Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

Two people in front of me and the guy to my left fell asleep at the 5:15 showing.

Probably fair to say they weren't Star Wars fans, then.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, they fell asleep but it can't be because the movie was boring noo they just weren't true fans

Well, they clearly weren't fans.

That's OK, not everyone has to be a fan to go to a cinema. Maybe they were plus ones. Or taking their kiddies. Or tagging along with friends who were fans. But they sure as hell weren't.

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

Two people in front of me and the guy to my left fell asleep at the 5:15 showing.

Probably fair to say they weren't Star Wars fans, then.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, they fell asleep but it can't be because the movie was boring noo they just weren't true fans

Well, they clearly weren't fans.

That's OK, not everyone has to be a fan to go to a cinema. Maybe they were plus ones. Or taking their kiddies. Or tagging along with friends who were fans. But they sure as hell weren't.

Or maybe they fell asleep because they had been watching showings of TFA back to back since 10 o'clock in the morning*, and they got a bit tired during the 5 consecutive showing.

* actual time of the TFA premiere in Belgium.

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Of course everyone is also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

(Why does it have to explained why R2 was shut down? Can't we all just guess that Luke and/or the force and/or the map and Rey being present have something to do with it? 'Needing' to explain everything was what bogged down the prequels to no end.)

No better question, why was R2 shut down? Ok it's becuz he's so sad master luke has gone off on his own and vanished that he shut himslef down. Why was that neccesary to be in the story? You could have C3PO just mention it when he introduces himself to Finn.

C3PO: "Hello, I'm C3PO, human-cyborg relations, and this is my counter part R2D2, I'm afraid he hasn't been quite himself since master Luke dissapeared, oh my."

Do you not realize that this is pretty much exactly what C3PO said in the actual movie?

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

That is blatant cherry picking. Every time they talk about Rey without saying Rey they refer to her as girl in the movie.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Hey if she said it, I don't see how anyone else could call offense Mr. white jedi knight.

Anyways I was quoting my sister (not in this video above) but her biggest issue was how she could all of a sudden win a lightsaber duel just because "the force". So yeah even my sister finds that scene absurd, the whole "by a girl" was just to show the immaturity of the scene. Does my sister offend you with her misogyny?

how in god's name do people keep forgetting the real hero of the film?

Ren would've steamrolled past both our plucky heroes without that bolt to the gut

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Of course everyone is also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

(Why does it have to explained why R2 was shut down? Can't we all just guess that Luke and/or the force and/or the map and Rey being present have something to do with it? 'Needing' to explain everything was what bogged down the prequels to no end.)

No better question, why was R2 shut down? Ok it's becuz he's so sad master luke has gone off on his own and vanished that he shut himslef down. Why was that neccesary to be in the story? You could have C3PO just mention it when he introduces himself to Finn.

C3PO: "Hello, I'm C3PO, human-cyborg relations, and this is my counter part R2D2, I'm afraid he hasn't been quite himself since master Luke dissapeared, oh my."

Do you not realize that this is pretty much exactly what C3PO said in the actual movie?

Yeah except there's a huge difference between R2 being sad that Luke isn't around to shutting himself down because he can't take the pain of his seperation anxiety! Jeeez even the droids are emo in this movie. Ok R2 has realy bonded with Luke, especially after Dagobah, but luke leaves him behind with threepio, and the rest of the gang and R2 goes: nope dont wanna play anymore and shuts down?

Yeah except there's a huge difference between R2 being sad that Luke isn't around to shutting himself down because he can't take the pain of his seperation anxiety! Jeeez even the droids are emo in this movie. Ok R2 has realy bonded with Luke, especially after Dagobah, but luke leaves him behind with threepio, and the rest of the gang and R2 goes: nope dont wanna play anymore and shuts down?

I imagine it was done at Luke's request. Luke goes into exile, but leaves R2 behind with key information that will reveal his whereabouts to the right people at the right time.

So R2-D2 goes into "low power mode" and waits until some pre-determined criteria is fulfilled that allows him to reveal Luke's location. What criteria? The missing piece of the Star Map to the Jedi temple? The finding of Luke's lightsabre? The emergence of a potential Force-user?

How was there any confusion about the star map in the first place? That little section they had should have easily been enough to find Luke. Surely they have maps of the galaxy in some form from over the thousands of years there have been space faring species. There would have been some kind of landmark they could reference in it without a need for the whole thing. Unless it didn't show where Luke went in which case its useless anyways and they are lucky that R2 bothered to power up.

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Absolutely not! It is impossible to verify facts with any amount of evidence, we all know this, we've all been told in one form or another but still cling to that idea. As Imre Lakatos put it: "Why such stubborn resistance to elementary logic?!"

On my second viewing o caught a couple things I didn't catch the first time out at least saw them in a different light. The most important one was Reys Force vision. First time watching it I got the impression it was a vision of the future, but the second time watching it I got the feeling it was a flashback.

There's that bit where they say Luke was training a new generation of Jedi but they never say how many. Looking at the flash back I get the vibe it's Kylo and that half dozen or so guys standing behind him that all turned on Luke and destroyed his school. I think when Luke and R2 are standing by the fire it's a funeral pyre for the dead loyal students. And then Luke drops off the survivor Rey at Jakku. I'm under the impression that Rey was trained as a child but doesn't remember it thanks to the traumatic event so she's actually not just some savant, she's just starting to remember. I also wonder if she's Luke's daughter, and her name is a play on 'Ray of light'.

Ren would've steamrolled past both our plucky heroes without that bolt to the gut

Actually he still did steamroller them he just wasn't trying to kill Rey as evidenced by the 'hey I could murder you but I'm going to try to covert you instead' moment on the edge of a lava ravine. If ren wasn't on the covert/capture plan it seems like rey could have easily taken a swim. Ren likely would have just used his crossblade on her arm like v. Fn-2187 and dumped her in the drink.

On my second viewing o caught a couple things I didn't catch the first time out at least saw them in a different light. The most important one was Reys Force vision. First time watching it I got the impression it was a vision of the future, but the second time watching it I got the feeling it was a flashback.

There's that bit where they say Luke was training a new generation of Jedi but they never say how many. Looking at the flash back I get the vibe it's Kylo and that half dozen or so guys standing behind him that all turned on Luke and destroyed his school. I think when Luke and R2 are standing by the fire it's a funeral pyre for the dead loyal students. And then Luke drops off the survivor Rey at Jakku. I'm under the impression that Rey was trained as a child but doesn't remember it thanks to the traumatic event so she's actually not just some savant, she's just starting to remember. I also wonder if she's Luke's daughter, and her name is a play on 'Ray of light'.

On my second viewing I unfortunately I se too many scenes that suggest that they are related. I can't see it being a really "Oh my god" moment when they show it without it feeling like an asspull. Jakku seems like a terrible place to leave a child especially when as a hero of the galaxy you could set her up to be like Leia was, a princess on a planet somewhere.

Ren would've steamrolled past both our plucky heroes without that bolt to the gut

Actually he still did steamroller them he just wasn't trying to kill Rey as evidenced by the 'hey I could murder you but I'm going to try to covert you instead' moment on the edge of a lava ravine. If ren wasn't on the covert/capture plan it seems like rey could have easily taken a swim. Ren likely would have just used his crossblade on her arm like v. Fn-2187 and dumped her in the drink.

I watched the fight scene again last night and it's really not as cut and dried as it felt on the first pass - Finn really just lashes out and Emo Ren doesn't have problems dominating him at all (the gut shot slowed him down but the fight is so fast-paced that it isn't obvious until repeat viewings) and then with Rey, he pretty much has her on the defensive (and rightly so) until she lunges and cuts his face.

Not disputing it was a weak showing from Ren, but it wasn't quite as overwhelmingly poor as it appeared to me on first viewing.

On my second viewing o caught a couple things I didn't catch the first time out at least saw them in a different light. The most important one was Reys Force vision. First time watching it I got the impression it was a vision of the future, but the second time watching it I got the feeling it was a flashback.

There's that bit where they say Luke was training a new generation of Jedi but they never say how many. Looking at the flash back I get the vibe it's Kylo and that half dozen or so guys standing behind him that all turned on Luke and destroyed his school. I think when Luke and R2 are standing by the fire it's a funeral pyre for the dead loyal students. And then Luke drops off the survivor Rey at Jakku. I'm under the impression that Rey was trained as a child but doesn't remember it thanks to the traumatic event so she's actually not just some savant, she's just starting to remember. I also wonder if she's Luke's daughter, and her name is a play on 'Ray of light'.

On my second viewing I unfortunately I se too many scenes that suggest that they are related. I can't see it being a really "Oh my god" moment when they show it without it feeling like an asspull. Jakku seems like a terrible place to leave a child especially when as a hero of the galaxy you could set her up to be like Leia was, a princess on a planet somewhere.

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Absolutely not! It is impossible to verify facts with any amount of evidence, we all know this, we've all been told in one form or another but still cling to that idea. As Imre Lakatos put it: "Why such stubborn resistance to elementary logic?!"

I guess you missed the conditions in my statement, about authorities choosing what are facts based on evidence. Basically meaning 'facts' are in 'fact' arbitrary depending on the nature of the authority and the nature of their power and how it is derived, and the 'faith' one places in those authorities. Scientific facts are facts because of the amount of evidence culled from hundreds of thousands of observations and peer review of these observations. Verification of facts is always arbitrary. Remember it's always possible that the entire universe and all of existence is an illusion...which really seems like a cop-out to me but who am I to argue against ancient philosophy.

What tha hell was the argument again?

And where did you get the idea that I believe in 'absolute truth' anyway? The uncertainty principle best illustrates the inexact and fallible nature of human knowledge and understanding (in my opinion as a non scientist)No need to dig up dead mathematicians.

There's that bit where they say Luke was training a new generation of Jedi but they never say how many. Looking at the flash back I get the vibe it's Kylo and that half dozen or so guys standing behind him that all turned on Luke and destroyed his school.

Kylo and the Knights of Ren.

I think when Luke and R2 are standing by the fire it's a funeral pyre for the dead loyal students.

I think that's where we see Luke manipulate R2 to wake up at a certain trigger to show the way.

And then Luke drops off the survivor Rey at Jakku. I'm under the impression that Rey was trained as a child but doesn't remember it thanks to the traumatic event so she's actually not just some savant, she's just starting to remember. I also wonder if she's Luke's daughter, and her name is a play on 'Ray of light'.

I doubt that that is what happened, I think it's about as likely she was aboard the Falcon when it got stolen. The name I think she took from the name of the fighter helmet we see her wear.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Hey if she said it, I don't see how anyone else could call offense Mr. white jedi knight.

Anyways I was quoting my sister (not in this video above) but her biggest issue was how she could all of a sudden win a lightsaber duel just because "the force". So yeah even my sister finds that scene absurd, the whole "by a girl" was just to show the immaturity of the scene. Does my sister offend you with her misogyny?

Was your phrasing bud- and hey, at least give me the dignity of being a Stormtrooper.

And your sister saying it doesn't make it right either.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Hey if she said it, I don't see how anyone else could call offense Mr. white jedi knight.

Anyways I was quoting my sister (not in this video above) but her biggest issue was how she could all of a sudden win a lightsaber duel just because "the force". So yeah even my sister finds that scene absurd, the whole "by a girl" was just to show the immaturity of the scene. Does my sister offend you with her misogyny?

how in god's name do people keep forgetting the real hero of the film?

Ren would've steamrolled past both our plucky heroes without that bolt to the gut

This is true!

AMBIVALENT

The supreme leader appearing giant. Giant bodies work only in low-G or aquatic environments. He could be aquatic. But Palpatine also looked bigger in the OT projections.

Yeah except there's a huge difference between R2 being sad that Luke isn't around to shutting himself down because he can't take the pain of his seperation anxiety! Jeeez even the droids are emo in this movie. Ok R2 has realy bonded with Luke, especially after Dagobah, but luke leaves him behind with threepio, and the rest of the gang and R2 goes: nope dont wanna play anymore and shuts down?

I imagine it was done at Luke's request. Luke goes into exile, but leaves R2 behind with key information that will reveal his whereabouts to the right people at the right time.

So R2-D2 goes into "low power mode" and waits until some pre-determined criteria is fulfilled that allows him to reveal Luke's location. What criteria? The missing piece of the Star Map to the Jedi temple? The finding of Luke's lightsabre? The emergence of a potential Force-user?

Here's a theory, and it's just that...

Suppose R2 went into low power mode to search his data banks for the missing map piece? Is it possible he did so in order to allocate all his available resources to the memory search?

I dunno, seems weaker than water as I type it but at the time it made for a promising possibility.

I've just gotten back from my 4th viewing of the movie.

I definitely get the feeling that Luke recognizes Rey. I am not sure if that's been covered upthread, but that's what I noticed.

In the flashback, the young image of Rey is clearly holding the junk-dealer's (played by Simon Pegg) hand as she's crying for the ship to come back. You hear a voice that sounds exactly like his telling her something, as the statement ends with "girl".

THAT is really confounding me.

However, Rey is clearly knowledgeable about the Falcon and her inner workings, so it's entirely possible that whomever left her on Jakku left her with that guy.

Why? Well, as I stated above, I have no idea. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yet the pieces appear to fit together that way.

The Falcon was clearly stolen. She probably poked around the Falcon while it was just sitting there.

The Falcon was clearly stolen. She probably poked around the Falcon while it was just sitting there.

As Han said. It was stolen from a bunch of people, all of whom originally stole it from him.

No honour among thieves and all that.

The Falcon was clearly stolen. She probably poked around the Falcon while it was just sitting there.

Stolen by Plutt (sp?), from the Irving Boys, who stole it from Ducain who stole it from Solo.

I've just gotten back from my 4th viewing of the movie.

I definitely get the feeling that Luke recognizes Rey. I am not sure if that's been covered upthread, but that's what I noticed.

In the flashback, the young image of Rey is clearly holding the junk-dealer's (played by Simon Pegg) hand as she's crying for the ship to come back. You hear a voice that sounds exactly like his telling her something, as the statement ends with "girl".

THAT is really confounding me.

However, Rey is clearly knowledgeable about the Falcon and her inner workings, so it's entirely possible that whomever left her on Jakku left her with that guy.

Why? Well, as I stated above, I have no idea. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yet the pieces appear to fit together that way.

it's not so much luke's recognizing of her as the lightsaber

remember, that lightsaber belonged to Luke, and his father before him. And now, it's found its way to Rei.

which makes her extending it forward to luke a pretty poignant gesture

(Doesn't make the helicopter pan any less awkward, though)

I've just gotten back from my 4th viewing of the movie.

I definitely get the feeling that Luke recognizes Rey. I am not sure if that's been covered upthread, but that's what I noticed.

In the flashback, the young image of Rey is clearly holding the junk-dealer's (played by Simon Pegg) hand as she's crying for the ship to come back. You hear a voice that sounds exactly like his telling her something, as the statement ends with "girl".

THAT is really confounding me.

However, Rey is clearly knowledgeable about the Falcon and her inner workings, so it's entirely possible that whomever left her on Jakku left her with that guy.

Why? Well, as I stated above, I have no idea. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, yet the pieces appear to fit together that way.

it's not so much luke's recognizing of her as the lightsaber

remember, that lightsaber belonged to Luke, and his father before him. And now, it's found its way to Rei.

which makes her extending it forward to luke a pretty poignant gesture

(Doesn't make the helicopter pan any less awkward, though)

I do agree with you that Luke recognizes the 'saber, but I really do get the vibe that he first looks at her and knows her.

I love the gesture as well as her facial expression. That scene is one of my favorite ones of the whole movie.

The pan away...yeah. I hear ya on that.