Am I out to lunch in seeing the "depth of failure" (as you put it) as being pretty consistent with the Star Wars narrative in general?

I was obviously being glib in my summary, and I concede that the amount of manipulation necessary to create said tension is variable. But surely we all could have foreseen different alternatives -- some more sad, others less so. That's down to opinion, rather than narrative quality.

I also didn't see the film as a series of gut punches per se. I saw people who had gone through hell and had lived to tell the tale (well...at least until the start of TFA). I actually liked that Han went back to being a swindler. (I liked that a LOT, actually). Han and Leia's son going dark was pretty much directly in keeping with the IP and I see nothing harsh or unnecessary about it.

I saw these "undoings" as being a consistent part of the Star Wars universe -- even if they were an emotional challenge.

Fairly put. I perhaps over-responded. I saw your comment as simplifying an article that had actually already talked at some length in advance about the counter-point you made. Felt it was unfair. Yes, in some ways it is in keeping with the pattern of failure that is often laid down in Star Wars. Parents and children failing each other... it's a consistent motif, at least. I will concede it!

I'm not saying it has to be a show-stopper or bother everyone the same way. It was just an article I read that struck a chord with me. I realized as I read it that I felt somewhat similarly. Han and Leia's enduring loneliness and failure of their love is one of the things that contributed (I don't call it a fatal flaw) to me leaving the cinema feeling a little deflated.

I used the term "classical" in my last post. Mythological might have been a better term. Star Wars has always had a grand sweeping epicness about it. Now that can be Heroism as in RotJ, or it can be Tragedy as in RotS. But TFA didn't feel like either to me - or any great drama. Things like Leia and Han growing apart because they couldn't deal with the loss of their son, that's a different nature of emotional plotting. Like secondary colours to the primary of the OT and PT, if that analogy works for anyone.

I realize that my last several posts have been focused on the negative. There were things I enjoyed quite a bit in the film. The interactions between Han and Rey were great. Rey and Fin were excellent. At the opening I thought Abrams had dropped the ball on the cinematography with just the dull appearance of a planet. But then that Star Destroyer cut off the view of the planet in shadow and it returned the traditional Star Wars technique of unexpected scale shifts.

Anyway, sharing my thoughts.

I feel like the saving grace in regard to the depressing situation of the OT heroes is that you can see that Han and Leia still truly love each other. They could have been completely estranged, which would have been so much worse.

As far as Luke's failure goes, thankfully, he's still alive. I'm hopeful we'll get to see that wrong righted.

FN-2187

Anyone else notice that Finn's call number is the same as Leia's cell number on the Death Star?

Anyone else notice that Finn's call number is the same as Leia's cell number on the Death Star?

Very cool! Didn't notice that.

It should also be noted that Finn was just as useful as that cell in serving the needs of the Empire.

Today is the end of the Republic. The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder. At this very moment in a system far from here, the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the rogues of the Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet. All remaining systems will bow to the First Order and will remember this as the last day of the Republic!

It honestly feels pretty vague to me, but I guess that's the reason.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Destroy the Republic's government and cripple its military to retake its territory. It really doesn't sound any more vague than Tarkin talking about Alderaan being a demonstration of the Death Star's power.

The things that bothered me and left me underwhelmed is that the film raises more questions than it answers and leaves me feeling like I need to go read all the other material they are producing in order to understand what was going on.

For example, the Resistance ...... who are they resisting? It's not made clear in the film how the Republic, First Order, and La Resistance all work. If the Republic is in charge and the First Order is fighting them then why is there a resistance? Maybe it's a detail I missed in the opening crawl or something but I kept wondering why the Resistance mattered.

I'm not impressed with the super weapon. I kept wondering if the Starkiller was Mogo because it's never made clear how you move an actual planet through hyperspace. Furthermore whats even the point of it? And why is it being wasted on chasing down Luke if they are aiming to take over the world? More to the point, why not just make it known to the galaxy that until Luke shows himself you're just going to destroy star systems. Saves you the time of hunting down a small droid.

Snoke ..... just all of him ....also he needed a better name.

I do love the characters. Finn, Rey, and Poe are an awesome bunch to take over the series. Finn's excitement throughout the movie is somewhat infectious. Somewhat disappointed he's not really a Jedi but you know ....oh well .... still a good character.The chemistry between the three worked well.I think they are the heart of the new franchise and I'm glad they worked.

But still I left the theatre feeling underwhelmed.

Today is the end of the Republic. The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder. At this very moment in a system far from here, the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the rogues of the Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet. All remaining systems will bow to the First Order and will remember this as the last day of the Republic!

It honestly feels pretty vague to me, but I guess that's the reason.

It seems pretty straightforward to me. Destroy the Republic's government and cripple its military to retake its territory. It really doesn't sound any more vague than Tarkin talking about Alderaan being a demonstration of the Death Star's power.

Perhaps then it's because in Episode IV we know the rebels on the base. We know why they are a threat. We know why it makes sense for the Death Star to be used against Yavin then and there and we've seen events leading to all of this. We know what it means if Yavin is destroyed. In TFA a group of planets we've never heard of and a republic we've not even seen suddenly appear out of nowhere to be targets for the First Order to fire at. They could be any planets, any people. It's all very arbitrary. Huxtable proclaims in his speech that in "a system far from here, the New Republic lies... On this day the New Republic dies" So is the Republic just in the one system? Is that one system its government, then? Does destroying those planets targeted in the initial shot end the republic as Huxtable says? Or was that the further planets that they would have destroyed if Han and Chewie hadn't planted those bombs to blow the hatch? Is the Republic now dealt a fatal blow? Or are there another thousand planets in the Republic still. I honestly can't answer any of those. We've got a scrap of exposition from that speech Huxtable gives a few moments before it fires.

But I am still left with it pretty much just being in the middle of the film, Bad Guy Hux stands up and says: "Republic falls...deadly weapon" followed by a shot of some hitherto unmentioned, unseen planet far away blowing up.

Chalk this one up to Agree to Disagree if you like, but I'm just not seeing this as the same as the Death Star attacking the rebels on Yavin, having to hunt down those rebels by tracking Leia, Tarkin's "Senate has been dissolved... fear of this battle station..." and all that jazz. It felt very weak and arbitrarily "We are teh evilz" to me.

I've watched the movie only once thus far, but my first impression was quite positive. I did get out with more questions than answers (I much prefer mise en scène to exposition, but maybe a minimum of exposition was needed), but I don't think it's inherently a bad thing, and most viewers won't even notice. The historian in me wanted more info, info that I got after a quick research on Wookieepedia.

I liked:

- The stormtroopers became the badasses they were always meant to be.

- Kylo Ten was a really interesting character.

- General Hux was a more convincing villain than most in all the Star Wars movies. Actually, Force Awakens is the first Star Wars movie in which I don't automatically side with the "bad" guys (The Empire was the legitimate power in the Galaxy, rightfully and legally elected and fighting terrorists, while the Separatists were perfectly legitimate to leave a corrupt and barely working political entity). Doing that while avoiding the "doing evil because we're so evilz" trope is to Abrams' credit.

- The new guys. I was skeptical at first, but they were quite convincing and had on-screen chemistry.

- BB-8. After falling in love with Chopper in Rebels, and with all the merch of him everywhere, I got fed up with him, and went in with very lower expectations. I expected him to be a discount R2 clone, but he was adorable. You got me again, Paul Marketing!

- The old cast. It was fun to see them again, and the old chemistry was still strong.

What I didn't like:

- Starkiller Base. Did we really need a third one, even biggerer and betterer?

- And the ANH copy/paste in general. I know Abrams wanted to pan to the OT elitists, but that was a bit much.

- Lack of politics. I loved to see galactic politics in the PT, And somewhat hear about it through Tarkin in ANH. Here there's a New Republic and a First Order we basically don't know anything about, and a Resistance resisting... Something. Would've been cool (dare I say necessary?) to learn about the new political situation, especially with a 30 years gap between this movie and the last.

- Captain Phasma. She looked pretty cool but did absolutely nothing good. Heck, the only thing she did was get captured and disable the superweapon, which I perceived as very out of character. Big let down.

- Solo discovering the Falcon was one of the biggest Deus Ex Machina I've ever seen. As were those scum-eating Shoggoths Solo happened to have for some reason.

Even with those flaws, I really liked that movie, and I can't wait to watch it a second time now that I did my homework (although the fact I needed to do homework in the first place could be seen as a problem).

After my second viewing, I'm still not convinced Finn isn't Force Sensitive. My main reasoning behind this, is the planet destruction scene. He's loading helping load cargo onto the ship he plans to get to the Outer Rim on, and as he turns to look up into the sky at the lines of light crossing it, you can hear in the background, a large group of people panicking/screaming etc etc, with no group of people currently present in his vicinity aside from the two spacers he's planning on hitching a ride from and they are both silent.

It just kinda strikes a chord with the "It was as if a million voice cried out at once and were suddenly silenced". Also I wouldn't be surprised since Rei comes on so strong as a Jedi that Finn is also one, just suppressed by his lifetime of training by the FO. Or it could just be a false hope, who knows.

QUOTE OF THE MOVIE..., "That's not have the Force works!"

FTW

DROPS THE MIC!

Today is the end of the Republic. The end of a regime that acquiesces to disorder. At this very moment in a system far from here, the New Republic lies to the galaxy while secretly supporting the treachery of the rogues of the Resistance. This fierce machine which you have built, upon which we stand will bring an end to the Senate, to their cherished fleet. All remaining systems will bow to the First Order and will remember this as the last day of the Republic!

It honestly feels pretty vague to me, but I guess that's the reason.

And then compare that to the short and succinct exchange between Tagge and Tarkin:

"The Imperial Senate will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Emperor has dissolved the council permanently. The last remnants of the Old Republic have been swept away forever."

"But that's impossible! How will the Emperor maintain control without the bureaucracy?"

"The regional governors now have direct control over their territories. Fear will keep the local systems in line. Fear of this battle station."

Boom - done. The purpose of the Death Star and a clear summation of the Empire's goals in 30 seconds.

In TFA a group of planets we've never heard of and a republic we've not even seen suddenly appear out of nowhere to be targets for the First Order to fire at. They could be any planets, any people. It's all very arbitrary.

Hell, do the planets even have names? Okay, this is Star Wars where Ice Cream Maker Guy on Bespin, who's entire on-screen presence consists of 18 frames has a 28 page backstory - but do they have names in the film?

(Side note, That totally looked like Freema Agyeman on the Republic world looking up at the blast)

I assume Aftermath and following titles explain how the politics of it all end up in TFA?

Perhaps then it's because in Episode IV we know the rebels on the base. We know why they are a threat. We know why it makes sense for the Death Star to be used against Yavin then and there and we've seen events leading to all of this. We know what it means if Yavin is destroyed. In TFA a group of planets we've never heard of and a republic we've not even seen suddenly appear out of nowhere to be targets for the First Order to fire at.

Huh? The order is exactly the same as in Star Wars: First blow up something unrelated and then go for the rebel / resistance base. You are equating Yavin with the Republic government, when you should be equating the latter with Alderaan, which means your whole post is based on a false premise. Also, we actually know better in TFA why the bad guys go for the base, since we actually see the Resistance fight and beat the First Order; we never see the Rebellion do that in Star Wars, we only get told about it.

Alderaan was destroyed to make a point. In TFA, the First Order goes directly for the Republic government. Both are explained in dialogue / monologue beforehand. Then they go for the rebel / resistance base. It is absolutely the same.

After my second viewing, I'm still not convinced Finn isn't Force Sensitive.

How many 'special snowflakes' does one movie need?

Honestly, isn't it a good thing that there's a 'badass normal' as a hero? And not everyone needs to be a prodigy, a 'you're-awesome-because-of-your-bloodline' character?

I liked Rey more when she was a struggling and plucky survivor, or even a pilot/mechanics prodigy... She veered close to being a Mary Sue for me towards the end... Instant mind tricks on the stormtrooper to escape? Beating a big bad guy in her very first lightsaber fight? How 'awesome' does one character need to be?

Yes, I know they were pushing the 'strong woman' angle - she's no Leia, she doesn't need anyone to escape or hold her hand. We get it. I just think they overdid it.

After my second viewing, I'm still not convinced Finn isn't Force Sensitive.

How many 'special snowflakes' does one movie need?

Honestly, isn't it a good thing that there's a 'badass normal' as a hero? And not everyone needs to be a prodigy, a 'you're-awesome-because-of-your-bloodline' character?

I liked Rey more when she was a struggling and plucky survivor, or even a pilot/mechanics prodigy... She veered close to being a Mary Sue for me towards the end... Instant mind tricks on the stormtrooper to escape? Beating a big bad guy in her very first lightsaber fight? How 'awesome' does one character need to be?

Yes, I know they were pushing the 'strong woman' angle - she's no Leia, she doesn't need anyone to escape or hold her hand. We get it. I just think they overdid it.

Well he didn't say that Finn needed to be a prodigy that was awesome because of his bloodline. He just floated the idea that hey .... maybe Finn is Force senstive. World of difference.

Also a world of difference, Rey and Mary Sues. People really need to stop tossing the term out there whenever they disagree with how a female character is portrayed. And she didn't exactly instant mind trick the stormtrooper. Took her 3 attempts. That's far from instant. And yeah she defeated Kylo Ren, but barely.She was losing that fight until she used the Force to calm and center herself. But overall the film pretty much portrayed all three characters as being bad asses. Even Finn did an extremly good job during his lightsabre battle. Better than one would expect considering he also had no prior training. The only thing that really separated Rey from Finn was Rey being able to tap into the Force to help her win that fight. Otherwise the two did about equally well for their first real lightsabre battle.

But sure .... lets start calling her a Mary Sue.

I discovered this article that explains a lot of things happened between Ep VI and Ep VII

however, these are a lot of spoiler, so we warned!

I think many of the nay-sayers here are judging the movie for what it not is. I am happy I am not being spoonfed each and every detail it is not necessary. I am pretty sure those arguing against the movie on this matter would have opposed ANH had it been a new movie as well.

Then again there is no accounting for nerd rage and entitlement.

I think many of the nay-sayers here are judging the movie for what it not is. I am happy I am not being spoonfed each and every detail it is not necessary. I am pretty sure those arguing against the movie on this matter would have opposed ANH had it been a new movie as well.

Then again there is no accounting for nerd rage and entitlement.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion without it having to be "rage" or "entitlement". It's perfectly valid to make criticisms of a movie if you have them and no, we wouldn't all say the exact same thing about ANH, they're not the same films. You're also misrepresenting one of those criticisms when you characterize it as demanding to be spoonfed every detail. What's with the sarcastic tone? It's been explained fairly clearly. There's a big difference between not knowing something that is external to the story and not knowing something that is core to the story. We didn't know who Luke's father was in Ep IV. But it also wasn't held up as a big blank in who we knew Luke to be. Contrast that with Rey where we are hit multiple times with Mystery. What can work for a TV serial like Jessica Jones or Arrow, does not necessarily work well in a film. Like it or not, be bothered by it or not, ANH worked as a standalone movie whilst TFA is largely a set-up for later films. ANH is a story in itself, TFA basically assembles its cast and ends with a big "..."

There's a fairly meaningless sub-plot which appears in the middle of the film, blows up some planets which similarly just appear in the middle, and then is resolved some time before the end of the film and is primarily important for getting rid of Han (part of the assembling character roster for the sequels) and allowing a spaceship fight to appear on screen.

You can't pretend that TFA is complete in the information it provides in the same way that ANH is, or that it is anywhere near as standalone. It is much closer to ESB in what it attempts than it is to ANH.

I agree with Kael in that the term "mary sue" is being thrown around way too much in regards to Rey. And frankly I feel it's largely because Rey is a female lead in a part of the industry (big-budget action movies) that are most often dominated by a white male lead. Were it a white male lead doing all that, I doubt anyone would bat an eye at it.

We saw half-pint Anakin do all sorts of "sue" things in Phantom Menace (built his own droid, build a podracer, win at a sport that Humans generally can't perform in, etc), but he largely got a pass because 1) he's "the chosen one!" and 2) a white male.

We see Poe Dameron do stuff that makes the fighter pilots of all the prior films look like chumps, but there's no derision for those over-the-top piloting antics like taking out several TIEs in a single run (occurred during the battle at Maz's place).

Speaking as a white male, I am 100% on board with Rey being able to tap into the Force as she did in the film and in general kick butt. We most certainly don't know her whole story, and personally I don't think she's quite as "untrained" as the audience was lead to believe.

Another reason I'm on board with Rey being awesome in the film... it gives young girls of this generation a very positive role model in a franchise that has been kind of lacking. Rey is no helpless damsel the way that a great many female leads in an action movie wind up being. She's clever, capable, can stand on her own, and while certainly very attractive said attractiveness isn't played up (I really hope she doesn't wind up in the equivalent of Leia's RotJ slave girl outfit). Yes, there is Leia, but she's from an older set of films that many young girls may not have seen or have much interest in seeing.

So no, Rey isn't a "mary sue." She's a highly capable young woman that is the leading character in a franchise where the leading character has always been far more capable than their immediate peers.

/rant

All I see is "doesn't work in a film" "not knowing something that is core to the story" and I see my indeed somewhat sarcastic remark being underscored again. Everyone gets you don't like the movie everyone gets your reasons for it as you have gone on about them for literally pages right now but apparently you need to express your contrary opinion to the nth degree so much so that all discussion bynrhose that enjoyed the movie is being sidelined. If not nerdrage or entitlement than what else do we call that?

I don't need you to like it but it seems you need others to dislike it just a bit too much.

There is nothing vague about the reasons of blowing up the system that houses the senate, it is not weird that somethings arenleft unexplained. ANH was going to be a stand alone film whereas TFA never was, your "but they don't tell me everything!"-shtick seems very weird given how you know full well what is about to come.

I agree with Kael in that the term "mary sue" is being thrown around way too much in regards to Rey. And frankly I feel it's largely because Rey is a female lead in a part of the industry (big-budget action movies) that are most often dominated by a white male lead. Were it a white male lead doing all that, I doubt anyone would bat an eye at it.

We saw half-pint Anakin do all sorts of "sue" things in Phantom Menace (built his own droid, build a podracer, win at a sport that Humans generally can't perform in, etc), but he largely got a pass because 1) he's "the chosen one!" and 2) a white male.

We see Poe Dameron do stuff that makes the fighter pilots of all the prior films look like chumps, but there's no derision for those over-the-top piloting antics like taking out several TIEs in a single run (occurred during the battle at Maz's place).

Speaking as a white male, I am 100% on board with Rey being able to tap into the Force as she did in the film and in general kick butt. We most certainly don't know her whole story, and personally I don't think she's quite as "untrained" as the audience was lead to believe.

Another reason I'm on board with Rey being awesome in the film... it gives young girls of this generation a very positive role model in a franchise that has been kind of lacking. Rey is no helpless damsel the way that a great many female leads in an action movie wind up being. She's clever, capable, can stand on her own, and while certainly very attractive said attractiveness isn't played up (I really hope she doesn't wind up in the equivalent of Leia's RotJ slave girl outfit). Yes, there is Leia, but she's from an older set of films that many young girls may not have seen or have much interest in seeing.

So no, Rey isn't a "mary sue." She's a highly capable young woman that is the leading character in a franchise where the leading character has always been far more capable than their immediate peers.

/rant

Not that I agree with the "Rey is a Mary Sue" crowd, but to put your comparisons in the light a little better, Anakin really was described as the chosen one very early on, it was made very obvious that he was supposed to do awesome things. The movie pretty much pointed at the awesome things and exclaimed "Look at the great things he can do, this is because he is the chosen one!" Rey has not. Rey is a backwater orphan, the movie never comes out and tells you she is more than that. Hints at it sure, but that's a problem with the whole movie, leaving nearly everything unanswered. Many people would have the same things to say about Anakin if he were in the exact same position.

Further, Poe is extremely "OP", he is the one I would go so far as to say is the male version of a Mary Sue, largely due to the fight over Maz's place. Unless they later decide he too is force sensitive, he defies all of my suspension of disbelief.

As a side note, I really feel a lot of the "This person is probably a force sensitive" is less hopeful wishing to have more special snowflakes, and more grasping for an explanation to how skilled the character is. It's true, the movie doesn't need more special snowflakes, having badass "normies" is a cool thing and likely good for the movie. But at the same time, a badass normie will rarely if ever be on the same power level as a special snowflake, that's just how it works. So until they demonstrate the special snowflakes really are a few steps above the badass normies, we have no way to tell the difference. If they never demonstrate that, we're forced to assume there are no badass normies at all, and instead that they "must" be special snowflakes themselves. I would see it as a flaw, not a boon, if all the main characters were special snowflakes, but until they show us that gap, it's hard to see them as anything else.

I agree with Kael in that the term "mary sue" is being thrown around way too much in regards to Rey. And frankly I feel it's largely because Rey is a female lead in a part of the industry (big-budget action movies) that are most often dominated by a white male lead. Were it a white male lead doing all that, I doubt anyone would bat an eye at it.

Completely agree. Rey is a good character, strong and self-reliant, but also allowed to show emotions and be weak. She is actually far more rounded than many male action heroes, because she is allowed to cry and be afraid - and overcome it, of course.

I am very happy that she is pretty much the lead character. It is obviously very difficult to challenge these perceptions and present women as action heroes, but a vehicle as popular as Star Wars gives filmmakers and studios much more leeway, since the franchise attracts enough people. And now kids see a strong female character like that, get used to it and bit by bit, the world changes. I have spoken to quite a few women about the movie and they all loved Rey.

And finally, Daisy Ridley pulls it all off with a great performance.

All I see is "doesn't work in a film" "not knowing something that is core to the story" and I see my indeed somewhat sarcastic remark being underscored again. Everyone gets you don't like the movie everyone gets your reasons for it as you have gone on about them for literally pages right now but apparently you need to express your contrary opinion to the nth degree so much so that all discussion bynrhose that enjoyed the movie is being sidelined. If not nerdrage or entitlement than what else do we call that?

An opinion. I'm only replying to those who take issue with it. If not interested, move on. No big deal. You're the one doing name-calling, personal attacks and seeming defensive about other people having a contrary opinion. I'm fine with other people enjoying it. I enjoyed several parts of it myself and said so in my earlier posts. What I object to is not anyone having different opinions, but complaining about a "sense of entitlement" by those they disagree with or telling us we "would have hated ANH when it came out". There's no call for that.

I don't need you to like it but it seems you need others to dislike it just a bit too much.

This is just character attack. I've nowhere criticized anyone for not disliking the film. By all means go through all my previous posts in this thread and point out where I have. Otherwise drop the personal attacks. Or better, apologize for making things up.

There is nothing vague about the reasons of blowing up the system that houses the senate, it is not weird that somethings arenleft unexplained. ANH was going to be a stand alone film whereas TFA never was, your "but they don't tell me everything!"-shtick seems very weird given how you know full well what is about to come.

You're now supporting my point - ANH was meant to stand alone as a film. TFA clearly isn't. That is my criticism. I dislike that. Telling me that something is intended doesn't contradict that it is or suddenly make me come out of the cinema feeling like I've enjoyed a story, rather than watched a very long prelude.

Now you are welcome to challenge me on how I feel about the film in any legitimate way, like Frangio did, but not to complain that other people post too much or just want to hate because of double-standards. I already wrote what I did like about the film earlier. The reason you're still reading posts about what I didn't like about the film is because you are trying to criticize me for what I said I didn't like. So that becomes the topic of conversation for as long as you continue to do so.

Rey is a backwateorphan, the movie never comes out and tells you she is more than that.

Of course it does. There is Maz, aka the wise mentor of the Hero's Journey, telling her that Luke's lightsaber "is calling out to her", there is her vision, together one of the key scenes of the film. That Rey is special is explicitly stated in the movie. At least as much as Luke is in Star Wars, but really more so.

Her mechanical skills are also explained in the movie. Her Force abilities are implicated and later confirmed. She goes zero to hero quite fast, but we should remember that Luke goes from Yoda not wanting to train him to "your training is complete, now please face the two most powerful Sith Lords" in the span of the Millenium Falcon getting stuck in an asteroid worm and then the crew getting caught by Darth Vader, which is a couple of days, tops. He also goes from farm boy to ace fighter pilot in less time. Star Wars has always been more about innate talent than training, regardless of what the Jedi claim.

If Rey was a guy, few would bat an eye, as we have seen when the supremely talented and destined guys did all kinds of stuff in the six movies that came before.

Rey is a backwateorphan, the movie never comes out and tells you she is more than that.

Of course it does. There is Maz, aka the wise mentor of the Hero's Journey, telling her that Luke's lightsaber "is calling out to her", there is her vision, together one of the key scenes of the film. That Rey is special is explicitly stated in the movie. At least as much as Luke is in Star Wars, but really more so.

Her mechanical skills are also explained in the movie. Her Force abilities are implicated and later confirmed. She goes zero to hero quite fast, but we should remember that Luke goes from Yoda not wanting to train him to "your training is complete, now please face the two most powerful Sith Lords" in the span of the Millenium Falcon getting stuck in an asteroid worm and then the crew getting caught by Darth Vader, which is a couple of days, tops. He also goes from farm boy to ace fighter pilot in less time. Star Wars has always been more about innate talent than training, regardless of what the Jedi claim.

If Rey was a guy, few would bat an eye, as we have seen when the supremely talented and destined guys did all kinds of stuff in the six movies that came before.

Y'know, I've seen the movie twice and I totally forgot about that whole scene with Maz. It was so fast and so jumbled and then she up and runs away from it the second Maz stops talking. (Again just a problem with Abrams' style) So you have a very good point.

I never questioned her mechanical skills, that's been part of her living for the last I don't know how many years, but most of her life.

So yea, you're right, the scene I was lacking is there already xD man I hate the pacing of this movie.

The more I sit and think over it the less I like it.

But while I still have definite problems with both Poe and Finn (who from what I understand, that village raid was Finn's first mission? Or is that another thing I misunderstood due to what little information is in the movie being flown past at hyperspeed?) I'm good with Rey now.

But while I still have definite problems with both Poe and Finn (who from what I understand, that village raid was Finn's first mission? Or is that another thing I misunderstood due to what little information is in the movie being flown past at hyperspeed?) I'm good with Rey now.

Poe is suppose to be the best of the best. The Top Gun of the Resistance. Which is relayed by Kylo during Poe's interrogation. What surprised me was how good he was, but I take it at face value. He is an exceptional pilot who is heads and shoulders above the others. Not unheard of really. Kinda like Star Wars Red Baron.

Finn - Yes it was his first Actual time being deployed on a Mission. He was also recently transferred to Phasma's command from his duties on the base. He was raised to be a Storm Trooper with no record of non compliance prior to that mission.

For me the pacing was fine. If it was to fast for your tastes it is understandable your looking for the explanations you feel are there, but flew by you.