I liked it! It's comfortably the 4th best Star Wars movie and that's all I could have hoped it would be given the (Christ is it really) 3 decades that passed between seeing my first and seeing this. I'm not 9 anymore and so couldn't watch Episode 7 with the same wide-eyed lack of critical thought I brought to the first trilogy.

It possibly could have done with turning the Parallel-To-Episode-4-O-Meter down a notch or two, and I was kind of disappointed that we were presented with an opening scene that seemed to be going out of its way to remind us that Stormtroopers were actual living breathing bleeding people, then the film just went back to treating them as plot-device cannon-fodder but for the most part I was bang on board.

No Poe is princess Leia, finn is Han and rey is Luke, Han solo plays the role of Ben Kenobi and bb8 is r2.

That's the problem there are next to no new characters they just swapped a few races and genders and gave us what we were familiar with already.

Hopefully in the next film they'll be more than mere copies.

Only in the very, very broadest of senses. And, oh no, use of character archtypes in a Star Wars movie. That has NEVER happened before.

Imo, Rey isn't like Luke. Luke was a whiny kid in A New Hope, Rey seems to be much more balanced with her emotions. I'd rather say that she is the new Obi Wan Kenobi - archetype we know from the prequels

No, Rey is Luke. Yeah they have different personality and gender, but they play the same role. The Hero. Obi wan on the other hand is always The Mentor. Even in Episode 1 he wasn't really the Hero. By Episode 2 on he was definitely The Mentor. Rey is not The Mentor and therefore is more parallel to Luke.

No Poe is princess Leia, finn is Han and rey is Luke, Han solo plays the role of Ben Kenobi and bb8 is r2.

That's the problem there are next to no new characters they just swapped a few races and genders and gave us what we were familiar with already.

Hopefully in the next film they'll be more than mere copies.

It's true that, for example, Han fills broadly the same role in the story as Obi-Wan. But you can only say he's a "mere copy" of Obi-Wan if you ignore, oh, roughly everything else about the two characters.

No Poe is princess Leia, finn is Han and rey is Luke, Han solo plays the role of Ben Kenobi and bb8 is r2.

That's the problem there are next to no new characters they just swapped a few races and genders and gave us what we were familiar with already.

Hopefully in the next film they'll be more than mere copies.

That's such a massive overstatement it's probably got a bunch of X-Wings buzzing about it trying to blow it up.

It's true that, for example, Han fills broadly the same role in the story as Obi-Wan. But you can only say he's a "mere copy" of Obi-Wan if you ignore, oh, roughly everything else about the two characters.

Except that's not what I said is it I said he took on the role of old Ben which is wise mentor to the young that explains how things used to be.

He also blows a hole in the mcguffin so Poe can blow it up very similar to how Kenobi turned off the tractor beam.

Then we have him facing off against his son and getting cut down as others look on cementing their determination to fight.

[They couldn't risk their 4 billion dollar investment on something new and untried. So TFA was a remake of the well loved part of Star Wars.

However, I think the idea that TFA is 'rehashed' is a wrong interpretation of the film. It is the most different of all SW films, the references to ANH only partially conceal that.

[They couldn't risk their 4 billion dollar investment on something new and untried. So TFA was a remake of the well loved part of Star Wars.

Which is odd, because if anything the prequels were both a commercial success, received good reviews and had audiences coming back. The backlash against them was a later hype. So there was reason to believe that a Star Wars film that is willing to do its own thing can be a success.

However, I think the idea that TFA is 'rehashed' is a wrong interpretation of the film. It is the most different of all SW films, the references to ANH only partially conceal that.

In what way is it "most different"?

[They couldn't risk their 4 billion dollar investment on something new and untried. So TFA was a remake of the well loved part of Star Wars.

Which is odd, because if anything the prequels were both a commercial success, received good reviews and had audiences coming back. The backlash against them was a later hype. So there was reason to believe that a Star Wars film that is willing to do its own thing can be a success.

However, I think the idea that TFA is 'rehashed' is a wrong interpretation of the film. It is the most different of all SW films, the references to ANH only partially conceal that.

In what way is it "most different"?

- Story and visuals are much less congruent than before. The so called 'plot holes' are caused by rational construction of the story. In previous films, this was prevented by appealing to the audience on a very emotional level. TFA does that to a lesser degree, so the audience starts asking questions much quicker.

- The film has archetypes that break the mold. That is really what bothers some about Kylo Ren, I think.

Because both aspects represent a radical change from 'standard' Star Wars, I think we have the most different of all films. It heavily references ANH, but that is actually misleading when you look closely.

I really enjoyed the movie, it's the first star wars film that I could take my kids to watch at the Cinema, it was fun, I enjoyed the characters, the action and am looking eagerly forward to the next film.

No Poe is princess Leia, finn is Han and rey is Luke, Han solo plays the role of Ben Kenobi and bb8 is r2.

That's the problem there are next to no new characters they just swapped a few races and genders and gave us what we were familiar with already.

Hopefully in the next film they'll be more than mere copies.

That's such a massive overstatement it's probably got a bunch of X-Wings buzzing about it trying to blow it up.

It's true that, for example, Han fills broadly the same role in the story as Obi-Wan. But you can only say he's a "mere copy" of Obi-Wan if you ignore, oh, roughly everything else about the two characters.

Except that's not what I said is it I said he took on the role of old Ben which is wise mentor to the young that explains how things used to be.

He also blows a hole in the mcguffin so Poe can blow it up very similar to how Kenobi turned off the tractor beam.

Then we have him facing off against his son and getting cut down as others look on cementing their determination to fight.

Thanks Hobo, now I'm picturing Oscar Isaac in that gold bikini.

Now I don't Judge, and the dude could probably pull it off, but it's still a disturbing image.

Not only could dude pull off that look, but he's such a flirt that you'd find yourself flirting back.

And then he'd go home and enjoy the company of his fiancée.

I enjoyed it hugely. I do have one complaint though, which I have not seen mentioned in this thread yet. When Han died Chewie did not go mental enough. I realise we'll never get a truly violent Star Wars movie, but just one Storm Trooper having his arms ripped off and being beaten to death with the soggy end would have been ok surely...

XD

[They couldn't risk their 4 billion dollar investment on something new and untried. So TFA was a remake of the well loved part of Star Wars.

Which is odd, because if anything the prequels were both a commercial success, received good reviews and had audiences coming back. The backlash against them was a later hype. So there was reason to believe that a Star Wars film that is willing to do its own thing can be a success.

However, I think the idea that TFA is 'rehashed' is a wrong interpretation of the film. It is the most different of all SW films, the references to ANH only partially conceal that.

In what way is it "most different"?

Two things struck me:

- Story and visuals are much less congruent than before. The so called 'plot holes' are caused by rational construction of the story. In previous films, this was prevented by appealing to the audience on a very emotional level. TFA does that to a lesser degree, so the audience starts asking questions much quicker.

- The film has archetypes that break the mold. That is really what bothers some about Kylo Ren, I think.

Because both aspects represent a radical change from 'standard' Star Wars, I think we have the most different of all films. It heavily references ANH, but that is actually misleading when you look closely.

I think that the plot hole/audience asking more questions partly seems from our current societal issue of needing instant access to information. Everyone has a smart phone with Google at their fingertips. We crave info. We will no longer say " group a are the Good guys, group b are the bad guys, go!" This is magnified 1000 times when we are asked to do the same in a very familiar universe. I do agree that TFA had some mixed Archetypes. Who was Kylo Ren? The Villian or the person we are supposed to pity? I guess in that sense I agree with your statement of "most different". But as far as storyline goes, it was " most similar"

I said he took on the role of old Ben which is wise mentor to the young that explains how things used to be.

He also blows a hole in the mcguffin so Poe can blow it up very similar to how Kenobi turned off the tractor beam.

Then we have him facing off against his son and getting cut down as others look on cementing their determination to fight.

Ben as mentor in #4 taught Luke, hired Han, directed them to their destinations, then gave them motivation to complete the tasks he gave them. Ben disabled the tractor beam to ensure their escape. He kept Vader away from them because they weren't ready to face him knowing he could still guide Luke.

Han as mentor in #7 told Finn to stop lying to Rey, told Rey he believed in herself, was sort of tricked into driving Finn to save Rey but willing to do it to save Leia and potentially his son. Han stayed to blow up the weapon to save Leia endangering their escape. But he had no intention of dying and didn't plan for them to fight Ren afterward. Han was more father figure than quest guide mentor.

Luke in #4 was an untrained kid wanting to leave the barren planet he grew up on. Responsibilities were thrust upon him and he accepted them immediately. He was the hero saving billions of lives and got a medal.

Rey in #7 was experienced in combat but determined never to leave the barren planet she grew up on. Responsibilities were offered to her and she rejected them until the end. She was not the hero, saved Finn and the driod's lives (but had she not run from Maz's place she wouldn't have been captured so it's her fault Finn was hurt and Han was killed) and got to be the one to retrieve Luke.

I enjoyed it hugely. I do have one complaint though, which I have not seen mentioned in this thread yet. When Han died Chewie did not go mental enough. I realise we'll never get a truly violent Star Wars movie, but just one Storm Trooper having his arms ripped off and being beaten to death with the soggy end would have been ok surely...

XD

My best friend had this exact same complaint. He really wanted Chewie to rip arms off. I on the other hand are glad they refrained. It would have ruined the scene by becoming comicical because everyone would have laughed and elbowed their buddy when it happened.

Storywise, there's not that much difference between Obi-Wan, Han, Dumbledore, Gandalf (both Hobbit and LotT), Moirane, thingy in Sword of Truth, Loren in Fionavar and so on and so forth.

I think that the plot hole/audience asking more questions partly seems from our current societal issue of needing instant access to information. Everyone has a smart phone with Google at their fingertips. We crave info. We will no longer say " group a are the Good guys, group b are the bad guys, go!" This is magnified 1000 times when we are asked to do the same in a very familiar universe.

I do agree that TFA had some mixed Archetypes. Who was Kylo Ren? The Villian or the person we are supposed to pity? I guess in that sense I agree with your statement of "most different". But as far as storyline goes, it was " most similar"

I don't really care that much about similar stories. You can watch/read a dozen different versions of the odyssey and experience radically different things.

And Star Wars has been a collage of older tales from the start. As a matter of fact I think it's rather clever to make the tribute so crystal clear for everyone. Even some lines were the same. "They may have split up," and stormtroopers chatting about a new model spaceship.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

Why? If you think it's so bad you don't want to see it in theathers, why bother getting it on blu-ray?

Just go see it on the big screen. (Not worth seeing it in 3D, but that goes for 99% of "3D" movies these days.)

I didn't say I thought it was bad, I haven't even seen it yet! I'm just not excited about it, so I'd rather watch it in the comfort of my own home, and I'm not in a rush to see it.

The only reason I have an opinion is because it is a Star Wars film, and I am a Star Wars fan. Otherwise I wouldn't even bother posting about it. So maybe there is the faint criticism that I'm not going to see it in the theater, but there's other reasons besides just Force Awakens that I'm reluctant to go to the theater nowadays.

Have we ever seen bothans on screen before? This guy on the Republic world that blows up... what's he supposed to be?

I think Kylo Ren is both a character to be pitied AND the villain.

I'd argue that the best villains always are, a little sympathy for the devil never hurts.

The emo Kylo Ren twitter is hilarious.

I love the Dialogue between Ren and Hux - VERY Different from Darth Vader and senior imperial officers.

Ren might idolize Vader, but he is most definitely not Vader, no cool, no calculation, not even thoroughness (as Hux smarmily points out). He's a kid trying to wear Vader boots, Han knows it. Snoke knows it, I think deep down he knows it. The scenes where he is just stabbing random consoles in frustration is just a window into his impotent rage.

Kids out of his depth, and if he seriously does encounter Luke... will be fighting way over his weight class.

Hux... same problem, kid playing general. Fleet tactics vs Ackbar... not a contest.

So in this saga, FO got the numbers and shiny, Resistance got the skills.

At least the stormtroopers are more competent now.

These aren't complaints on the film, loved it, want to watch it again another dozen times at least, but it's interesting to see the characters.

Now Maz Kanata and Snoke, names aside these two intrigue me.

One thing that did put a smile on my face was the mention of Mag Pulse warheads. Nod to TIE Fighter there, hope to see them in X-wing soon. (if hit, cancel all dice results and target gains a weapons disabled token).

I didn't expect anything more than Star Wars, and I think that's exactly what I got. All in all, I enjoyed the show thoroughly. The first thought that went through my head when Han "bought it" was a sequence in The Force Unleashed, when the Emperor discovered the apprentice. Something about being run through with Vader's lightsaber, thrown through the window into space, only to miraculously reappear a few minutes later. No body, as far as I'm concerned, Han isn't dead. Plenty of ways that could happen in the SW universe.

I didn't expect anything more than Star Wars, and I think that's exactly what I got. All in all, I enjoyed the show thoroughly. The first thought that went through my head when Han "bought it" was a sequence in The Force Unleashed, when the Emperor discovered the apprentice. Something about being run through with Vader's lightsaber, thrown through the window into space, only to miraculously reappear a few minutes later. No body, as far as I'm concerned, Han isn't dead. Plenty of ways that could happen in the SW universe.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Harrison Ford wanted out of the Star Wars movie biz, especially with Disney planing on releasing a new Star Wars movie once a year. What actor would want to be a part of that? Keep in mind he is the only Star Wars actor from the first movie not to be locked into the typecast of that character.

I didn't expect anything more than Star Wars, and I think that's exactly what I got. All in all, I enjoyed the show thoroughly. The first thought that went through my head when Han "bought it" was a sequence in The Force Unleashed, when the Emperor discovered the apprentice. Something about being run through with Vader's lightsaber, thrown through the window into space, only to miraculously reappear a few minutes later. No body, as far as I'm concerned, Han isn't dead. Plenty of ways that could happen in the SW universe.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Harrison Ford wanted out of the Star Wars movie biz, especially with Disney planing on releasing a new Star Wars movie once a year. What actor would want to be a part of that? Keep in mind he is the only Star Wars actor from the first movie not to be locked into the typecast of that character.

Considering just how much he's been doing in terms of promotion, at the very least, after doing the role again, he decided to embrace the fandom. He also wasn't phoning it in. So, while the idea of hanging up the role was an appeal, I think he just figured, why not have some fun.

I didn't expect anything more than Star Wars, and I think that's exactly what I got. All in all, I enjoyed the show thoroughly. The first thought that went through my head when Han "bought it" was a sequence in The Force Unleashed, when the Emperor discovered the apprentice. Something about being run through with Vader's lightsaber, thrown through the window into space, only to miraculously reappear a few minutes later. No body, as far as I'm concerned, Han isn't dead. Plenty of ways that could happen in the SW universe.

I'm pretty sure Mr. Harrison Ford wanted out of the Star Wars movie biz, especially with Disney planing on releasing a new Star Wars movie once a year. What actor would want to be a part of that? Keep in mind he is the only Star Wars actor from the first movie not to be locked into the typecast of that character.

Yes, I know HF wanted to get out, but I have a hard time believing that this was the way he wanted the character to cash out.

On another note, I took my 6-year old daughter to see it with me this morning. I thought I was going to regret it during the first fight on Jakku. Glad that wasn't the case.

Ford doesn't like Star Wars, but he still did his job

if Han comes back in any way, shape or form that isn't a force ghost (though he's not a jedi, so probably still no go there) it'd be a huge cop-out

We already had one in Into Darkness, and that was some weakass bull

Ford doesn't like Star Wars, but he still did his job

if Han comes back in any way, shape or form that isn't a force ghost (though he's not a jedi, so probably still no go there) it'd be a huge cop-out

We already had one in Into Darkness, and that was some weakass bull

I am also aware of his dislike of the series. I wonder if he's so highly principled that he'd turn down a paycheck that fat. I just made the point because I know there's precedence for returning the dead to life in the SW universe.