying on Warhammer 40K about prices, which, btww, are like 5 times the cost as FFG X-Wing, AND to top it off, they arnt even pre painted.

The way FFG bundles some of their cards is like car manufacturers only providing new wiper blades with a whole new car.

It's just expensive and inconvenient, and does nothing to improve customer morale.

The way FFG bundles some of their cards is like car manufacturers only providing new wiper blades with a whole new car.

It's just expensive and inconvenient, and does nothing to improve customer morale.

As opposed to buying 50 boxes of wiper blades in the hope of getting the two that fit your car.

so? whats wrong with more players? and its tooo early in the morn to read that novel you posted..just saying...

Because God knows X-Wing struggles to attract new players.

I hate this game and everything it stands for. FFG robbed me of playing a game they designed and sell to me because of how they sell it to me. It's like when I buy a car; the seller ALWAYS gives me free repairs and even shines it with his cat. What's up with that FFG? Can't you just give me all your new products because I'm super rad and stuff? I bought, like, an X-Wing once and now you FORCE me to buy the new core set? Just give it to me!!!!

The way FFG bundles some of their cards is like car manufacturers only providing new wiper blades with a whole new car.

It's just expensive and inconvenient, and does nothing to improve customer morale.

As opposed to buying 50 boxes of wiper blades in the hope of getting the two that fit your car.

OR!

Just buying the ones you want. Imagine just being able to buy the things you want without them being bundled with other, very expensive items.

What a world that would be.

And as much as I want to agree with the fact that some of the models are extremely expensive, especially if you wanna upgrade JUST the Tie Advanced, I was able to get the Raider for 52 dollars from Barnes and Noble, I even shared the info for people to attempt to jump on that as well. The fact is there are deals to be found for all the ships, amazon, B&N, MM (I haven't tried this site yet, still iffy on it) but the fact remains if people don't want to play it, they simply wont spend the money, and of fucken course its pay to play, its a freaken miniature game. You dont hear people crying on Warhammer 40K about prices, which, btww, are like 5 times the cost as FFG X-Wing, AND to top it off, they arnt even pre painted.

Sometimes I just hate people from US for all the options you have out there.

It is just so hard to be a nerd in Poland.

I pity anyone who is strongly against buying multiple ships. I pity them because they have never basked in the glory of Epic play.

The way FFG bundles some of their cards is like car manufacturers only providing new wiper blades with a whole new car.

It's just expensive and inconvenient, and does nothing to improve customer morale.

That's only true if you don't get any use out of the new car.

If you're happy with the new, clean windshield of your old motor and are also driving the new one for fun every other day as well however, you probably appreciate it.

I pity anyone who is strongly against buying multiple ships. I pity them because they have never basked in the glory of Epic play.

you mean:

also, and (not! directed at trusty!) strongly related to the title and keeping this thread alive:

The way FFG bundles some of their cards is like car manufacturers only providing new wiper blades with a whole new car.

It's just expensive and inconvenient, and does nothing to improve customer morale.

That's only true if you don't get any use out of the new car.

If you're happy with the new, clean windshield of your old motor and are also driving the new one for fun every other day as well however, you probably appreciate it.

Absolutely true.

But wouldn't it be nice if I could just buy the new car for it's own sake, and the wiper separately when I want them?

I mean it gets a bit tedious. New floor mats? A new car. New gear shifter? New car. Pretty soon you've got a sizeable collection of cars you never wanted, all with a terrible re-sale value because you've stripped certain parts from each of them to pimp your original car just the way you wanted to.

As a consumer, it would be lovely to just be able to buy the parts I want without them being bundled with all these other expensive parts I don't want,

Thes topics are great because they bring out the funny pics.

Oh Mr. T! He does feel bad for those less gifted, you can tell.

W

T

F

Where the hell did this come from?