I guess you missed the conditions in my statement, about authorities choosing what are facts based on evidence. Basically meaning 'facts' are in 'fact' arbitrary depending on the nature of the authority and the nature of their power and how it is derived, and the 'faith' one places in those authorities. Scientific facts are facts because of the amount of evidence culled from hundreds of thousands of observations and peer review of these observations. Verification of facts is always arbitrary. Remember it's always possible that the entire universe and all of existence is an illusion...which really seems like a cop-out to me but who am I to argue against ancient philosophy.

Close, but you're confusing ontology and epistemology. Facts are ontological rather than epistemic entities.

Why should they reference a reviled set of films?

Because they're not that reviled. I see a lot of internet hype and blogs and media pretending that there is some kind consensus among Star Wars fans. But there are quite a few who like the prequels, like me.

I'm tired of the constant claim that there is some kind of inclusive 'we' that believes the prequels are crap. 'We' do not think the prequels suck. Some do, some don't.

I actually met a guy the other day who said he preferred the prequels! I didn't know quite what to say.

I totally get what you are saying, there are more people that hate the prequels than like, but the people who hate them, believe that everybody hates them.

Actually, I like II and III a bit more than VII. But that's not saying much, the Star Wars film that I did not like has yet to be made, with the possible exception of the Clone Wars opening movie cartoon (which I never saw).

I don't think I will be able to definitively say where 7 ranks until 8 and 9 are out...At the moment I think I would rank 3 above 7. Not seen the clone wars movie still, I started to watch it but it just didn't feel right. I might give it another go one day.

I've just gotten back from my 4th viewing of the movie.

I definitely get the feeling that Luke recognizes Rey. I am not sure if that's been covered upthread, but that's what I noticed.

In the flashback, the young image of Rey is clearly holding the junk-dealer's (played by Simon Pegg) hand as she's crying for the ship to come back. You hear a voice that sounds exactly like his telling her something, as the statement ends with "girl".

THAT is really confounding me.

However, Rey is clearly knowledgeable about the Falcon and her inner workings, so it's entirely possible that whomever left her on Jakku left her with that guy.

Why? Well, as I stated above, I have no idea. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yet the pieces appear to fit together that way.

it's not so much luke's recognizing of her as the lightsaber

remember, that lightsaber belonged to Luke, and his father before him. And now, it's found its way to Rei.

which makes her extending it forward to luke a pretty poignant gesture

(Doesn't make the helicopter pan any less awkward, though)

I thought he was recognizing the sabre too. He had the whole "where did you get that" look on his face. Maybe a little of the "did you happen to find my severed hand" look as well.

I guess you missed the conditions in my statement, about authorities choosing what are facts based on evidence. Basically meaning 'facts' are in 'fact' arbitrary depending on the nature of the authority and the nature of their power and how it is derived, and the 'faith' one places in those authorities. Scientific facts are facts because of the amount of evidence culled from hundreds of thousands of observations and peer review of these observations. Verification of facts is always arbitrary. Remember it's always possible that the entire universe and all of existence is an illusion...which really seems like a cop-out to me but who am I to argue against ancient philosophy.

Close, but you're confusing ontology and epistemology. Facts are ontological rather than epistemic entities.

Oh, ok.

Facts are ontological while knowledge and understanding are epistemic then?

Wasn't this supposed to be a spoilerific thread about a Star Wars movie? How did a discussion on the nature of facts and knowledge just break out? Weird.

Nerds.

I've just gotten back from my 4th viewing of the movie.

I definitely get the feeling that Luke recognizes Rey. I am not sure if that's been covered upthread, but that's what I noticed.

In the flashback, the young image of Rey is clearly holding the junk-dealer's (played by Simon Pegg) hand as she's crying for the ship to come back. You hear a voice that sounds exactly like his telling her something, as the statement ends with "girl".

THAT is really confounding me.

However, Rey is clearly knowledgeable about the Falcon and her inner workings, so it's entirely possible that whomever left her on Jakku left her with that guy.

Why? Well, as I stated above, I have no idea. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yet the pieces appear to fit together that way.

it's not so much luke's recognizing of her as the lightsaber

remember, that lightsaber belonged to Luke, and his father before him. And now, it's found its way to Rei.

which makes her extending it forward to luke a pretty poignant gesture

(Doesn't make the helicopter pan any less awkward, though)

I thought he was recognizing the sabre too. He had the whole "where did you get that" look on his face. Maybe a little of the "did you happen to find my severed hand" look as well.

I was waiting for the Luke reveal at the end of the movie to have him turn around and be like half robot, but he's just Old Man Luke with the one robot hand. I was totally ready for Cyborg Luke.

I was expecting him to go: "No thank you, I already have a lightsaber. A green one."

I was expecting him to go: "No thank you, I already have a lightsaber. A green one."

That is how Episode 8 will start.

I'm putting money on him saying something to the extent of:

"I have given that up. I have no need for lightsaber anymore. You keep it."

I'm putting money on him saying something to the extent of:

"I have given that up. I have no need for lightsaber anymore. You keep it."

And then he will tell her she is too old to begin the training, and Yodas force Ghost will tell him that Luke was no different when he trained him.

or he'll go the other way..

We wants it, we needs it! Must have the precious!.They stole it from us! Sneaky little hobbitses ewokses. Wicked, tricksy, false!

..and that is the moment the ghostbusters come around and zap him for good.

okay, now I'll get that drink I promised lemmy and me this morning. at least then I'll have an excuse for the lines above

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

Fair enough, but even as a somewhat cynical SW fan, I did enjoyed the movie.

If you've been spoiler free, which if you're reading this thread you probably aren't, then I would say it's a lot better seen that way.

I think you should give it a go in any case. It's far from perfect, but it's a fun, fun, ride and it is a whole lot closer to Star Wars for me than the prequels ever will be.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

You can actually already preorder it. Lol

I'd recommend to watch it on the big cinema screen at least once. make up your own mind. if you see it later and think it's good, you'll bite yourself because you didn't go and see it in the cinema. at least I would

it's way better than the prequels, just not as good as maybe the trailers have hyped everybody in for. it's not perfect (FAR from it), but it's not bad, either

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

Do yourself a favour and just go to the theater. It's more than worth it.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star

Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

You will totally be short changing yourself on the experience.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star

Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

You will totally be short changing yourself on the experience.

Nah if my friend hadn't wanted to go see it I'd of waited too and wouldn't have felt I missed out.

At home you don't have people talking, kids crying and if you need the toilet you can pause.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

This would be a mistake. As even a passing Star Wars fan,(which I'm betting you are since your on a forum dedicated to a game that exists in the Star Wars universe and you've seen all the rest in the theatre), you should definitely give it a try. Worst case scenario, you hate it and you've wasted 2 hrs and $10. If you wait till Blue Ray and love it, then you'll regret not seeing on the big screen. I have seen it twice(and I'm taking my wife on Thursday afternoon) and while I don't love it, and have several small nitpicks, overall it is a pretty good and exciting Star Wars movie.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star

Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

You will totally be short changing yourself on the experience.

Nah if my friend hadn't wanted to go see it I'd of waited too and wouldn't have felt I missed out.

At home you don't have people talking, kids crying and if you need the toilet you can pause.

This movie, both times now, was the first time in ages everybody was quiet all through the movie. .

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star

Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

You will totally be short changing yourself on the experience.

Nah if my friend hadn't wanted to go see it I'd of waited too and wouldn't have felt I missed out.

At home you don't have people talking, kids crying and if you need the toilet you can pause.

This movie, both times now, was the first time in ages everybody was quiet all through the movie. .

dito here; I didn't even have to politely remind everybody to turn off their effing phones.. a slightly annoyed look with the promise of swift punishment to my left neighbour was all it needed

but; I really can see where the annoyance in the cinema comes in.. no manners anywhere to be seen. but hundreds of bright phone-screens. "back in the day" you'd have been in for a beating (at least half serious), today it's okay to text with your effing phone in the running movie.

did anybody of you see the minions movie?

I did only in parts, because HUNDREDS (and I'm not exaggerating here, sadly) of phones together were nearly as bright as the screen itself.. an experience I really do not wish to have repeated. I'm all for tolerance, everywhere and concering almost everything - but a little less tolerance -here- would be okay.

It's not that bad here, in my experiene. On the whole people don't treat the cinema as their living room.

People do tend to treat concerts as pubs though, making you wonder why they paid 40, 50 euros to talk through a band playing on stage.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

That was Attack of the Clones for me. There's a brand new Star Wars movie in theaters and I didn't bother to see it. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Thankfully ROTS happened and I didn't feel like it was a waste to see it.

This movie, thought, 3 times already! It gets better each time!

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

This would be a mistake. As even a passing Star Wars fan,(which I'm betting you are since your on a forum dedicated to a game that exists in the Star Wars universe and you've seen all the rest in the theatre), you should definitely give it a try. Worst case scenario, you hate it and you've wasted 2 hrs and $10. If you wait till Blue Ray and love it, then you'll regret not seeing on the big screen. I have seen it twice(and I'm taking my wife on Thursday afternoon) and while I don't love it, and have several small nitpicks, overall it is a pretty good and exciting Star Wars movie.

Meh. I'm an older fart, and I find I have a lot less patience for blowing those 2 hours that I might when I was younger.

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

Why? If you think it's so bad you don't want to see it in theathers, why bother getting it on blu-ray?

Just go see it on the big screen. (Not worth seeing it in 3D, but that goes for 99% of "3D" movies these days.)

I'm waiting for blu ray. This will be the first Star Wars movie that I don't see first in a theater.

That was Attack of the Clones for me. There's a brand new Star Wars movie in theaters and I didn't bother to see it. I just couldn't bring myself to do it. Thankfully ROTS happened and I didn't feel like it was a waste to see it.

This movie, thought, 3 times already! It gets better each time!

I've seen them all in the cinema, well not the OT on account of ep IV coming out two years before i was born, but I've seen the special editions with my dad, and then the prequals with my friends.

We even got succered into watching ep I in 3D because we were naive and tought lucas would actually do all of them in glorious 3D (ONE SCENE! ONE! that was all the 3D in the movie! and MORE CGI added! Well played lucas you **** hack. Making me pay twice for ep I. Well played.)

One movie I flat out refused to go see in cinemas (on principle, not just because I tought it would suck) was the (completly unnesesary) remake of The Thing. I downed it (because I'll be damned if they see my money for that travesty) watched it to see how bad the damage was and wished i had a voodoo doll of the director...

What was I on about again?

Oh yeah TFA isn't perfect but you should just go see it in theathers .