So. We've been going nuts about discussing this one way or another.

However, I want to throw some things into the discussion that I don't see mentioned often enough.

Item the First: This modification can only be used on ships with both Missile and Torpedo slots.

In other words, Bombers, Punishers, K-Wings, and the Slave-1. Only.

Of these, only Bombers are cheap enough to be used for an actual Alpha-Strike list.

The Alpha Strike relies on spending the ordnance in one explosive burst, removing key elements of the enemy fleet before they can be effective, and then basically operating as a Swarm. Being that this typically happens on the first round of combat, it was named for the first letter of the Greek alphabet.

Item the Second: Target Lock is the best possible action to use outside of combat.

If you're modifying your attacks with your actions, the extra defense from Focus is generally worth more than the carry-over between rounds.

Bombers and Punishers both come with actions that let them acquire shots they might otherwise have held out of arc, or actions that let them dodge, which are superior to either.

I have often espoused TL as an action with an incredibly narrow space of use... and this upgrade blows that wide open, giving you an action that is useful when no other action is viable.

Ultimately, I fully expect a Bomber, Punisher, K-Wing, or Firespray with this equipped to out-joust a mirror-match without.

Question then becomes whether its better than Tie mk.II, Autothrusters, Advanced SLAM, or Engine Upgrades, respectively.

Late revelation: LRS is sliiiiightly better on low PS ships. That is to say, when you lose your TL on one ship, a low PS ship is likelier to be able to get the Target Lock on the round that TL is spent in combat.

It's a very minor window wherein that matters, though if I'm right and Expert Handling comes into the metagame, it could definitely come up

Tie mk2 - situational at best, imo; not really in competition with scanners. Tie Shuttle + fleet officer, which can probably abuse this mod the most, won't have the slots to use scanners

Autothrusters - on the punisher, it's not super amazing but it will save redline's life. then again, you're not running scanners on redline (anti-synergy with FCS clusters). Deathrain takes bombs and performs shenanigans; has no need for either mod

A-SLAM - very specific utility revolving around dropping mines into people's faces. No mines? No need. Long range scanners set up the target-lock more effectively for less investment. Expect to see scanners on Miranda whether or not she brings Homing Missiles

EU - no large bases here, apart from the Firespray. Firespray takes EU.

imo the only legitimate competition for this mod slot is the unspoiled Guidance Chips/Chimps. If it deals with modifying ordnance, it could be far and away the superior upgrade for everything that isn't homing missiles. Then again, it could also cost points

To me, this screams either bomber with a light munition load, because once it gets in range it's either too damaged to use more, chased away as a threat or stuck in at R1/2. OR the ultimate Vessery spotter.

I think a bomber with a thread tracer, leading other bombers without the LRS would be nice.

On the Bomber, the TIE mk.II is at its second-most potent, in that it Greenwashes 2 sets of banks.

The Bomber also has some non-Koiogran red on the dial, so Greens are more important than usual.

Moreover, the two banks that the TIE mk.II gives are both more powerful than the 2 speed that is natively green: the 1 slow-plays and lets you BR into an overlap with your original position, while the 3 takes the long-game. The 2 is left with a very small band of utility; the same narrow band it would have if you were unstressed.

However.

The red 2-Turn on the Bomber is ingrained in many peoples' minds as non-viable and extremely situational, moreso than even the Koiogran, as the 3-turn still allows for a similar angle-shift.

Therefore, without facing another layer of stressor (such as Push the Limit, or an enemy Tactician), I'll say LRS is better than TIE mk.II on the Bomber.

To me, this screams either bomber with a light munition load, because once it gets in range it's either too damaged to use more, chased away as a threat or stuck in at R1/2. OR the ultimate Vessery spotter.

I think a bomber with a thread tracer, leading other bombers without the LRS would be nice.

I don't think it really works that well with tracers, either. Those only need focus tokens to fire, and LRS paired with S-Thread Tracers may restrict the ship who fired the tracer from being able to pick up a target lock on the target at range 1-2.

I'd go one or the other, but not both.

heychadwick's TIE Bomber build just potentially got a nice buff.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Homing Missiles, Seismic Charges, Extra Munitions, Long Rage Scanners x 4

Target lock turn one. Fully modded attacks. No escape.

To me, this screams either bomber with a light munition load, because once it gets in range it's either too damaged to use more, chased away as a threat or stuck in at R1/2. OR the ultimate Vessery spotter.

I think a bomber with a thread tracer, leading other bombers without the LRS would be nice.

I don't think it really works that well with tracers, either. Those only need focus tokens to fire, and LRS paired with S-Thread Tracers may restrict the ship who fired the tracer from being able to pick up a target lock on the target at range 1-2.

I'd go one or the other, but not both.

The TL is really for making sure the tracer hits though, after which the other bombers in the group now have it. Jonus in this list is redundant, this said, bombers need to have their seizmic charges and mines.

heychadwick's TIE Bomber build just potentially got a nice buff.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot - Homing Missiles, Seismic Charges, Extra Munitions, Long Rage Scanners x 4

Target lock turn one. Fully modded attacks. No escape.

idk

personally, I've found it to be a semi-jouster and decent blocker at that low PS, meaning it really can't engineer many situations in which you can break away from engagements safety while having your action option for a TL. Plus, with 3-4 of them around, eventually those missiles start hitting home with or without full mods

I've taken many range 1-2 TLs with these guys, and losing that flexibility would hurt them as far as I can tell

then again, you could also mix and match. Put the two long range scanners in the back of the formation and unmodded mooks in the front?

Scanners are something I see for more elite targets that can afford to derp around, such as Miranda or Bren with his more limited number of more potent (crack)shots

If you're not filling the mod slot on any of those ships anyway then it's a no brainer. Free TL to start the game is great even if you never use it. Pairs very well with Vess.

If you don't have the points then it's also a no brainer. Free means it's a free TL every game.

I'm going to use a lone bomber with this to skirt the edge he'll be responsible for activation of vessery, it'll then come in last with focus and joust.

No point at all loading up a bomber that can't fire ordnance because it can't TL past the first turn.

Generic recspec Firespray could use it to get a nice initial alpha strike it's free and your not TLing anyway with that crew.

It's pretty limited in usefulness though.

also and on a related note:

can we please throw wave8 off the boat and stock it up with this expansion to arrive tomorrow yesterday?!

getting more exited about it than I probably should

Tie mk2 - situational at best, imo; not really in competition with scanners. Tie Shuttle + fleet officer, which can probably abuse this mod the most, won't have the slots to use scanners

Autothrusters - on the punisher, it's not super amazing but it will save redline's life. then again, you're not running scanners on redline (anti-synergy with FCS clusters). Deathrain takes bombs and performs shenanigans; has no need for either mod

A-SLAM - very specific utility revolving around dropping mines into people's faces. No mines? No need. Long range scanners set up the target-lock more effectively for less investment. Expect to see scanners on Miranda whether or not she brings Homing Missiles

EU - no large bases here, apart from the Firespray. Firespray takes EU.

Commenting on this is faster, lol.

We agree on the TIE mk.II.

Autothrusters is not as amazing on the Punisher as it is on ships with 3 agility, but it does make their defensive focii much better. However, the Punisher has Boost, meaning that the Punisher has a better chance to completely disengage from combat, and use the LRS again. This'n's close.

Adv. Slam: There's also the crew-based actions like Sabo --- I can't even finish the sentence.

Okay, when you don't have Bombs on board, you're using Adv. Slam to either dodge in-combat, or Target Lock.

One of the problems is that the K-Wing often comes with a TLT, which actually prefers a Range 2-3 TL to the Focus Token. Only of the four ships on which having no modification at all may be better than equipping the LRS, with certain builds.

EU is great on High PS Firesprays, but is far worse on the Bounty Hunter. However, LRS is always good.

So. We've been going nuts about discussing this one way or another.

However, I want to throw some things into the discussion that I don't see mentioned often enough.

Item the First: This modification can only be used on ships with both Missile and Torpedo slots.

In other words, Bombers, Punishers, K-Wings, and the Slave-1. Only.

Of these, only Bombers are cheap enough to be used for an actual Alpha-Strike list.

The Alpha Strike relies on spending the ordnance in one explosive burst, removing key elements of the enemy fleet before they can be effective, and then basically operating as a Swarm. Being that this typically happens on the first round of combat, it was named for the first letter of the Greek alphabet.

Item the Second: Target Lock is the best possible action to use outside of combat.

If you're modifying your attacks with your actions, the extra defense from Focus is generally worth more than the carry-over between rounds.

Bombers and Punishers both come with actions that let them acquire shots they might otherwise have held out of arc, or actions that let them dodge, which are superior to either.

I have often espoused TL as an action with an incredibly narrow space of use... and this upgrade blows that wide open, giving you an action that is useful when no other action is viable.

Ultimately, I fully expect a Bomber, Punisher, K-Wing, or Firespray with this equipped to out-joust a mirror-match without.

Question then becomes whether its better than Tie mk.II, Autothrusters, Advanced SLAM, or Engine Upgrades, respectively.

1.) Since everyone hates on TL saying that it's inferior to focus, this is a straight buff to TL. At range 1-2 when you should supposedly always focus you shouldn't be target locking anyways, right?

2.) I want your endorsement of the R7 Astromech on non-Tarn ships, which also turns TL into a general purpose action.

3.) Straight buff to K-Wings. Danger Zone now enters the engagement with fully modded attacks. Advanced SLAM isn't really useful for much except for a few niche things like mines, activating Leebo/Lando/Jan Ors evading, and target locking.

If you're not filling the mod slot on any of those ships anyway then it's a no brainer. Free TL to start the game is great even if you never use it.

Even if you never spend the free TL, doesn't mean you never use it.

If the entire enemy force targets one ship , I'm going to fly that one ship more cautiously than I would have otherwise.

My enemy has done something that impacts the way I play my fleet.

My enemy has a great advantage.

Item the Second: Target Lock is the best possible action to use outside of combat.

If you're modifying your attacks with your actions, the extra defense from Focus is generally worth more than the carry-over between rounds.

Bombers and Punishers both come with actions that let them acquire shots they might otherwise have held out of arc, or actions that let them dodge, which are superior to either.

I have often espoused TL as an action with an incredibly narrow space of use... and this upgrade blows that wide open, giving you an action that is useful when no other action is viable.

2.) I want your endorsement of the R7 Astromech on non-Tarn ships, which also turns TL into a general purpose action.

Oh, yes. Absolutely.

R7's Target Locks are a better defensive action than Focus vs a single ship, and arguably better than Evade!

When the E-Wing was first spoiled, I made a list called the Retiarian Trident, in which I had 3 Es with FCS and R7. You can google-search for the thread, or the return-of-the-thread I made when the 2 ship meta became prevalent.

The curious thing about R7 is that it scales with the opponents offense, rather than your own defense, so it's nigh impossible to perform Math correctly, and thus it is deemed unpopular.

Still, its absolutely brilliant on, well, everything.

On the advantage of low PS: Quite often a lower PS ship will be outside of range 3 during the action phase when they attempt to lock their higher PS targets. After their target moves it may very well end up at any range inside of three.

On the advantage of low PS: Quite often a lower PS ship will be outside of range 3 during the action phase when they attempt to lock their higher PS targets. After their target moves it may very well end up at any range inside of three.

Yes.

This is a very rare situation when you have this upgrade, as it requires that you did not have a Target Lock on that ship from the round prior.

Either you've killed the ship previously targeted (Brilliant!), or it's used Expert Handling (Mentioned) or Countermeasures (What?).

However, this was a major achillies heel for Alpha-Strike lists in general; your lower PS meant that a ship came into Target-Lock range after your opportunity to activate. This modification seals that weakness solidly, and is superior to Tracers in so doing. (Tracers are still better if your opponent has Expert Handling, or if you're Striking with Headhunters)

I think you can just not worry about EH or Countermeasures especially.

EH is a viable option for Youngster, but Swarms are represented by that one French guy at worlds, me, and a handful of others. In order words, don't plan on facing them unless a regular at the FLGS plays them a lot, they're rare. Giving them super Wingman FO guy was not enough to make them common, EH won't be either. Crackshot has made swarms actually have a chance at winning games against Acewing, but people just don't want to play generics in numbers anymore. There are many more reasons why no one plays swarms despite them being viable (even kind of an autowin vs. Dual IG's if you fly in a spread out blob, they just get blocked and they die) again, but I don't feel like going into it.

Countermeasures, ehhhhhh. Don't see why this couldn't have been a point cheaper with no large ship restriction. I'd put it on plenty of small ships if it was costed more reasonably. Since it's a discard it wouldn't be OP at 2 or even 1 point.

I like the idea of having these on the new generic elites with deadeye, that why your ships can keep firing after the fact if possible

idk

I've taken many range 1-2 TLs with these guys, and losing that flexibility would hurt them as far as I can tell

then again, you could also mix and match. Put the two long range scanners in the back of the formation and unmodded mooks in the front?

Hmmm I must have misread the long range scanner card as I took it as the mod just allowed the equipped ship boost it T/L ability to beyond range 3. I didn't think that ment you can't T/L at closer ranges....

Puts on pedantic hat... Alpha strike definition from first post.

"Being that this typically happens on the first round of combat, it was named for the first letter of the Greek alphabet"

The term comes from the US navy during the Vietnam war and means committing as many aircraft to a strike as is possible. It was "nicked" by gamers to mean a one turn strike with everything. So the first round/first Greek letter naming thing isn't accurate.

I seem to remember reading something about another type of mission with Greek letter designation, but can't remember it off hand. And it would be for another thread anyway.

Countermeasures, ehhhhhh. Don't see why this couldn't have been a point cheaper with no large ship restriction. I'd put it on plenty of small ships if it was costed more reasonably. Since it's a discard it wouldn't be OP at 2 or even 1 point.

It's not bad if paired up with other things. I've used Glitterstim/Countermeasures as a combination on Boba Fett and it makes him nigh untouchable by massed fire for a round.

I don't think Engine Upgrade is an automatic choice. At the same time, Long Range Scanners is competing (sort of) with the lovely K4 security droid, which is constantly pinging off free target locks

Kind of makes me wonder how a Scimitar with LRS compares to a Zeta FO. The former is tougher, and usually has TL + F on the first pass, at the cost of a -1 PS, -1 green and a worse dial. Could be that the FO has completely replaced the un-ordnanced Bomber as a mid-cost jouster, but I'd have to try it out.

Is this worth the 26 points?

Tie Bomber

Extra Munitions

Concussion Missiles

Conner Net

Long-Range Scanners.

Helps with the alpha strike, then gives a bubble of no-ace for however long it lives. With standard Fel that leaves another 39 points.

Is this worth the 26 points?

Tie Bomber

Extra Munitions

Concussion Missiles

Conner Net

Long-Range Scanners.

Helps with the alpha strike, then gives a bubble of no-ace for however long it lives. With standard Fel that leaves another 39 points.

One more point gives you a missile that doesn't require you to spend your target lock, one less gives you a torpedo that lets your remove an extra shield. Could be Concussion is the best compromise, but I'd definitely consider the others as well. If flown with Tractor Beam Vessery Cluster could be good too.