Page 53.

Also you are being oversentitive and personal. I can disagree with you, that doesn't mean i am attacking, offending or insulting you. If you feel offended just because i disagree with you and i explain my reasoning, that's your problem, not mine.

Page 53.

"A career is more than just what a character does for a living—it is his way of life, encompassing his goals, his passions, his training, and his destiny. Areas of focus may change over time, and what he does to make ends meet may alter drastically over time, but a character will never truly stop being whatever it is he chose to be at his core."

Also you are being oversentitive and personal. I can disagree with you, that doesn't mean i am attacking, offending or insulting you. If you feel offended just because i disagree with you and i explain my reasoning, that's your problem, not mine.

So by this statement you and the book are saying that

Luke Skywalker's calling is not being a Jedi because he did not start as one?

or that I will always be a Saleman because that what I am.

As I said earlier in this post I know that this was a Game chose made to keep down power gaming.

Now to the disagreement part, one it was not directed at you.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

Again, i am not saying just "nope", i am just explaining my own interpretation of the RAI (because the text i quoted are not rules, but interpretations of what the rules mean). As i said earlier, career does not equal a job. Luke didn't choose to be a farmer, he didn't want to be a farmer, and he wasn't a farmer, even tho he worked as one. His destiny and passions were to be like his father, first a pilot and the little he knew about him, then a jedi. He is still proficient at running a farm, but at his core, his career is not a farmer.

So all other augment aside this brings up why I asked in the first place.

My friend and I are playing in a current game set in the Empire Era

my friend wants to play a Jedi.

the GM has ruled that since he does not have a master he could not start with a Jedi Career.

which we can't say hes wrong because its my friends call (how could he justify have force powers without training).

so that been said by the RAW his calling could never be Jedi.

Now i understand the chose made here by FFG, its a game balance thing, and there's no deeper meaning to it like poster here want to give it. Its not about Callings or what a PC is at heart its about keeping the Power-Gaming down.

Careers exist in EotE because Careers existed in WFRP. In that game, what EotE calls Specializations were Careers and what EotE calls Careers where Classes. So EotE is a class-based game.

The purpose of the classes is to divide the duties of the party among the various PC. So you've got a pilot-dude, a shooter-dude, a mechanic-dude, etc. Each character gets a turn to shine during the adventure.

If you don't want a game where each PC is a specialists, then you're best bet is to just ditch the whole class structure and let everyone free pick while dropping the XP awards by 25% or so.

But, since the OP is talking about how his GM is running the game, he's out of luck.

so that been said by the RAW his calling could never be Jedi.

I think you're putting too much emphasis on labels, which is not a very "Jedi" thing to do

So all other augment aside this brings up why I asked in the first place.

My friend and I are playing in a current game set in the Empire Era

my friend wants to play a Jedi.

the GM has ruled that since he does not have a master he could not start with a Jedi Career.

which we can't say hes wrong because its my friends call (how could he justify have force powers without training).

so that been said by the RAW his calling could never be Jedi.

Whom ? Your friend ? Well not a jedi, but that doesn't mean if he is force sensitive that he cannot develop his powers further. But well, that's something you need to discuss with your GM.

This is like the worst thread ever.

The penalty you speak of is a one time cost of 10 XP per specialization. I've seen very few characters go past 3 specializations.

So this whole thread is because you are complaining about spending 30 extra XP over the course of your character's life?

(Side note, its true you can only get Signature Abilities from your career. Probably the only valid reason for wishing you had a different career)

So all other augment aside this brings up why I asked in the first place.

My friend and I are playing in a current game set in the Empire Era

my friend wants to play a Jedi.

the GM has ruled that since he does not have a master he could not start with a Jedi Career.

which we can't say hes wrong because its my friends call (how could he justify have force powers without training).

so that been said by the RAW his calling could never be Jedi.

Jedi is nothing more than a title. I think your friend's issue lies more in the fact that the GM isn't letting him start with a Force career. Thus disallowing him access to upcoming signature abilities. That is the only thing he is missing out on because he can still take his current career's sig abilities. This is on the GM. Maybe he equates Force careers and specs to being Jedi but he would be wrong. I think you need to have discussion with the GM.

Your Career is in "Technical Services". You have a specialization in Customer Service, and you're now paying the XP to switch over and focus on Computer IT as a new specialization. Your Career however is still Technical Services. Just one way to look at it.

While you might disagree, Customer Service and Computer IT are likely specializations. Do not mistake a real world equivalent career, for a Star Wars Career. They have very different meanings. I won't debate whether you are changing your Career (big C) in my little scenario. I'm merely pointing out that Customer Service and Computer IT would be specializations (or more likely, simply jobs), and aren't really relevant to the current debate.

My Customer Service is in Sales and Management Not tech so this argument falls apart.

but the overall theme is FFG is God I'm wrong got it.

Your arguing semantics here. I'm not trying to attack you, I'm merely trying to illustrate another viewpoint: That a change from Customer Service to Computer IT "could" be viewed as a new specialization, and not a Career change. The FFG's use of Career is very different from our real-world careers. Honestly, they probably should have used a less confusing term for Career, maybe "Calling" or even the oldie "Class"!

Having said that, I am not opposed to characters being able to change their Career under special circumstances. I stated on the first page of this post that I'd likely allow such changes. However, there is no RAW that outlines or even acknowledges such a change. This is something you need to discuss with your GM. Your GM is the ultimate arbiter for your game. If you really want to make allowances for a Career change, he's the one you're going to convince and work with.

So you don't have to go looking for my first post, here it is:

Was Luke a Colonist? Seems to me, he was pretty young in Episode 4, young enough that he probably hadn't decided a Career yet. When given the chance, he chose to become a Jedi career while traveling with Obi-Won. Up until that point, he hadn't done anything noteworthy enough to have a career.

Career's influence your outlook on life in general. If something really dramatic happened and completely changed a PCs outlook on the universe, I would rule that it "might" be possible for a Career to change. It would be a one time change and would likely require a sizable XP investment to make the change. However, that's how I'd handle it as a GM. You'd have to discuss it with your GM to determine his opinion.

Page 53.

"A career is more than just what a character does for a living—it is his way of life, encompassing his goals, his passions, his training, and his destiny. Areas of focus may change over time, and what he does to make ends meet may alter drastically over time, but a character will never truly stop being whatever it is he chose to be at his core."

Also you are being oversentitive and personal. I can disagree with you, that doesn't mean i am attacking, offending or insulting you. If you feel offended just because i disagree with you and i explain my reasoning, that's your problem, not mine.

So by this statement you and the book are saying that

Luke Skywalker's calling is not being a Jedi because he did not start as one?

or that I will always be a Saleman because that what I am.

As I said earlier in this post I know that this was a Game chose made to keep down power gaming.

Now to the disagreement part, one it was not directed at you.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

Luke's calling is a Jedi. But what that means is completely different based on A. the GM and B. what game system is the starting point. You can build Luke 3 different ways and all 3 ways still end with him being a Jedi. Unless we are equating with being a Jedi with having access to signature abilities (the only thing the player wouldn't get) then it doesn't really matter how Luke gets there so long as he gets there. There is an EotE, AoR, and F&D build for Luke that all make him a Jedi. Jedi is a concept, not a core mechanic. Even if you use the F&D careers you're not playing a Jedi. None of the F&D careers make you a Jedi inherently. Unlike other games, there is no such thing as a Jedi class here. There isn't a Jedi career. Being a Jedi is a social thing, an aspect of the rp. If I had two PC's with the Guardian career, one of them could take Warden and the other take Armor and neither of them actually ever be Jedi. As a matter of fact they could be Kilian Rangers and Jennsaari. Nothing about the F&D makes a character a Jedi. Luke could be a Jedi with out take a single career or specialization from F&D.

In other words, this game doesn't define Jedi as a class or as something you take. It is instead conceptualized as something you become. Your friend can easily become a Jedi with out the F&D classes. The only thing he wouldn't get is the signature abilities to those classes. But those aren't the things that makes one a Jedi anyway.

Also, and this is to be stressed as it is highly important. we don't disagree with you because you disagree with RAW. None of us actually care if you disagree with RAW. We don't agree with you because we don't agree with making rules changes because of a GM house rule. This isn't a RAW problem. This is a GM problem. You're trying to tell us that it's a RAW problem and all we keep saying is "no this is a GM issue." We fundamentally do not agree with you on the source of the problem, and it has nothing to do with the RAW and everything to do with most of us seeing the GM as the point at which the issue starts. You're trying to convince us that we should support a change to the RAW because of a random GM. Most of us aren't going to buy that.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

The longer you're here, the more you'll see this. And not just the RAW, even just points of speculation if there's any sort of a clear majority on the issue.

This place is absolutely toxic with the whole "if you don't agree with the hive mind, not only are you wrong, but you're not allowed to have that opinion and continue to discuss...you need to be repeatedly berated until you shut up or say what we want you to say".

I guess it's to be expected that a site devoted to a nerdy niche of a nerdy niche would be full of socially maladjusted narcissists, though.

tenchi2a, how about suggesting a house rule to your GM. Very simply, no matter what career you have, you can pick a different career for the signature abilities. Pick one; choose wisely.

That way, you still hold true to the core training and upbringing you had (your career), but getting the signature abilities from a different career indicates how your values and goals have changed (the "new" career) over the growth of your character (or your friend's character, rather).

One could start with the Explorer career but have the Force-sensitive signature abilities of the Warrior. This is someone who grew up as one thing, but in the end, became something very different.

Page 53.

"A career is more than just what a character does for a living—it is his way of life, encompassing his goals, his passions, his training, and his destiny. Areas of focus may change over time, and what he does to make ends meet may alter drastically over time, but a character will never truly stop being whatever it is he chose to be at his core."

Also you are being oversentitive and personal. I can disagree with you, that doesn't mean i am attacking, offending or insulting you. If you feel offended just because i disagree with you and i explain my reasoning, that's your problem, not mine.

So by this statement you and the book are saying that

Luke Skywalker's calling is not being a Jedi because he did not start as one?

or that I will always be a Saleman because that what I am.

As I said earlier in this post I know that this was a Game chose made to keep down power gaming.

Now to the disagreement part, one it was not directed at you.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

Why do you assume Luke started as fringer? You can build Luke in many many ways. And none of them will be right or wrong. Because you are trying to slap a game mechanic on a movie character. But then the same can be said for any character concept. They can be built a number of ways.

tenchi2a, how about suggesting a house rule to your GM. Very simply, no matter what career you have, you can pick a different career for the signature abilities. Pick one; choose wisely.

That way, you still hold true to the core training and upbringing you had (your career), but getting the signature abilities from a different career indicates how your values and goals have changed (the "new" career) over the growth of your character (or your friend's character, rather).

One could start with the Explorer career but have the Force-sensitive signature abilities of the Warrior. This is someone who grew up as one thing, but in the end, became something very different.

That is actually quite a nice houserule!

But in sake for gamebalance let me tell you this insane combo. The colonists signature ability of unmatched expertise maxed coupled with the pilot spec and hotshot and you have an insane pilot performer. Unmatched expertise reduces up to 2 difficulty of any career skill check during one encounter. Through Pilot spec, gunnery and piloting (space) become career skills. Now do the math if you have high skill, high talents and high agility, you have a Pilot not by career that puts pretty much anyone to shame.

It's not which signature ability you get through your career, it's how you use it.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

Is there a way to switch careers during the game so as not to pay the increased cost

like Luke going for being a colonist to a jedi what ever ?

Actually That isn't what you did.

You asked two question in the beginning. Then, when people gave you the answer and explanation, you began to argue semantics with everyone.

You Are not satisfied with the way the game works in that area because you Want what you can't have at the beginning of character creations (As in you start as a EotE character and later become a force user, you don't want to have to pay for what you wanted to be to begin with but were not allowed, O so it seems by your arguments)

What you want is Not going to be given you by Any discussion on Any Forum. It doesn't Matter what we say, you have to work it out with your GM. And I will not be party to your attempts to try and Strong ARM your GM by trying to be able to point to a bunch of Answers on a Forum that suggest the GM should do it differently.

I suspect your GM has already told you no. Now your upset, Not because everyone is saying FFG is GOD and you are Wrong. But because we haven't given you the "leverage" you felt you needed to push your Gm into giving you what you want.

Please don't start Name calling and throwing a Tantrum because others disagree.

I don't happen to agree with everything ANY of my favorite systems Write.

I either run it, as a GM, RAW, or I modify my games to suit my Needs. But when I sit down as a Player at another GMs table, I accept what the GM rules. I do not blame the game designers. If I want a Change, I discuss it with the GM. If the GM doesn't agree, I have the choice of not playing or accepting it. Usually I accept it.

That is the choice you are left with. Please stop being inflamatory because others don't give you what you want.

I have no problem with people not agreeing with me, but the pattern on this forum seems to be if you don't agree with the RAW then you are wrong and people with go out of there way to prove FFG right.

I asked the question because I dont agree with FFG on this point but trying to prove why there right seems to be all people here want to do.

Is there a way to switch careers during the game so as not to pay the increased cost

like Luke going for being a colonist to a jedi what ever ?

Actually That isn't what you did.

You asked two question in the beginning. Then, when people gave you the answer and explanation, you began to argue semantics with everyone.

You Are not satisfied with the way the game works in that area because you Want what you can't have at the beginning of character creations (As in you start as a EotE character and later become a force user, you don't want to have to pay for what you wanted to be to begin with but were not allowed, O so it seems by your arguments)

What you want is Not going to be given you by Any discussion on Any Forum. It doesn't Matter what we say, you have to work it out with your GM. And I will not be party to your attempts to try and Strong ARM your GM by trying to be able to point to a bunch of Answers on a Forum that suggest the GM should do it differently.

I suspect your GM has already told you no. Now your upset, Not because everyone is saying FFG is GOD and you are Wrong. But because we haven't given you the "leverage" you felt you needed to push your Gm into giving you what you want.

Please don't start Name calling and throwing a Tantrum because others disagree.

I don't happen to agree with everything ANY of my favorite systems Write.

I either run it, as a GM, RAW, or I modify my games to suit my Needs. But when I sit down as a Player at another GMs table, I accept what the GM rules. I do not blame the game designers. If I want a Change, I discuss it with the GM. If the GM doesn't agree, I have the choice of not playing or accepting it. Usually I accept it.

That is the choice you are left with. Please stop being inflamatory because others don't give you what you want.

I want to add, that dual-classing in other systems is much, much worse than here. Some systems make you crazy overpowered when you do it (CODA) others are just even more restrictive.

This game does it perfectly in my opinion: you can take any spec from any other career and you get the attached career skills, which are now cheaper to buy with XP and the cool talents. Sure you pay 10 XP more for them but that works for me.

The way I see it it depicts wonderfully what your characters life has been like:

Childhood: The basic teachings from your respective species - Species skills etc.

Teenagedom to early adulthood: You started thinking about your career and acquiring skills for that - your career skills from the actual career

Adulthood: you decided upon a role in your chosen career and specialized in it - your starting specialization.

You can't unlearn the skills you got from your career. Thus choose wisely which career you take, that is all.

You wanna be an ace pilot but not a smuggler? Take fringer instead and take other piloting specs later!

If you want to play a character who's force sensitive but doesn't know it yet, ask your GM if you can take the specific career from Force and Destiny (sans lightsaber style of course) and use that without buying starting force powers. The Force talents represent him using the force subconsciously.

There is a way for everything, you just need to look for it in the existing rules and not make up your own always.

Oh I agree with you there tenchi2a!

It is actually represented in the rules already. With a mentor you get a discount on learning force powers. Without one you pay full price.

well after seeing Ray in the star wars force awakens, it will be hard to argue that having a force career without a teacher is not possible.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that.

well after seeing Ray in the star wars force awakens, it will be hard to argue that having a force career without a teacher is not possible.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that.

My gm did lol

well after seeing Ray in the star wars force awakens, it will be hard to argue that having a force career without a teacher is not possible.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that.

My gm did lol

Really? He deserves to be punished then!

You must all roll Gungans next game! They are in the Nexus of Power source book.

well after seeing Ray in the star wars force awakens, it will be hard to argue that having a force career without a teacher is not possible.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that.

My gm did lol

Really? He deserves to be punished then!

You must all roll Gungans next game! They are in the Nexus of Power source book.

wait who are you trying to punish him or us lol

Both

well after seeing Ray in the star wars force awakens, it will be hard to argue that having a force career without a teacher is not possible.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that.

My gm did lol

Hence why your issue is with the GM and not the game.