Has anyone actually got around to buying 5 packs of Scum and Villainy?

Has anyone actually got around to buying 5 packs of Scum and Villainy?

I'm sure there actually has believe it or not. Also keep in mind there's a fair amount of trading going on. I for one capitalized on the expected Firespray/H6 crazy to get an extra YT-2400 and HWK-290.

Has anyone actually got around to buying 5 packs of Scum and Villainy?

I've got four, and I dont see the need for more as an imperial. I can make more than 4 firesprays work, because you need rhymer, Dengar or two jumpmasters, and Vader/two advances to make it work

I have 2 bit might get as many as 6. (still tempted to get a full Firespray array. . . )

From my viewpoint the b-wing are not a cpunter for the ball.

Force them to come with objetives or not playing their game. Kill them with AA + ball.

Go fight close quarters the ball with intel can engage the bs and continue shooting the ships. Add the isd firepower and it's likely the moncal will go down faster then isd.

Not as easy of course and take into account no plan survives dice gods ... as we all know.

Just some observations about Fire/Rhymer Balls in general from play experience:

-Unless you spend an equivalent number of points in fighters then the ball is probably gonna eat some of your ships.

-They love to eat up high priced, lower durability ships. AFIIs, Gladiators, MC30s, etc... Big Ships like the ISD's and MC80 can at least take the beating for a few rounds as long as the repair commands are coming. They'll completely destroy a corvette or raider but then again so does the Demolisher and that's not a really efficient use of points.

-A well flown Classic Rhymer Ball with /Corruptor/Chiraneu is actually harder to counter and tie up than Fireball due to speed and non reliance on Intel. But it's way harder to use and your opponent can always just go straight for the VSD.

-You run fighter light, you have to play extremely aggressively against the ball. Running Fire/Rhymer ball means they have a quarter less in ships you have to kill to win. Stop trying to save every ship and go for the phyrric victory if necessary.

-When playing against the ball while fighter light, look at the ball like it's another ISD. For some reason losing an AFII in a round to the ball seems more painful than to an ISD. The ball should absolutely be able to kill things but you don't have to kill it to win. Your game is now a race against time and even slowing that the ball down 1 turn can help.

-Aggressive play in my area has made pure 10-0 wins are far less common now.

Experiment:

-Treating the Fire/Rhymer ball as another Star Destroyer, if you actually devoted your ships to killing. While it's nice to think about throwing fighters at it, I'm wondering if you devoted your ships to killing it how well that would work out. The Gunnery team AFIIB has always been popular. What if you run 3 AFIIA (my comment on how fireball likes to eat expensive midline ships nonwithstanding) with gunnery teams and devote 1 of your 2 shots against the fireball? Over two rounds you may just lose a AFII but your AA should have put out enough damage to seriously defang the fireball and earn back a decent chunck of points

Aggressive plays is actually a good way to go in this game. One of the people I play against brought this up a week ago and I am learning to agree with him.

Just some observations about Fire/Rhymer Balls in general from play experience:

-Unless you spend an equivalent number of points in fighters then the ball is probably gonna eat some of your ships.

-They love to eat up high priced, lower durability ships. AFIIs, Gladiators, MC30s, etc... Big Ships like the ISD's and MC80 can at least take the beating for a few rounds as long as the repair commands are coming. They'll completely destroy a corvette or raider but then again so does the Demolisher and that's not a really efficient use of points.

-A well flown Classic Rhymer Ball with /Corruptor/Chiraneu is actually harder to counter and tie up than Fireball due to speed and non reliance on Intel. But it's way harder to use and your opponent can always just go straight for the VSD.

-You run fighter light, you have to play extremely aggressively against the ball. Running Fire/Rhymer ball means they have a quarter less in ships you have to kill to win. Stop trying to save every ship and go for the phyrric victory if necessary.

-When playing against the ball while fighter light, look at the ball like it's another ISD. For some reason losing an AFII in a round to the ball seems more painful than to an ISD. The ball should absolutely be able to kill things but you don't have to kill it to win. Your game is now a race against time and even slowing that the ball down 1 turn can help.

-Aggressive play in my area has made pure 10-0 wins are far less common now.

Experiment:

-Treating the Fire/Rhymer ball as another Star Destroyer, if you actually devoted your ships to killing. While it's nice to think about throwing fighters at it, I'm wondering if you devoted your ships to killing it how well that would work out. The Gunnery team AFIIB has always been popular. What if you run 3 AFIIA (my comment on how fireball likes to eat expensive midline ships nonwithstanding) with gunnery teams and devote 1 of your 2 shots against the fireball? Over two rounds you may just lose a AFII but your AA should have put out enough damage to seriously defang the fireball and earn back a decent chunck of points

I like the mindset of considering a RB "another ISD" as it will often represent the same amount of points. Its an ISD that can move very aggressively and only fire at medium range. It also has no shields and roughly 6 hull points that can't suffer crits as damage and averages out the dice. when put like that, dedicating a few arcs of anti-squadron from a few ships does not seem like a dangerous waste of anti-ship fire but a common-sense way to chop down an opponents points and threat level.

One big difference between moving squadrons and moving ships is that controllers are not limited to templates, so I believe that the people who are most successful with squadrons Wave 2 will be those with the greatest ability to effectively maneuver them.

In hindsight, I imagine this was also true in Wave 1, although I never really dove into them like I am now; but the addition of Intel just blows everything up and makes the simple play of engaging bombers much more challenging. I frickin' love the addition of 'sprays and scurgg and Jan and Deng and...

Aggressive plays is actually a good way to go in this game. One of the people I play against brought this up a week ago and I am learning to agree with him.

That's how I use my rebels. Though with wave 2 I may have to change it a bit. Aim your front and side ark at the enemy front. Then just start shooting and ramming with repair commands. One of the two ships will fall. I hope to play more now post wave 2 with this plan to see if it works well under multiple tests.

Just FYI, just a few words for advice on objectives if you are running fighter light and you don't have the initiative.

Don't ever take/choose Precision Strike, Fleet Ambush, or Superior Positions. Each of those missions either give the Rhymer/Fire Ball free points and or just let them swamp you a turn sooner.

Precision Strike can also mean points for you as well. While it sounds bad because it has the Bomber keyword in it, it is still strong when used correctly.

Precision Strike can also mean points for you as well. While it sounds bad because it has the Bomber keyword in it, it is still strong when used correctly.

Of course you have to weigh the options but generally it's important to not magnify the effect of the Rhymerball. You don't want to give it free points for doing what it already likes to do. Going fighter light against the Rhymer ball means you want to get the points from killing ships first, objectives second.

I've been watching this thread with great interest and have been trying to come up with some solutions.

Honestly, it aggravates me to no end that one faction can spend 120ish points and roll over me unless I specifically prep for it and I think it points to what's become very OP squad combos on the Imperial side. It unduly affects how I can build fleets and the strategies I can employ, because now I have to sink at least 70ish points just to have a chance at delay/counter. It limits competitive experimentation.

Having got that out of my system, I should say that I'm going to continue to look for those other options, but I resent the feeling of being railroaded in list building.

Anyway, here's some ideas that are sort of an amalgam of what I've seen in the thread. I could use some help on objectives and the build.

There is an alternate version replaces the named squads for 5 generic A's and keeps the same capital ship set up.

Wave 2 Rhymer Counter

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- XI7 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

2 A-Wing Squadrons ( 22 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

-------------/-------------

It breaks my heart to drop Ackbar and X17's, but this offers a more robust AS layout.

Wave 2 Rhymer Counter v3

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 397/400

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Advanced Gunnery

Defense Objective: Fire Lanes

Navigation Objective: Dangerous Territory

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Garm Bel Iblis ( 25 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Gunnery Team ( 7 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

1 "Dutch" Vander ( 16 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

4 X-Wing Squadrons ( 52 points)

Fleet created with Armada Warlords

There's only one cure for the Fireball!

I see it now... The Rebel Tinactin-class anti-squad ship.

Maybe something like this?

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Gallant Haven ( 8 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Quad Laser Turrets ( 5 points)

- Cluster Bombs ( 5 points)

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)

Throw this straight at the Ball?

I've been watching this thread with great interest and have been trying to come up with some solutions.

Honestly, it aggravates me to no end that one faction can spend 120ish points and roll over me unless I specifically prep for it and I think it points to what's become very OP squad combos on the Imperial side. It unduly affects how I can build fleets and the strategies I can employ, because now I have to sink at least 70ish points just to have a chance at delay/counter. It limits competitive experimentation.

Having got that out of my system, I should say that I'm going to continue to look for those other options, but I resent the feeling of being railroaded in list building.

I think I've fallen under this train of thought as well, since I'd rather have more ships that can contribute to the battle. However, I think that with the recent changes with the meta and the Rhymer squad rising in power, we all need to be very careful who we're taking to the fight.

At this point, do you think Tycho + 4 or 6 A-Wings is best?

I'm going to play tonight and am going to see if one of our Imp players will run a Rhymer variant with Dengar. I think I'll try 6 A's first. Tycho is certainly going to be a factor, quick movement, especially if you can force Dengar to split his attention, so that'll be next.

>shrug< We'll see what happens.

What do you think of the very expensive Gallant Haven w/ a minimum of 3 A's? This doesn't preclude other fighters being added, I just saw it as a unit that moves together. Maybe even with Raymus to really max out dials when it matters.

That's such a hard choice. I love Tycho's survivability, and with the extra points you can slap on Expanded Hangars and bunch them all under one MC80 Command. However, those points spent on EH and Tycho don't do anything to help kill.

I don't know how well this will do bit I'm hoping to try out MC80 Command, MC30 and Corvette ship fleet tooled up quite a bit. Then added 4xAs and 2xXwings. Hopefully that should be okay anti fighter with the ability to hit ships if needed. Squadrons are 70 points. Think it will be ok to tie up/put a dent into the fireball.

But don't ask me.....I'm pretty drunk right now.

As someone who runs a Fireball [Rhymer/Dengar/4xSpray] the thing I fear most is numbers. The greatest advantage I have gotten out of the 'ball is freedom of location, which lets me use the objectives to my benefit. I don't worry about losing them to damage, or losing Rhymer, or Dengar even, since they will probably trade enough damage to earn those points back against the aggressors. I worry about a chain of cheap fighters locking them in place long enough to make that tradeoff not worth it.

So far I have lucked out and only faced 4-6 fighters against it. At that, Dengar is immediately the target, then Rhymer. The predictability lets me counter-maneuver your own screen, since I know who your targets will be and I can potentially lag the Firesprays back just enough to Mop up instead of engage First. If the Fighters came in sufficient waves, that wouldn't be viable.

Deployment will make a large difference in my level of worry as well. I suppose I could try to escort the Ball with the Raiders, which may still let them serve as skirmishers, but then I lose using one as a trailer.

I suppose my favorite benefit of the Fireball is flexibility, and I use Fireball because even without Rhymer 4x Sprays is nothing to sneeze at. I am using him to support someone else that almost doesn't need it. I feel like Rhymer/Dengar is sort of an Imperial Fighter Giftbasket that every Admiral should try to fit on their list if possible.

That's such a hard choice. I love Tycho's survivability, and with the extra points you can slap on Expanded Hangars and bunch them all under one MC80 Command. However, those points spent on EH and Tycho don't do anything to help kill.

I was thinking that if I take Tycho, I can also take the Tantive IV on one of my CR90s so he can throw the extra token onto the MC80 for pseudo-5 on second turn activation while the MC80 nav tokens for later. After the sling on turn 2, I could also spend the nav token to re-position and then play normal from there.

As someone who runs a Fireball [Rhymer/Dengar/4xSpray] the thing I fear most is numbers. The greatest advantage I have gotten out of the 'ball is freedom of location, which lets me use the objectives to my benefit. I don't worry about losing them to damage, or losing Rhymer, or Dengar even, since they will probably trade enough damage to earn those points back against the aggressors. I worry about a chain of cheap fighters locking them in place long enough to make that tradeoff not worth it.

So far I have lucked out and only faced 4-6 fighters against it. At that, Dengar is immediately the target, then Rhymer. The predictability lets me counter-maneuver your own screen, since I know who your targets will be and I can potentially lag the Firesprays back just enough to Mop up instead of engage First. If the Fighters came in sufficient waves, that wouldn't be viable.

Deployment will make a large difference in my level of worry as well. I suppose I could try to escort the Ball with the Raiders, which may still let them serve as skirmishers, but then I lose using one as a trailer.

I suppose my favorite benefit of the Fireball is flexibility, and I use Fireball because even without Rhymer 4x Sprays is nothing to sneeze at. I am using him to support someone else that almost doesn't need it. I feel like Rhymer/Dengar is sort of an Imperial Fighter Giftbasket that every Admiral should try to fit on their list if possible.

I agree with this, and partially why the Fireball is so powerful is its flexibility. If your opponent brings a token screen, you can pretty much just ignore the incoming damage. If your opponent brings a medium screen (like 5-6 fighters), you have to worry about it a little, but not enough to change your strategy. Only when your opponent has a equal number in force, do you need to alter your strategy from killing ships to tackling the new threat. In summary, the damage and threat of the Fireball changes from insane, to high, to medium, because even with a dedicated fighting force, Dengar and the boys have enough tools to deal with most decent squadrons. Firesprays are basically autonomous Imperial B-Wings at that point, and with Dengar giving a Counter 1 bubble, they behave like 4-attack dice fighters.

I've tried Tycho + 3 A-Wings, and I think I'm going to up that number to 1+4 for my next go. I'm going to take it slow, as taking any additional fighters will essentially force the entire list and playstyle to change.

Either way, without the generic durability of Tycho, Rebel players will need to look at 6 fighters and above to stay competitive these days.

As someone who runs a Fireball [Rhymer/Dengar/4xSpray] the thing I fear most is numbers. The greatest advantage I have gotten out of the 'ball is freedom of location, which lets me use the objectives to my benefit. I don't worry about losing them to damage, or losing Rhymer, or Dengar even, since they will probably trade enough damage to earn those points back against the aggressors. I worry about a chain of cheap fighters locking them in place long enough to make that tradeoff not worth it.

So far I have lucked out and only faced 4-6 fighters against it. At that, Dengar is immediately the target, then Rhymer. The predictability lets me counter-maneuver your own screen, since I know who your targets will be and I can potentially lag the Firesprays back just enough to Mop up instead of engage First. If the Fighters came in sufficient waves, that wouldn't be viable.

Deployment will make a large difference in my level of worry as well. I suppose I could try to escort the Ball with the Raiders, which may still let them serve as skirmishers, but then I lose using one as a trailer.

I suppose my favorite benefit of the Fireball is flexibility, and I use Fireball because even without Rhymer 4x Sprays is nothing to sneeze at. I am using him to support someone else that almost doesn't need it. I feel like Rhymer/Dengar is sort of an Imperial Fighter Giftbasket that every Admiral should try to fit on their list if possible.

I agree with this, and partially why the Fireball is so powerful is its flexibility. If your opponent brings a token screen, you can pretty much just ignore the incoming damage. If your opponent brings a medium screen (like 5-6 fighters), you have to worry about it a little, but not enough to change your strategy. Only when your opponent has a equal number in force, do you need to alter your strategy from killing ships to tackling the new threat. In summary, the damage and threat of the Fireball changes from insane, to high, to medium, because even with a dedicated fighting force, Dengar and the boys have enough tools to deal with most decent squadrons. Firesprays are basically autonomous Imperial B-Wings at that point, and with Dengar giving a Counter 1 bubble, they behave like 4-attack dice fighters.

I've tried Tycho + 3 A-Wings, and I think I'm going to up that number to 1+4 for my next go. I'm going to take it slow, as taking any additional fighters will essentially force the entire list and playstyle to change.

Either way, without the generic durability of Tycho, Rebel players will need to look at 6 fighters and above to stay competitive these days.

Then build a list that is a punishment to the Fireball builds and watch them get taken less.

As someone who runs a Fireball [Rhymer/Dengar/4xSpray] the thing I fear most is numbers. The greatest advantage I have gotten out of the 'ball is freedom of location, which lets me use the objectives to my benefit. I don't worry about losing them to damage, or losing Rhymer, or Dengar even, since they will probably trade enough damage to earn those points back against the aggressors. I worry about a chain of cheap fighters locking them in place long enough to make that tradeoff not worth it.

So far I have lucked out and only faced 4-6 fighters against it. At that, Dengar is immediately the target, then Rhymer. The predictability lets me counter-maneuver your own screen, since I know who your targets will be and I can potentially lag the Firesprays back just enough to Mop up instead of engage First. If the Fighters came in sufficient waves, that wouldn't be viable.

Deployment will make a large difference in my level of worry as well. I suppose I could try to escort the Ball with the Raiders, which may still let them serve as skirmishers, but then I lose using one as a trailer.

I suppose my favorite benefit of the Fireball is flexibility, and I use Fireball because even without Rhymer 4x Sprays is nothing to sneeze at. I am using him to support someone else that almost doesn't need it. I feel like Rhymer/Dengar is sort of an Imperial Fighter Giftbasket that every Admiral should try to fit on their list if possible.

I agree with this, and partially why the Fireball is so powerful is its flexibility. If your opponent brings a token screen, you can pretty much just ignore the incoming damage. If your opponent brings a medium screen (like 5-6 fighters), you have to worry about it a little, but not enough to change your strategy. Only when your opponent has a equal number in force, do you need to alter your strategy from killing ships to tackling the new threat. In summary, the damage and threat of the Fireball changes from insane, to high, to medium, because even with a dedicated fighting force, Dengar and the boys have enough tools to deal with most decent squadrons. Firesprays are basically autonomous Imperial B-Wings at that point, and with Dengar giving a Counter 1 bubble, they behave like 4-attack dice fighters.

I've tried Tycho + 3 A-Wings, and I think I'm going to up that number to 1+4 for my next go. I'm going to take it slow, as taking any additional fighters will essentially force the entire list and playstyle to change.

Either way, without the generic durability of Tycho, Rebel players will need to look at 6 fighters and above to stay competitive these days.

Then build a list that is a punishment to the Fireball builds and watch them get taken less.

Sure, but building a list that is all-comers, can comfortably take the Fireball on a walk through town, and staying within my playstyle is a little more difficult. I'm sure this is the case for everyone.