I think The Force Awakens, despite its flaws, was a big step in the right direction and I think it sets the stage for even better Star Wars films in the future.

this. there are so many things I really do. not. like. about Ep.7. Yet, it gives way more hope for the future than Ep.1 did back in 199x. yeah, they could have made many things better; but: they also could have done many things worse.

no ewoks, no jarjar, no "extra stupid"-roger-roger-droids.. even the new droid bb8 was okay (I REALLY expected this to go the other way).

so next time, the same recipe please, plus add a few (lot) things, most important a good writer and a good -reader- (the someone who "okays" the script), and we're off to a really great movie that time

I liked it.

Less than Empire Strikes Back, but more than the prequels.

Currently it is equal in my affections with Return of the Jedi and A New Hope.

Prequels = ok but really could and should have been better

Episode VII = one happy thumbs up from me, though it wasn't without a couple of minor irritations. I say minor because, unlike the prequel annoyances, they didn't upset my enjoyment for one fraction of a millisecond.

Wall of text warning. But having seen it 2 days ago, and read 39 pages of thread, I cannot contain myself

As a kid i would have totally liked it. As teen would still liked, but seen the plot problems.

As adult with my scientific education, and having in earlier life been roleplaying GM for some 22years with mostly self invented years-long interconnected not-group-railroading campaigns, I really cringed at some points in the film.

I enjoyed it, but see it only as solid. Clearly better than the prequels by avoiding a lot of junk, but not a great movie.

THE GOOD

Film kept me mostly immersed.

Some mysteries left open! As it should be.

The force a mystery. Seldomly seen and a legend. (not tons of hiddendargoncrouchingtiger lightsaber wielding characters everywhere).

The interaction between Rey and Finn. Between Finn and Han (women will see through you, they always do). Between Poe and Finn.

Poe not afraid of Kylo: Poe seems to be totally reckless, reckless to a degree that it will get him killed in the end. Really fitting for a fighter ace.

Female fighter pilots!

The light-saber fights. Raw, brutal and fighting for life. None of them really properly trained with them and it shows!

The bickering and bullying of the 2 rivals Hux and Kylo.

Kylo is evil. "Show, don't tell" is the maxim of films. Compared with Darth Maul, where we are told he is evil, but he only ever looks like a devil and mostly justs runs around, look at Vader and Kylo. Both have their entries with style, murdering important characters,

while offhandedly killing bystanders and property. That TFA got right.

------------------

THINGS I do not see as a problem

Kylo having fits. Fitting for a dark sider. Having problems with the 2 stormtroopers turning another direction? We already have seen that Kylo does it quite often, so people will have learned to avoid him when he is having tempers. And

in the first instance of fit there was no comic relief.

Kylo's whole character. Unstable dark-sider, giving in to the negative feelings. So badly wanting to be Vader, and so failing. Really good.

Totally unbalanced when realising what big mistakes he just made wanting to mind read Rey, and that there are more powerful force users than he and Snoke(?) - nice. So far he always won, not this time. And she actually learned a lot from him right there.

Han's death. And his f**ed up life. Life is a *****, maybe some expected the typical Hollywood happily-ever-after for Han&Leia. And the typical US-Hollywood, there is only ever upwards in life....But it did not happen for Han & Leia.

Opposites attract, but will it hold??

Leia at least still has some general/diplomat power and pose.

Han however...

IRL war heroes often did not make once the war is over. Just compare with the bios of most fighter aces from WW1. Lot of tragical lifes there.

Ford looks so wasted on purpose, the acting is "bored" on purpose. Han is just too old for this sh** and is done for. The gangs boarding his freighter clearly state it as well (Nobody in the galaxy believes you any more, and falls for

your plans). Or the reaction of Maz and everyone in the bar. Heck, just getting into the situation of being boarded by 2 gangs. Han is getting too old for the game, he is loosing the ball, and he knows it.

As to him reappearing: I swear if Han appears again in any other form than a force ghost, flashback or an old holovid in 8, it would be so cheasy that I will definitely not watch 9.

Although Rey has some superheroine touch to her, she still makes mistakes (wrong fuses) and is totally unsure, and does'nt want to be a force user.

----------------------

AMBIVALENT

The supreme leader appearing giant. Giant bodies work only in low-G or aquatic environments. He could be aquatic. But Palpatine also looked bigger in the OT projections.

I think and really hope that this guy has a Lord Farquaard syndrome

---------------------

THE BAD

This film was so rushed. And so full of plot devices and plot holes, characters are just railroaded along with a number of seemingly stupid events and reasons (should one write "not-reasons"?)

A lot of posters here say, that ANH is full of holes as well. Yes, OK, but at least it has the right speed. And this would be all the more be a reason to NOT do that mistake with lots of plot holes again.

Too few things explained. While it is totally OK and actually good to keep a mystery aura by leaving some things unexplained, some thing have to be explained.

E.g. the thing about factions involved. People here draw a lot analogue to ANH being unclear as well. But ANH opening crawl clearly states the 2 factions and their relation. TFA states the 3 factions, but according to the text the FO

solely is out after Luke. Which might be Kylo's aim, but Hux is out after something else. And destroying the senate's seat has nothing to do with Luke.

Only 2 more sentences in the opening would have helped a lot.

I like reading. I like vast tomes. However, whereading a book is REQUIRED to understand a film, than it IS a bad film. Then you can just stay with the books, no need to even make the film or watch it.

The argument made here "read the books, everything is explained there" is just stupid.

Maz Kanata being "a 1000 years" - so cheesy. Would have been a lot more atmospheric and mysterious (and less Yoda copy&paste simultaneously outdoing Yoda by 100years) by just stating she has been around for ages, nobody knows how old

she really is.

Phasma totally underdeveloped. No reason given why she - as seemingly fanatic FO follower just not let herself killed or somehow sound a alarm, lowers the shields.

Too many fast cuts. A general Hollywood problems since mid90s , accelerated beginning 00s. Actually TFA does not overdoe too much, at least in the melee sequences you still could follow the moves, and who is doing what (a lot of modern

action films you cant). But the fighter sequences?

General problems with time and distances in this movie. Space is so **** big, and mostly empty.

E.g. the beam sequence is just BS. First its moving slow, then suddenly it moves several parsecs, and still it is observable from several planets? Anyone involved in the film's making looked IRL at Mars and Venus in the nightsky?....probably not.

The "Giant Eyelashes of Doom"

Oh come on, for the force's sake come up with something new and creative! And if its just a giant loadingstation for antimatter-loaded-freighters FTL-jump-pushed into another planet sun to explode it.

Or big conception not far from the sun moving with the sun all the time shadowing the planet - artificiell semipermanent solar eclipse. Ere comes the dark side.... (Read the Zahn triology decades ago, if I remember correctly there was

some abysmal large system of opening umbrellas really near the planet, shading it - would be less resource craving if you do it further away from the planet and nearer to the sun). Voila you have an epic structure to attack. Without

killing off the FO base already in the first movie. Instead after destroying the sunshading thingie, attacking the FO base would come later in later movies.

No again, a just bigger Deathstar with AGAIN a stupid achilles heel TOTALLY unguarded, even after FO clearly sees WHAT the handful of resistance X-wings are attacking. Speaking of stupid x-wings, why not sending something bigger (b-

wings?, Y-wings?, something more capital?), or if they only have x-wings at least use bombs and proton torpedos. At the very least let Ackbar or whoever TELL us why they send only all-purpose snubfighters only equipped with lasers.

Where did FO get the resources to build it (already asked months ago on this forum by several if us). Why did Resistance not identify the threat? Or were they so peacewishing ala Munich/Tcheslovakia 1938 that they know of it, but they

just hoped FO will not use it? Not very plausible with how FO is shown in the movie. It could maybe argued that they know it was somewhere, but not where. Either way, suddenly they have so precise intelligence that they know down to the

second when it will fire, despite it being lightyears away. No way a janitor could deliver so much details in a few minutes.

Edit: typo error in "GM" sentence

If Han shows up as a force ghost I'll cry foul.

If Han shows up as a force ghost I'll cry foul.

Absolutely. Ive always though of Han as having a latent connection but force ghost? Ugh.

Flashback only please, and even then, only if its as well done as Reys force vison one.

Wall of text warning. But having seen it 2 days ago, and read 39 pages of thread, I cannot contain myself

As a kid i would have totally liked it. As teen would still liked, but seen the plot problems.

As adult with my scientific education, and having in earlier life been roleplaying GW for some 22years with mostly self invented years-long interconnected not-group-railroading campaigns, I really cringed at some points in the film.

I enjoyed it, but see it only as solid. Clearly better than the prequels by avoiding a lot of junk, but not a great movie.

THE GOOD

Film kept me mostly immersed.

Some mysteries left open! As it should be.

The force a mystery. Seldomly seen and a legend. (not tons of hiddendargoncrouchingtiger lightsaber wielding characters everywhere).

The interaction between Rey and Finn. Between Finn and Han (women will see through you, they always do). Between Poe and Finn.

Poe not afraid of Kylo: Poe seems to be totally reckless, reckless to a degree that it will get him killed in the end. Really fitting for a fighter ace.

Female fighter pilots!

The light-saber fights. Raw, brutal and fighting for life. None of them really properly trained with them and it shows!

The bickering and bullying of the 2 rivals Hux and Kylo.

Kylo is evil. "Show, don't tell" is the maxim of films. Compared with Darth Maul, where we are told he is evil, but he only ever looks like a devil and mostly justs runs around, look at Vader and Kylo. Both have their entries with style, murdering important characters,

while offhandedly killing bystanders and property. That TFA got right.

------------------

THINGS I do not see as a problem

Kylo having fits. Fitting for a dark sider. Having problems with the 2 stormtroopers turning another direction? We already have seen that Kylo does it quite often, so people will have learned to avoid him when he is having tempers. And

in the first instance of fit there was no comic relief.

Kylo's whole character. Unstable dark-sider, giving in to the negative feelings. So badly wanting to be Vader, and so failing. Really good.

Totally unbalanced when realising what big mistakes he just made wanting to mind read Rey, and that there are more powerful force users than he and Snoke(?) - nice. So far he always won, not this time. And she actually learned a lot from him right there.

Han's death. And his f**ed up life. Life is a *****, maybe some expected the typical Hollywood happily-ever-after for Han&Leia. And the typical US-Hollywood, there is only ever upwards in life....But it did not happen for Han & Leia.

Opposites attract, but will it hold??

Leia at least still has some general/diplomat power and pose.

Han however...

IRL war heroes often did not make once the war is over. Just compare with the bios of most fighter aces from WW1. Lot of tragical lifes there.

Ford looks so wasted on purpose, the acting is "bored" on purpose. Han is just too old for this sh** and is done for. The gangs boarding his freighter clearly state it as well (Nobody in the galaxy believes you any more, and falls for

your plans). Or the reaction of Maz and everyone in the bar. Heck, just getting into the situation of being boarded by 2 gangs. Han is getting too old for the game, he is loosing the ball, and he knows it.

As to him reappearing: I swear if Han appears again in any other form than a force ghost, flashback or an old holovid in 8, it would be so cheasy that I will definitely not watch 9.

Although Rey has some superheroine touch to her, she still makes mistakes (wrong fuses) and is totally unsure, and does'nt want to be a force user.

----------------------

AMBIVALENT

The supreme leader appearing giant. Giant bodies work only in low-G or aquatic environments. He could be aquatic. But Palpatine also looked bigger in the OT projections.

I think and really hope that this guy has a Lord Farquaard syndrome

---------------------

THE BAD

This film was so rushed. And so full of plot devices and plot holes, characters are just railroaded along with a number of seemingly stupid events and reasons (should one write "not-reasons"?)

A lot of posters here say, that ANH is full of holes as well. Yes, OK, but at least it has the right speed. And this would be all the more be a reason to NOT do that mistake with lots of plot holes again.

Too few things explained. While it is totally OK and actually good to keep a mystery aura by leaving some things unexplained, some thing have to be explained.

E.g. the thing about factions involved. People here draw a lot analogue to ANH being unclear as well. But ANH opening crawl clearly states the 2 factions and their relation. TFA states the 3 factions, but according to the text the FO

solely is out after Luke. Which might be Kylo's aim, but Hux is out after something else. And destroying the senate's seat has nothing to do with Luke.

Only 2 more sentences in the opening would have helped a lot.

I like reading. I like vast tomes. However, whereading a book is REQUIRED to understand a film, than it IS a bad film. Then you can just stay with the books, no need to even make the film or watch it.

The argument made here "read the books, everything is explained there" is just stupid.

Maz Kanata being "a 1000 years" - so cheesy. Would have been a lot more atmospheric and mysterious (and less Yoda copy&paste simultaneously outdoing Yoda by 100years) by just stating she has been around for ages, nobody knows how old

she really is.

Phasma totally underdeveloped. No reason given why she - as seemingly fanatic FO follower just not let herself killed or somehow sound a alarm, lowers the shields.

Too many fast cuts. A general Hollywood problems since mid90s , accelerated beginning 00s. Actually TFA does not overdoe too much, at least in the melee sequences you still could follow the moves, and who is doing what (a lot of modern

action films you cant). But the fighter sequences?

General problems with time and distances in this movie. Space is so **** big, and mostly empty.

E.g. the beam sequence is just BS. First its moving slow, then suddenly it moves several parsecs, and still it is observable from several planets? Anyone involved in the film's making looked IRL at Mars and Venus in the nightsky?....probably not.

The "Giant Eyelashes of Doom"

Oh come on, for the force's sake come up with something new and creative! And if its just a giant loadingstation for antimatter-loaded-freighters FTL-jump-pushed into another planet sun to explode it.

Or big conception not far from the sun moving with the sun all the time shadowing the planet - artificiell semipermanent solar eclipse. Ere comes the dark side.... (Read the Zahn triology decades ago, if I remember correctly there was

some abysmal large system of opening umbrellas really near the planet, shading it - would be less resource craving if you do it further away from the planet and nearer to the sun). Voila you have an epic structure to attack. Without

killing off the FO base already in the first movie. Instead after destroying the sunshading thingie, attacking the FO base would come later in later movies.

No again, a just bigger Deathstar with AGAIN a stupid achilles heel TOTALLY unguarded, even after FO clearly sees WHAT the handful of resistance X-wings are attacking. Speaking of stupid x-wings, why not sending something bigger (b-

wings?, Y-wings?, something more capital?), or if they only have x-wings at least use bombs and proton torpedos. At the very least let Ackbar or whoever TELL us why they send only all-purpose snubfighters only equipped with lasers.

Where did FO get the resources to build it (already asked months ago on this forum by several if us). Why did Resistance not identify the threat? Or were they so peacewishing ala Munich/Tcheslovakia 1938 that they know of it, but they

just hoped FO will not use it? Not very plausible with how FO is shown in the movie. It could maybe argued that they know it was somewhere, but not where. Either way, suddenly they have so precise intelligence that they know down to the

second when it will fire, despite it being lightyears away. No way a janitor could deliver so much details in a few minutes.

^THIS^

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl (censored for those overly sensitive people who needs a safe space and should not talk to another human being) with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

When a post starts with an apology about the incoming wall of text, that should also serve as a notice as to not quote the whole post.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Yeah, all my audiences loved it. And you can really start to tell it's Daniel Craig after a few times.

Also one neat thing I've noticed on my multiple viewings: 2 female Stormtroopers. So not just Phasma.

I'm really excited to be seeing it for a fourth time with my Dad.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Not to mention we've seen that Rey's pretty handy in close combat- she's got a lot of experience fighting with that staff of hers, so she's competent enough with the saber.

Plus there's the recurring theme of Rey developing her Force powers as Ren uses his against her. Rey finds clarity and mindfulness as the (badly wounded) Kylo descends further into rage and desperation.

Taking all that into account, it's not so hard to believe that Rey totally could (and did) kick Ren to the curb.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Not to mention we've seen that Rey's pretty handy in close combat- she's got a lot of experience fighting with that staff of hers, so she's competent enough with the saber.

Plus there's the recurring theme of Rey developing her Force powers as Ren uses his against her. Rey finds clarity and mindfulness as the (badly wounded) Kylo descends further into rage and desperation.

Taking all that into account, it's not so hard to believe that Rey totally could (and did) kick Ren to the curb.

Well you're not wrong, but remember, as per Marinealver, She is a girl so it's INSULTING for a big STRONG MAN to lose to her!

That makes sense right

To play devils advocate, was he just saying she is a girl (which is true) with no training without intending anything sexist. I did t instantly interpret any sexism from the post and for what it's worth in the context of this thread, I thought Rey was awesome.

If he'd said boy with no training g (hey Luke) no one would bat an eyelid.

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Hey if she said it, I don't see how anyone else could call offense Mr. white jedi knight.

Anyways I was quoting my sister (not in this video above) but her biggest issue was how she could all of a sudden win a lightsaber duel just because "the force". So yeah even my sister finds that scene absurd, the whole "by a girl" was just to show the immaturity of the scene. Does my sister offend you with her misogyny?

Also, a lot of people can't tell the difference between fact and opinion, conflate the two, and get upset again.

Example:

Fact: Several things in the film are not explained in any way, e.g. Why is R2 asleep (when he could just as easily secretly have the map inside him and continue to function as normal), and why does he wake up when he does?

Opinion: Phasma is set up as being somewhat cool, and then criminally underused. Snoke looks ridiculous and has a silly name. Ren can't be taken seriously once he takes off the mask.

The thing is, both can be valid, but only in the case of opinions can someone else have a different point of view and also be equally valid. Before responding in a fit of rage, try to separate someone's posts into what is a fact, and what is an opinion, and then which one you have a problem with. Because the correct response to an incorrect fact is to say "That is not true, here is evidence..." while the correct response to a different opinion is "I disagree with what you are saying, but appreciate you have a right to believe whatever you want. Have you considered...?"

Also, a lot of people can't tell the difference between fact and opinion, conflate the two, and get upset again.

Example:

Fact: Several things in the film are not explained in any way, e.g. Why is R2 asleep (when he could just as easily secretly have the map inside him and continue to function as normal), and why does he wake up when he does?

The thing is, both can be valid...

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

Two people in front of me and the guy to my left fell asleep at the 5:15 showing.

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

Two people in front of me and the guy to my left fell asleep at the 5:15 showing.

Probably fair to say they weren't Star Wars fans, then.

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

Two people in front of me and the guy to my left fell asleep at the 5:15 showing.

Probably fair to say they weren't Star Wars fans, then.

That's a no true Scotsman fallacy, they fell asleep but it can't be because the movie was boring noo they just weren't true fans.

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Of course everyone is also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

(Why does it have to explained why R2 was shut down? Can't we all just guess that Luke and/or the force and/or the map and Rey being present have something to do with it? 'Needing' to explain everything was what bogged down the prequels to no end.)

The movie didn't impress me but it didn't disappoint me either. My only disagreement is Kylo Ren as the worst character in the movie. Total emo not imposing at all got his ass handed him by a girl with no Jedi training because of "The Force". Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience so if the audience is groaning at a scene it is not the best movie, might not be a bad movie but it did have one of those.

Wow, sexist much.

Not sexist. More like 5 year old. Eeewww girls have kooties!

Not to mention the Jedi Mind trick got a groan from the audience

Then your audience sucked ****. Because mine loved that.

I dunno, how does she know how to do that mind trick? As far as we know she has no training. And doing that mindtrick seems a bit more complicated than a force pull/push.

Also if I'm a storm trooper and some prisoner starts babbeling about how i have to go outside and leave the cell door open, I'm gonna take the butt of my blaster rifle and and knock them in the face with it.

Facts are only facts if they can be proved true to be valid via Evidence to the satisfaction of the authorities involved.

Of course everyone is also entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wrong they are.

(Why does it have to explained why R2 was shut down? Can't we all just guess that Luke and/or the force and/or the map and Rey being present have something to do with it? 'Needing' to explain everything was what bogged down the prequels to no end.)

No better question, why was R2 shut down? Ok it's becuz he's so sad master luke has gone off on his own and vanished that he shut himslef down. Why was that neccesary to be in the story? You could have C3PO just mention it when he introduces himself to Finn.

C3PO: "Hello, I'm C3PO, human-cyborg relations, and this is my counter part R2D2, I'm afraid he hasn't been quite himself since master Luke dissapeared, oh my."

guess

the force a

have something to do with it

yep, that's the problem.

you can only guess what the hell unfolds.

because Jar Jar Abrams tried to put it ALL into one film knowing he isn't making two.

while 2 films are required to re-tell the 4-5 episodes.

all we have is to guess or use TEH FORCE to fill gaping holes in the plot.

you know what that sounds like to me?

the ending of Vongs.

"Oh snap it, I'M SICK OF IT ALL! HE'S ONE WITH THE FORCE, HE WINS" -unknown scriptwrighter

The thing is, both can be valid...

Huh? Facts are sometimes valid, and sometimes not? Nah. Facts are just that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger%27s_cat