I do want to try out the Crackshot Swarm, but I really didn't want to get 4 Khiraxz and 2 Hound's Tooth. Now, I don't.

don't expect to ever see an academy pilot again, except as a last ditch filler ala Heaver's Z-95

I'm curious about a Crackshot/Academy mix to keep 7 TIEs. You can do Howlrunner and 3 Black Squad all with Crackshot plus 3 Academy pilots up front to get in the way. Has to be careful not to get broken up in the PS gap, but it might have a shot.

Maybe an all-/x7 squad could do some form of new tactics where they zoom in for one round, then completely disengage and set up for another joust without receiving any fire. It's hard to imagine this actually playing out in-game, however. Does anyone have any examples/replays of such a strategy existing?

I'm breaking radio silence on the new Defender expansion for the first time. I'll probably make a separate post later. The MathWing numbers peg the PS1 Delta/x7 as having a jousting efficiency of about 102% for reasonable assumptions of how often you can get the free evade to trigger. They are more cost efficient than a PS1 TIE Fighter (99%) for their points.

Except Defenders have a white K-turn.

Stock standard unsupported TIE Fighters (no Howlrunner), if they weren't already, should now be completely obsolete. The TIE Defender/x7 is simply better in almost every conceivable way. This also applies to TIE/FO's, although the vanilla versions were never efficient enough to begin with anyway.

The Defender/D is another interesting case. It's less points efficient, and its a glass cannon instead of tank, but it has its uses. I haven't dug into tractor beam specifically yet, but it has potential as the first shot (out of many) vs a mid/high AGI target.

Vessery/x7 is an absolute monster. His absolute jousting efficiency (ignoring his pilot skill) if he gets a free target lock 50% of the time is now around 97% - 98%. Pre-x7 he was only about 74.5%. For comparison purpose, Backstabber was generally regarded as the most cost efficient PS6 pilot in the game (albeit a glass cannon that dies instantly), and he is only 88.8% efficient with his ability triggering 50% of the time. Vessery wins out having a white K-turn, better cost efficiency, an EPT, and lasting longer than half a joust.

The PS6 at 34 points clocks in at 89.4% efficient, which is already a hair better than Backstabber. Except these PS6's, like Vessery, don't die like bugs on a windshield, and they have an EPT (presumably), and they have a white K-turn. I'm assuming the Glaives have an EPT since the red Royal Guards do, and FFG knows better than to make a PS6 generic without an EPT at this point. 34 points is then the only value that makes sense.

Naturally I needed to get some test games in to gather some analytical data, so I have been flying:

100 points

Vessery (35) + x7 (-2) + Crackshot (1)

Glaive (34) + x7 (-2) + Crackshot (1)

Glaive (34) + x7 (-2) + Crackshot (1)

I have only played 3 games so far, but the empirical game data backs up the mathematical assumptions that I have been using. It's not hard to nearly continuously dial in 3+ speed maneuvers and keep arcs on targets. Occasionally you will have to shift targets. They are relatively immune to stress. Having 6 stress and K-turning anyway, and getting an evade token on top of it is just complete shenanigans when you are already more efficient than a TIE Fighter.

MJ: Are you suggesting this is the first real example of power creep in the game?

I wouldn't disbelieve it, given I flew one two nights ago and managed almost 100% Speed 3 moves doing so... but I'm curious whether this suggests a full-blown mistake.

Although this is not based on a mathematical model, I have genuine concern that both new Defender titles might be borderline overpowered.

Although this is not based on a mathematical model, I have genuine concern that both new Defender titles might be borderline overpowered.

Muwhahahahahahahahaha!!! Yes the time has come.

I'm breaking radio silence on the new Defender expansion for the first time. I'll probably make a separate post later. The MathWing numbers peg the PS1 Delta/x7 as having a jousting efficiency of about 102% for reasonable assumptions of how often you can get the free evade to trigger. They are more cost efficient than a PS1 TIE Fighter (99%) for their points.

...

I have only played 3 games so far, but the empirical game data backs up the mathematical assumptions that I have been using. It's not hard to nearly continuously dial in 3+ speed maneuvers and keep arcs on targets. Occasionally you will have to shift targets. They are relatively immune to stress. Having 6 stress and K-turning anyway, and getting an evade token on top of it is just complete shenanigans when you are already more efficient than a TIE Fighter.

That's exciting to hear, and better than I expected. The x7 is clearly tough for its cost, but I was concerned that its offense would be subpar in practice.

Now that I think about it, I might compare them to budget Aggressors, where you can fit three in a list instead of two. Offense isn't the strongest, but when you put it on very maneuverable, durable ships, you get an effective list.

I wonder if they undervalued the free Evade token?

I mean, the problem was always 2-4 points; I was expecting something worth a 2-3 point value.

Or perhaps that boils down to working out how to fly against it. Hmm.

I'd be less worried... but they undercooked the TLT by about a point, too.

So I ran 3x deltas tonight with the x7 title and back stabber, and preliminary results seems very promising. 18 hull protected by 3 green dice and a focus+ evade is brutal to slog through. Obviously this list needs more testing, but I think it might be tournament worthy.

Oh, and the tie/d title is nasty on vessery when combined with ion cannon.

MJ: Are you suggesting this is the first real example of power creep in the game?

I wouldn't disbelieve it, given I flew one two nights ago and managed almost 100% Speed 3 moves doing so... but I'm curious whether this suggests a full-blown mistake.

Not to answer for MJ but I think that if you look at recent competitive results, we're seeing power creep within the game already, at least more than previously. It's not a "ship" power creep as much as it is an "upgrade card" power creep with the advent of TLTs, Crack Shot, and Emperor.

I just thought how to manage vess into a palpamobile list and what about this one:

Vessery 35

Ion Cannon 3

VI 1

Tie Mk II 1

Ship total: 40

The Inquisitor 25

VI 1

Tie v1 1

AT 2

Ship total: 29

OGP 21

Palpatine 8

Ion Projector 2

Ship total: 31

Total 100

or leave ion projector out for juke on the Inquisitor and a 1 point initiative bid

Ive been looking at almost this exact same list hwever I dropped the ion projector on the Palpmobile to bump Vessery up to Brath, Getting 2 PS10 Aces + Palpmobile seems too good not to try out even if you might be losing the potential synergy of the palp shuttle having a lock for Vess to feed off.

How about this list?

Vessery - Tie/D, Ion Cannon, Outmaneuver = 41

Vader - Tie/X1, ATC = 30

Omicron - Palpatine = 29

The idea is that the Shuttle would be the focus in alot of matches and Vessery with Outmaneuver would make them pay twice each round. Vader helps Vess with the target locks and damage. If Vessery is the primary target then Palpatine can provide a defensive boost to him.

I think you lose a significant amount of power when you make Vader the small ace so to speak. In my personal experience you want him at 36/37 depending on ept with the other ace eating 35/34. Fortunately Vessery with x7 and a 1 point of whatever you want is 34 points of sexy.

Stock standard unsupported TIE Fighters (no Howlrunner), if they weren't already, should now be completely obsolete. The TIE Defender/x7 is simply better in almost every conceivable way. This also applies to TIE/FO's, although the vanilla versions were never efficient enough to begin with anyway.

Are you talking about Delta vs Academy specifically or TIE Fighter vs TIE Defender generally?

I'm not a hugely competitive player, but I haven't seen Academy pilots used in any regularity for quite a while. No so long ago, you had some Obsidian swarms, and more recently Blackshot which may or may not be supported by Howlrunner, but it terms of raw efficiency squads, not for a while.

That said, I think there's still a place for TIEs as cheap blockers in some lists. But if what you say is true, I'm going to miss the little buggers.

Although this is not based on a mathematical model, I have genuine concern that both new Defender titles might be borderline overpowered.

not overpowered, just super

nah the Tie Fighter (Standard; unsupported) was obsolete for a while (Wave 5 onward) unless you were some kind of jedi master/sith lord swarm player

they've been replaced by the new standard: Crackshot Blacksquadron

they're great against TLTs and can actually hit through more than 1 agility

don't expect to ever see an academy pilot again, except as a last ditch filler ala Heaver's Z-95

Against Dash you can take 8 TIE Fighters, spread them out in a line across all of your starting area, and use them as one huge net to catch Dash in.

IG's are also super weak to being blocked by a huge wad of TIEs in front of them.

8x Z-95 also gets bids to PS 4 and also has PS 2 simultaneous fire at least.

So I wouldn't count out 8 Z's or 8 TIEs, that's still decent. Howlrunner neat formation flying is dead though. She dies ASAP, providing less benefit a lot of times than an Omega FO with Crackshot. You can't formation fly against aces or when your opponent picks the 3 largest possible asteroids or has a fat boosting turret, or against Miranda. And yet she encourages you to fly in formation, which is "Falling with style" pretty much. You want your TIEs flown in a loose flexible blob, not a cool looking predictable Napoleonic line.

MJ: Are you suggesting this is the first real example of power creep in the game?

I wouldn't disbelieve it, given I flew one two nights ago and managed almost 100% Speed 3 moves doing so... but I'm curious whether this suggests a full-blown mistake.

There have already been several examples of power creep to varying levels. The most influential ones being:

• pre-nerf phantom
• TLT at 6 points instead of 7
• Emperor Palpatine

These all directly and significantly affect the meta. Other cards like Crackshot are also extremely strong but are not nearly as meta defining. The TIE Defender/x7 title will probably fall more in the latter camp. I don't think you will see 28% of points spent be on TIE Defenders now like you saw with Y-wings at Worlds. But the x7 is certainly stronger than it should be.

That's exciting to hear, and better than I expected. The x7 is clearly tough for its cost, but I was concerned that its offense would be subpar in practice.

Now that I think about it, I might compare them to budget Aggressors, where you can fit three in a list instead of two. Offense isn't the strongest, but when you put it on very maneuverable, durable ships, you get an effective list.

Their offense is essentially unchanged with x7, although occasionally you end up keeping the focus token for offense, only needing to use a single evade on defense. They are more tanky than attack heavy, which in my opinion pairs extremely well with the white 4K as it can give you an extra turn to survive in-close allowing you to then get behind the opponent safely. You can trade taking some damage on yourself for position without getting obliterated.

Stock standard unsupported TIE Fighters (no Howlrunner), if they weren't already, should now be completely obsolete. The TIE Defender/x7 is simply better in almost every conceivable way. This also applies to TIE/FO's, although the vanilla versions were never efficient enough to begin with anyway.

Are you talking about Delta vs Academy specifically or TIE Fighter vs TIE Defender generally?

Any of the generic ships, typically. The TIE Fighters need to serve a very specific purpose now to be worth taking at all:

• Howlrunner Swarm (even that might be debatable)
• extra 12-13 points leftover so its pure filler
• EPT Crackshot on a Black Squadron Pilot
• spam blocking (Jean-Christophe comes to mind - incidentally he played a Crackshot swarm at Worlds making 27th)

If you have a bunch of points to spend on filler stuff, and you don't want to get a high PS Ace, then I think the x7 Defender will be the first choice to look at. The x7 is significantly more of a buff than Accuracy Corrector was for the generic TIE Advanced.

MJ: Are you suggesting this is the first real example of power creep in the game?

I wouldn't disbelieve it, given I flew one two nights ago and managed almost 100% Speed 3 moves doing so... but I'm curious whether this suggests a full-blown mistake.

There have already been several examples of power creep to varying levels. The most influential ones being:

• pre-nerf phantom
• TLT at 6 points instead of 7
• Emperor Palpatine

These all directly and significantly affect the meta. Other cards like Crackshot are also extremely strong but are not nearly as meta defining. The TIE Defender/x7 title will probably fall more in the latter camp. I don't think you will see 28% of points spent be on TIE Defenders now like you saw with Y-wings at Worlds. But the x7 is certainly stronger than it should be.

That's exciting to hear, and better than I expected. The x7 is clearly tough for its cost, but I was concerned that its offense would be subpar in practice.

Now that I think about it, I might compare them to budget Aggressors, where you can fit three in a list instead of two. Offense isn't the strongest, but when you put it on very maneuverable, durable ships, you get an effective list.

Their offense is essentially unchanged with x7, although occasionally you end up keeping the focus token for offense, only needing to use a single evade on defense. They are more tanky than attack heavy, which in my opinion pairs extremely well with the white 4K as it can give you an extra turn to survive in-close allowing you to then get behind the opponent safely. You can trade taking some damage on yourself for position without getting obliterated.

Stock standard unsupported TIE Fighters (no Howlrunner), if they weren't already, should now be completely obsolete. The TIE Defender/x7 is simply better in almost every conceivable way. This also applies to TIE/FO's, although the vanilla versions were never efficient enough to begin with anyway.

Are you talking about Delta vs Academy specifically or TIE Fighter vs TIE Defender generally?

Any of the generic ships, typically. The TIE Fighters need to serve a very specific purpose now to be worth taking at all:

• Howlrunner Swarm (even that might be debatable)
• extra 12-13 points leftover so its pure filler
• EPT Crackshot on a Black Squadron Pilot
• spam blocking (Jean-Christophe comes to mind - incidentally he played a Crackshot swarm at Worlds making 27th)

If you have a bunch of points to spend on filler stuff, and you don't want to get a high PS Ace, then I think the x7 Defender will be the first choice to look at. The x7 is significantly more of a buff than Accuracy Corrector was for the generic TIE Advanced.

What's your thoughts on defenders with title + ion cannon?

_{Going back to list building...}

_{Whisper - ACD - FCS - VI (Maybe intel agent)}

_{Onyx squadron with X7 title X 2.}

_{I know I could take two delta's but I like the higher pilot skill that Onyx pilots provide. The pilot skill of one from delta's have never been good for me. They would get blocked when K turning a lot. This is probably due to my bad flying on my part but sometimes you have to build your list around you and not what works for other people.}

I'm likely to say, forget the title. Mangler Cannon + Predator/Lone Wolf. Go Y-wing hunting.

If that worked that way, there would be tons of Tie-D already

because Y-s are here in droves

If you have a bunch of points to spend on filler stuff, and you don't want to get a high PS Ace, then I think the x7 Defender will be the first choice to look at. The x7 is significantly more of a buff than Accuracy Corrector was for the generic TIE Advanced.

My new list of pre-made generic filler ship easy to include in a team:

-between 12-18 points: a Tie Fighter

-between 15-21points: a Tie FO

-between 21-25 points: a Tie Advanced

-between 25-30 points: a Tie Interceptor (or 2 Tie Fighter)

-28+pts: Tie Defender

Can't wait for the Tie Adv Prototype preview (probably today) to see where he sits. But the Empire roster is very good, there is no gap where I can't find a good ship to take.

If you have a bunch of points to spend on filler stuff, and you don't want to get a high PS Ace, then I think the x7 Defender will be the first choice to look at. The x7 is significantly more of a buff than Accuracy Corrector was for the generic TIE Advanced.

My new list of pre-made generic filler ship easy to include in a team:

-between 12-18 points: a Tie Fighter

-between 15-21points: a Tie FO

-between 21-25 points: a Tie Advanced

-between 25-30 points: a Tie Interceptor (or 2 Tie Fighter)

-28+pts: Tie Defender

Can't wait for the Tie Adv Prototype preview (probably today) to see where he sits. But the Empire roster is very good, there is no gap where I can't find a good ship to take.

+1, apart that I don't mix the FO in.

My Special Division:

18: Alpha

20: Alpha + AT

21: Alpha + Stealth

I'm likely to say, forget the title. Mangler Cannon + Predator/Lone Wolf. Go Y-wing hunting.

If that worked that way, there would be tons of Tie-D already

because Y-s are here in droves

Has anyone tried Rex w/Predator and HLC or Vessery in your area? They will rip through Ys.

And everything else.

MJ: Are you suggesting this is the first real example of power creep in the game?

I wouldn't disbelieve it, given I flew one two nights ago and managed almost 100% Speed 3 moves doing so... but I'm curious whether this suggests a full-blown mistake.

There have already been several examples of power creep to varying levels. The most influential ones being:

• pre-nerf phantom
• TLT at 6 points instead of 7
• Emperor Palpatine

These all directly and significantly affect the meta. Other cards like Crackshot are also extremely strong but are not nearly as meta defining. The TIE Defender/x7 title will probably fall more in the latter camp. I don't think you will see 28% of points spent be on TIE Defenders now like you saw with Y-wings at Worlds. But the x7 is certainly stronger than it should be.

That's exciting to hear, and better than I expected. The x7 is clearly tough for its cost, but I was concerned that its offense would be subpar in practice.

Now that I think about it, I might compare them to budget Aggressors, where you can fit three in a list instead of two. Offense isn't the strongest, but when you put it on very maneuverable, durable ships, you get an effective list.

Their offense is essentially unchanged with x7, although occasionally you end up keeping the focus token for offense, only needing to use a single evade on defense. They are more tanky than attack heavy, which in my opinion pairs extremely well with the white 4K as it can give you an extra turn to survive in-close allowing you to then get behind the opponent safely. You can trade taking some damage on yourself for position without getting obliterated.

Stock standard unsupported TIE Fighters (no Howlrunner), if they weren't already, should now be completely obsolete. The TIE Defender/x7 is simply better in almost every conceivable way. This also applies to TIE/FO's, although the vanilla versions were never efficient enough to begin with anyway.

Are you talking about Delta vs Academy specifically or TIE Fighter vs TIE Defender generally?

Any of the generic ships, typically. The TIE Fighters need to serve a very specific purpose now to be worth taking at all:

• Howlrunner Swarm (even that might be debatable)
• extra 12-13 points leftover so its pure filler
• EPT Crackshot on a Black Squadron Pilot
• spam blocking (Jean-Christophe comes to mind - incidentally he played a Crackshot swarm at Worlds making 27th)

If you have a bunch of points to spend on filler stuff, and you don't want to get a high PS Ace, then I think the x7 Defender will be the first choice to look at. The x7 is significantly more of a buff than Accuracy Corrector was for the generic TIE Advanced.

I guess it took them seven waves to hit that point... but I guess they've hit that point. Ah well.

More fixes for already fixed ships later, though, right? ... Right?