After another look, I still think Maz is a Yoda-species... Just with her ears tucked in

Also, was Han ever said to be an imperial pilot in the OT? I thought his background was all EU.

There's no canon source, apparently, for his being a trained TIE pilot.

Hans pants have the red stripe indicating he's the graduate of an imperial academy.

That's been a part of his background for 30 years.

Hans pants have the red stripe indicating he's the graduate of an imperial academy.

That's been a part of his background for 30 years.

But not in canon, unless you can find a reference I couldn't on Wookieepedia.

It's also been part of Luke's background that he and Mara Jade became a couple, but Mara Jade does not currently exist in canon.

Arica is still in ROTJ, even if she isn't named in the credits.

Han's academy training might have been similar to Ezra's on Lothal, as a young man and leaving before he was qualified. I doubt he graduated, and even if he did he wasn't necessarily an officer or pilot.

I liked it. Need to see it again. And again.

I feel like Snoke is pulling a 'great and powerful Oz', and will end up the size of Yoda.

I'm about 1/3rd through the Bacta War and the Resistance feels a lot like Rogue squadron having left the Republic to fight a foe the politicians can't touch. Torching half a dozen unnamed worlds in the Whatever System probably motivates the Republic to stand up and support the effort overtly going forward.

I got a brief Start Trek vibe from the guy talking oscillator jargon. Made me smile.

Keeping the destruction of the super weapon quick keeps it from being a 3rd movie centered around those weapons. But the larger threat gave a catalyst to show the good characters are in it for the big picture, staying at the base after saving Rey to assist the fighters and the whole mission. I liked it more than i expected to. And a more complicated threat would have hurt character development as exposition would have been needed for it too/instead.

The fighter battles were fun but too short.

Mara Jade probably didn't tell Luke he had a daughter. Ditched her on Jakku to keep her safe.

C-3P0 has a personality! Put him, BB-8, R2-D2, and Chopper in some droid tales and I'd watch now, previously I wanted him out of that picture.

Why wasn't Finn in a bacta tank!?

Rey was holding the saber backwards if she was trying to hand it to Luke.

It's about my only complaint about the film that the only thing Snoke (terrible name) can be is an evil Yoda.

That is so predictable a setup, and no doubt won't be fully revealed until ep9.

Probably minutes before Darth Cadeus throws him down a big hole.

I also really really hope Rey is not a Skywalker.

She clearly will be though. Again, what can they do story wise?

They make such a deal about being abandoned by her parents, that has to go somewhere plot wise. And she can't just be Rey Smith.

And we all know...there...is...another...sky....walk...er...

Arica is still in ROTJ, even if she isn't named in the credits.

Han's academy training might have been similar to Ezra's on Lothal, as a young man and leaving before he was qualified. I doubt he graduated, and even if he did he wasn't necessarily an officer or pilot.

You mean an unnamed extra is designated by fans to be Arica who supposedly is Mara Jade in disguise.

Again, I like Mara Jade, but let's not kid ourselves and say she is canon.

There's a lot of stuff we like, a lot of characters we like, who have been retconned into the movies, but those retcons have been invalidated as much as the rest of the EU.

It's about my only complaint about the film that the only thing Snoke (terrible name) can be is an evil Yoda.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, and I'm certain someone must have already discussed this theory in this thread, but contrary to your statement I think the only thing Supreme Leader Snoke the Wise (he's so wise!) can be is Darth Plagueis the Wise who mastered life and death through the force, fooled Palpatine into thinking he killed him so that he could get around the rule of two (really, Palpatine, you think such a powerful Sith would just let you kill him in his sleep?), created Anakin from the Force, and has been quietly observing events from the sideline until, of course, his Force project Anakin turned back to the lightside and died. Now Snoke/Plagueis is using Anakin's grandson to take Luke out of the picture and resume his project to some end goal we don't know about yet.

Quite different from an "evil Yoda" if you ask me, and a genius way to tie all three trilogies together. (please don't ruin this, Disney...)

I liked it. Need to see it again. And again.

I feel like Snoke is pulling a 'great and powerful Oz', and will end up the size of Yoda.

I'm about 1/3rd through the Bacta War and the Resistance feels a lot like Rogue squadron having left the Republic to fight a foe the politicians can't touch. Torching half a dozen unnamed worlds in the Whatever System probably motivates the Republic to stand up and support the effort overtly going forward.

I got a brief Start Trek vibe from the guy talking oscillator jargon. Made me smile.

Keeping the destruction of the super weapon quick keeps it from being a 3rd movie centered around those weapons. But the larger threat gave a catalyst to show the good characters are in it for the big picture, staying at the base after saving Rey to assist the fighters and the whole mission. I liked it more than i expected to. And a more complicated threat would have hurt character development as exposition would have been needed for it too/instead.

The fighter battles were fun but too short.

Mara Jade probably didn't tell Luke he had a daughter. Ditched her on Jakku to keep her safe.

C-3P0 has a personality! Put him, BB-8, R2-D2, and Chopper in some droid tales and I'd watch now, previously I wanted him out of that picture.

Why wasn't Finn in a bacta tank!?

Rey was holding the saber backwards if she was trying to hand it to Luke.

It's about my only complaint about the film that the only thing Snoke (terrible name) can be is an evil Yoda.

That is so predictable a setup, and no doubt won't be fully revealed until ep9.

Probably minutes before Darth Cadeus throws him down a big hole.

I also really really hope Rey is not a Skywalker.

She clearly will be though. Again, what can they do story wise?

They make such a deal about being abandoned by her parents, that has to go somewhere plot wise. And she can't just be Rey Smith.

And we all know...there...is...another...sky....walk...er...

I had the same thoughts. I get that the SW story line is a family history, but it would be refreshing to follow another bloodline.

OK, so I've just seen it and it left me wondering about a few things. I'm not a fan of JJ Abrams for one, as he tends to rely on flashy effects to carry him through, and this was no exception. But I felt like I'd just watched episodes 4, 5 and 6 all rolled into one.

We had yet another Death Star, only bigger. We had yet another trench run, only faster. We saw X-wings fighting with TIE Fighters, but not much else when it came to ships. The shots of the First Order star destroyers didn't really convey their size the way George Lucas managed to do. I think that was a JJ Abrams fail point. I think he just used the wrong angle. Were they supposed to be big or medium or what?

We had Threepio with a red arm which he apologised for, but which was miraculously back to normal the next time we see him, so why bother about it to start with? I understand it was something he acquired in a comic storyline, but did it need to be carried through to the film?

Considering how cantankerous the Millennium Falcon used to be for Han and Chewie to keep it running, it now takes an astonishing amount of pummeling for a ship that had been sitting for a couple of decades. More than what I thought would have been remotely possible. We see it bounced off of sand dunes, crashed through a forest and slammed into snow, and yet it still flies. I wish my car was made of the same stuff. Oh and now it's possible to go to lightspeed while in the hangar of another ship. And drop out of hyperspace in a planet's atmosphere. It seems hyperspace travel has been refined somewhat in thirty years.

Supreme Leader Snoke: I don't know where the name came from but it sounds like something you'd call a small white kitten, not an all powerful villainous entity.

Rey: Aside from the speculation as to her parentage, her ability with a lightsabre was impressive, and that's before she remembered to use the force. She should have been sliced and diced, but I guess that would have killed the whole story right there. The Force Awakens... <slice> ... but only for a moment.

Finn: Also impressive with a lightsabre, even though he would have been unlikely to have had any weapon training remotely close to that. He's the accidental hero in the story that stumbles into the action trying to save the day, but doesn't quite. I hope they develop this character because I can see the potential could be there.

Kylo Ren: Somewhat disappointing as a villain. Powerful with the force. Able to stop blaster bolts, even. But two lightsabre novices still seemed to give him a challenge. OK, so he was wounded as well, but for one so powerful with the force, I would have thought he'd rely on that when the physical was failing him.

Poe: What a pilot! I think I saw him smoke about six TIEs in about six seconds. It seems he has the reflexes of a Jedi (to quote Qui-gon Jin). I understand he was supposed to have died in the TIE crash on Jakku in the original story draft. But then he's suddenly back, and just in time to save the day. Maybe he's a replacement for Wedge Antilles, as Denis Lawson wasn't keen to reprise that role. And the good guys have a hot shot pilot. But is that all for him? I dunno. That's my speculation for what it's worth.

When General Hux was addressing the massed troops in front of the huge red banners and spouting his rhetoric, did it really have to resemble the Nuremburg rallies of the 1930s so much? That one just looked so cliched it was almost funny.

Luke's lightsabre: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the one he lost in Cloud City on Bespin, right? How was that retrieved I wonder?

On the whole, not a bad movie. But not what I was expecting by a long shot. And it did leave me asking "why?" a few too many times.

Luke's lightsabre: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the one he lost in Cloud City on Bespin, right? How was that retrieved I wonder?

One could assume that a weapon would have been turned over to the Bespin guard tower after discovery. The real question is, who was in charge of Bespin, that Luke had to build a new lightsabre because he couldn't get Anakin's back?

Luke's lightsabre: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the one he lost in Cloud City on Bespin, right? How was that retrieved I wonder?

One could assume that a weapon would have been turned over to the Bespin guard tower after discovery. The real question is, who was in charge of Bespin, that Luke had to build a new lightsabre because he couldn't get Anakin's back?

It struck me that people have probably be hunting for Skywalker family relics. Kylo Ren has recovered Vaders burnt helmet and Maz had Anakin/Luke's saber.

Luke's severed hand was the basis for his clone in the Zahn novels. Make of that what you will.

I don't think we ever heard of someone not being able to jump out of a ships, I doubt it would have enough mass to stop something.

And jump to high up enough into an atmosphere might work, do we have canon information saying different?

A lot of what we know, our conceptions, are formed by the EU.

The fans truly must unlearn what they have learned.

Saw it on monday and still a little numb at how lazy and cheap it was. If I wanted to see lasers and explosions I'd hop on youtube. Kylo Ren(about the only thing in the movie with depth in it) was an interesting character ruined by an actors need for his face to be out there, the unmasking should've only been when facing Han. None of the villains were threatening or had any menace to them except the CGI cartoon that was Snoke... who was ruined by being a cartoonishly bad CGI thing. As was the Kazamazoo thing, the "totally not Yoda" (I thought we weren't doing the bad CGI anymore JJ? That's what you told us). Nothing was explained and the conveniences and coincidences that the plot relied on snaps it in half.

But this movie wasn't made for us, those of us who like good movies, it was made for people to sit down an see lasers and explosions and laugh when they throw Phasma in the garbage(a better metaphor for the character I could never find). It has the same faults of the prequels but hides them better with explosions and "LOOK IT"S HAN SOLO! AND HE'S BEING FUNNY!".

If this thing beats Mad Max for any awards then you know the fix is in.

It struck me that people have probably be hunting for Skywalker family relics. Kylo Ren has recovered Vaders burnt helmet and Maz had Anakin/Luke's saber.

I'm convinced that Luke actually went back and got it himself at some point after RotJ. I think the vision Rey saw was from the point of view of the lightsaber, so Luke would have had it when he was kneeling near the fire. Then he left it on Jakku for Rey, but Unkarr sold it at some point and it eventually ended up with Maz who recognized what it was. Either that or Luke left it with Maz for safekeeping when he gave up being a Jedi after he dropped off Rey. I know I'm making a lot of assumptions, but it makes the most sense to me at the moment.

Indeed. As I understood it, Rey's visions were from the perspective of whoever was holding the lightsaber at that deeply significant point - so she's Anakin lying on the burning rocks on Mustafar, she's Luke in the Bespin undercity corridors, she's herself later in the woods outside Starkiller Base.....

.....She's [?Probably Luke?] on the battlefield where the Knights of Ren have murdered everyone (the rest of the new Jedi order?)..

....And she's someone who was sat at the fire with Luke and R2-D2. Who is presumably whoever the saber was left with before it ended up in Maz' trunk (might well have been Maz, for all we know). What we don't know yet is why that was a deeply significant point. If we assume it was Jakku, then maybe it was him finding out where the first temple was and deciding to leave - and it might well be that the 'self' in that part of the vision was Lor San Tekka (Max Von Sydow).

It struck me that people have probably be hunting for Skywalker family relics. Kylo Ren has recovered Vaders burnt helmet and Maz had Anakin/Luke's saber.

If people are looking for any clue to where Luke went, quite possibly.

The real question is, who was in charge of Bespin, that Luke had to build a new lightsabre because he couldn't get Anakin's back?

We don't know. The Empire was taking over the city, though - and to be fair, he might not have known it had been found for years, if ever.

I had the same thoughts. I get that the SW story line is a family history, but it would be refreshing to follow another bloodline.

Except you probably can't just pull one out of thin air. I agree that making her a Skywalker makes sense, but it also feels too easy because of that. If you're trying for an episode 8 'shock twist' anything on a par with "I am your father", it needs to be something different, because that's what everyone's expecting.

Plus, we already have the conflicted skywalker bloodline individual in the person of Ben Solo/Kylo Ren.

With how ridiculously strong in the force she appears to be, one part of me would like her to be a descendant of Palpatine. Given how the first order is obsessed with the now-near-mythical status of the Emperor and Vader, that'd put the cat amongst the pigeons....

OK, so I've just seen it and it left me wondering about a few things. I'm not a fan of JJ Abrams for one, as he tends to rely on flashy effects to carry him through, and this was no exception. But I felt like I'd just watched episodes 4, 5 and 6 all rolled into one.

We had yet another Death Star, only bigger. We had yet another trench run, only faster. We saw X-wings fighting with TIE Fighters, but not much else when it came to ships. The shots of the First Order star destroyers didn't really convey their size the way George Lucas managed to do. I think that was a JJ Abrams fail point. I think he just used the wrong angle. Were they supposed to be big or medium or what?

We had Threepio with a red arm which he apologised for, but which was miraculously back to normal the next time we see him, so why bother about it to start with? I understand it was something he acquired in a comic storyline, but did it need to be carried through to the film?

Considering how cantankerous the Millennium Falcon used to be for Han and Chewie to keep it running, it now takes an astonishing amount of pummeling for a ship that had been sitting for a couple of decades. More than what I thought would have been remotely possible. We see it bounced off of sand dunes, crashed through a forest and slammed into snow, and yet it still flies. I wish my car was made of the same stuff. Oh and now it's possible to go to lightspeed while in the hangar of another ship. And drop out of hyperspace in a planet's atmosphere. It seems hyperspace travel has been refined somewhat in thirty years.

Supreme Leader Snoke: I don't know where the name came from but it sounds like something you'd call a small white kitten, not an all powerful villainous entity.

Rey: Aside from the speculation as to her parentage, her ability with a lightsabre was impressive, and that's before she remembered to use the force. She should have been sliced and diced, but I guess that would have killed the whole story right there. The Force Awakens... <slice> ... but only for a moment.

Finn: Also impressive with a lightsabre, even though he would have been unlikely to have had any weapon training remotely close to that. He's the accidental hero in the story that stumbles into the action trying to save the day, but doesn't quite. I hope they develop this character because I can see the potential could be there.

Kylo Ren: Somewhat disappointing as a villain. Powerful with the force. Able to stop blaster bolts, even. But two lightsabre novices still seemed to give him a challenge. OK, so he was wounded as well, but for one so powerful with the force, I would have thought he'd rely on that when the physical was failing him.

Poe: What a pilot! I think I saw him smoke about six TIEs in about six seconds. It seems he has the reflexes of a Jedi (to quote Qui-gon Jin). I understand he was supposed to have died in the TIE crash on Jakku in the original story draft. But then he's suddenly back, and just in time to save the day. Maybe he's a replacement for Wedge Antilles, as Denis Lawson wasn't keen to reprise that role. And the good guys have a hot shot pilot. But is that all for him? I dunno. That's my speculation for what it's worth.

When General Hux was addressing the massed troops in front of the huge red banners and spouting his rhetoric, did it really have to resemble the Nuremburg rallies of the 1930s so much? That one just looked so cliched it was almost funny.

Luke's lightsabre: Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that was the one he lost in Cloud City on Bespin, right? How was that retrieved I wonder?

On the whole, not a bad movie. But not what I was expecting by a long shot. And it did leave me asking "why?" a few too many times.

We do see Ray beating the hell out of some people with her trusty beating stick so she had self taught prowess with melee weapons seemingly.

Kylo Ren seemingly has raw forcec prowess but we actually see him being a badass only vs. forceless foes, and he only seems to know a few tricks. They're snazzy like freezing things in place and interrogating people but he's clearly pretty untrained and not great against anyone remotely force sensitive or competent in melee fighting. I think his relative rawness and lack of training also comes through since he didn't, as you said, use the force to aid him when he was wounded other than a nifty push early against Rei.

Edit: Kylo also seemed pretty bent on converting rather than killing Rey, which played into things too I think.

On the whole, not a bad movie. But not what I was expecting by a long shot. And it did leave me asking "why?" a few too many times.

The story does raise questions simply because there are big gaps. I feel there are three causes for that:

- Everything is told at such speed that there is very little time for explanation.

- Apparently, there is a lot of history between ep. VI and VII. It's probably a commercial thing. It looks like this movie ties in to books thay I never read, and have perhaps not even been published.

- Some things are just kept dark on purpose, for the next sequel.

So TFA is anything but a reboot. It is anchored in the Star Wars saga. In fact, I'm surprised (and pleased) that people who hardly know Star Wars apparently enjoy it.

I really liked the movie. My gripes were fairly minor things that I believe could have been addressed with another 10-15 minutes of runtime.

1. So what's the situation/relationship with the Republic and the Resistance? (I realize that this is better addressed in the novelization and other sources, but it's really poorly done in the film)

2. Why is Rey so great at literally everything she does or tries for the first time? They should have added SOME kind of negative aspect to her character. I don't like to throw Mary Sue out as often as a lot of people, and I don't think Rey is one, but they sure make her look like one in this movie. I realize that the new movies will probably mostly revolve around her and she will get more fleshed out, but ****, it's hard to feel any connection with a character that has no flaws (at this point).

2. No space battles, and only T70 X-wings and the weird B-wing transport for the "good guys." That's honestly only really a complaint because X-Wing Miniatures and Armada exist. The battles that were in the film were pretty fun.

Poe: What a pilot! I think I saw him smoke about six TIEs in about six seconds. It seems he has the reflexes of a Jedi (to quote Qui-gon Jin). I understand he was supposed to have died in the TIE crash on Jakku in the original story draft. But then he's suddenly back, and just in time to save the day. Maybe he's a replacement for Wedge Antilles, as Denis Lawson wasn't keen to reprise that role. And the good guys have a hot shot pilot. But is that all for him? I dunno. That's my speculation for what it's worth.

Poe, Rey, and Finn all have stories in a new book called Before the Awakening. At Star Wars celebration VII, the actors for those characters were the only ones who came on stage for the opening ceremony. Near as I can tell, Rey, Poe, and Finn will be the main characters of this trilogy. I believe we'll see a lot more of Poe Dameron.

As was the Kazamazoo thing, the "totally not Yoda" (I thought we weren't doing the bad CGI anymore JJ? That's what you told us). Nothing was explained and the conveniences and coincidences that the plot relied on snaps it in half.

My understanding (and it is only a rumor) is that they tried to make a physical model work for Maz Kanata but it just wasn't looking right, so they went CG and liked it a lot better.

I've been doing a lot of thinking about (IMO) the biggest fault of the movie: thecmasdive sins of convenience

It's something I always struggled with as a writer, juggling essential info with unnecessary crap that would bore the reader or ruin the experience by explaining too much

ANH also had several sins of this nature, some of which TFA repeats, biggest one being:

Who the **** doesn't protect their planet cracker!?!?

In ANH you kinda get it because of budget constraints and heavy turbolasers seemingly made for larger-than-xwing targets

Problem is the FO have history on their side and , even with the republic fleet seemingly destroyed (though we don't see the ships) it'd be an arrogance that catapults straight into stupidity

Some other things that threatened to snap my suspension of disbelief:

Probably the biggest one is basically Han's entire intro, from finding them to being boarded by both gangs (though the banter redeemed it a bit)

The yt class freighter that fin and rey lucked into just HAD to be the falcon instead of some generic POS. All they needed was the scene Of Fin and Rey working together and coming closer for it. Han could have been met in any number of ways

There are cameras on Han's transport but not aboard the FO destroyer when rey's running around

The T-70 just jump in right into Star killer's atmosphere and no one saw them coming.

And so on

But I believe the greatest takeaway from this is, even if it stretches crudlity, TFA cut THE RIGHT THINGS

By contrast, the prequels cut all of anakin's + obi wan's bonding, and basically any attempt that characterization outside anakin revenge killing the sand people.

"And he was a good friend..."

If TFA had skimped on the celebrations of Finn + Poe or Finn + Rey or basically any of Finn's interactions with the other characters (especially loved Han's "thing about women, they eventually find out the truth"), the movie would've been far worse off

A beginning is a very delicate time. Know then that it is the year 10,191. The KnownUniverse is ruled by the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV, my father. In this time, the most precious substance in the universe is the spice Melange. The spice extends life. The spice expands consciousness. The spice is vital to space travel. The Spacing Guild and its navigators, who the spice has mutated over 4,000 years, use the orange spice gas, which gives them the ability to fold space. That is, travel to any part of universe without moving.
Oh, yes. I forgot to tell you — the spice exists on only one planet in the entire universe. A desolate, dry planet with vast deserts. Hidden away within the rocks of these deserts are apeople known as the Fremen, who have long held a prophecy that a man would come, amessiah who would lead them to true freedom. The planet is Arrakis, also known as Dune.

30 years have passed, the audience knows that. but we don't know sh*t what happened. IMO they could have taken 30seconds to at least explain a few things, like what happened to the empire, to the new republic etc. instead we are asking "why this and that?" far too often. a little intro would have gone a long way IMO.

or explain it later.. but you enter the movie without knowing anything, and leave it with know not that much more. meh.

also, the music. where was that epic starwars-music? I know it was there, somewhere, but got drowned in explosions, text etc. for me, a big part of ep.4+ is that somebody had an idea where and when to use the great compositions and scale the rest back, and when not.

I know this is not 197x/198x, but it is still starwars. and music is a big part of it. always was, always will be. drowning it like that was not the best decision, IMO.

I just want to know if there's imperial Remenant out there as mentioned in aftermath, or if they all consolidated and formed into the first order??

Luke's severed hand was the basis for his clone in the Zahn novels. Make of that what you will.

I don't think we ever heard of someone not being able to jump out of a ships, I doubt it would have enough mass to stop something.

And jump to high up enough into an atmosphere might work, do we have canon information saying different?

A lot of what we know, our conceptions, are formed by the EU.

The fans truly must unlearn what they have learned.

No ship that small has a cloaking device!

I just want to know if there's imperial Remenant out there as mentioned in aftermath, or if they all consolidated and formed into the first order??

Listen to the characters and read the opening crawl. It says the FO rose from the ashes of the Empire, so the empire is no more. The republic supports the Resistence and has not attacked the FO directly, but they never mention a treaty. Hux says the Republic was lying to the Galaxy. We are told a lot of things and for the rest, well, we have to THINK. Yes, I'm sorry, this is one of those movies that does ask us to connect the dots and figure things out on our own. It's also part one of three (or 7 of nine..no, not voyager!) so Snoke and Rey's parents and other mysteries are waiting to be explained in movies to come. Maz said it best, those are stories for another time.

And why does everyone hate Maz? Thought her cgi was way ahead of the prequels and Snoke, I could believe she had weight and was there, the actress who was motion-captured did an excellent job. Who wouldn't love a little old pirate lady who has obviously retired from the Galaxy and hangs out in a creepy-cool castle with scum and villainy...and Han and Chewie. I love Maz.

And why does everyone hate Maz? Thought her cgi was way ahead of the prequels and Snoke, I could believe she had weight and was there, the actress who was motion-captured did an excellent job. Who wouldn't love a little old pirate lady who has obviously retired from the Galaxy and hangs out in a creepy-cool castle with scum and villainy...and Han and Chewie. I love Maz.

ikr?