Yet somehow it didn't feel like Star Wars to me, more like the EU

Well, here's an interesting tidbit about the movie from Entertainment Weekly :

"Abrams pointed to the scene in Starkiller Base where Adam Driver’s Kylo Ren is interrogating Daisy Ridley’s Rey and finally takes off his mask. The moment where he puts his mask down into that table of ash was meant for an early sequence. “The backstory is, that that table has the ashes of the enemies he’s killed,” Abrams says. “That moment was actually shot for, and meant to be used in, the scene where he was talking to the Vader mask.” In other words, that table of ash was originally in Ren’s private quarters. And the fact that he incinerates and preserves the remains of his foes adds a new, eerie dimension to his Dark Side nostalgia — and hoarding tendencies."

He’s overcompensating in a really morbid way, using this to say, “Look at me! See how evil I am! Dudes, so ******’ evil over here!!! Guys? Anyone? Hello?”

He is a petulant child with unimaginable powers throwing a temper tantrum. He wears a mask not because he needs to, but because it looks cool. He’s a very insecure wannabe.

He wants to emulate Vader, to BE Vader, but he can't be. I think that is where the brunt of his conflict comes from.

I always finds it odd, the scene where he asks Darth Vader for forgiveness ... ? That's not a very dark sidey thing now is it ...

I just saw this on the FB page as well... Are you the same guy?

Also, as far as I am concerned the "dark" side is not "evil" perse but way more layered than that. just like the "light" side doesn't necessarely mean "good"...

I think things like insecurity, feelings of inadequacy, jealousy, pettiness, fear, etc. are all very much dark side feelings.

I always finds it odd, the scene where he asks Darth Vader for forgiveness ... ? That's not a very dark sidey thing now is it ...

That's kind of the point, though. He struggles with following the Dark Side.

That said, plenty of Sith have asked for forgiveness. Usually for their failures under duress from their master's Force Lightning.

Troll much?

Given what I know of JJ Abrams I don't think it's an accident that the film's antagonist was basically an ascended fanboy throwing fits when he didn't get what he wanted, whereas one of the protagonists was a (Female) newcomer who proved to be more deserving of the prize the antagonist coveted.

I finally got a chance to watch my shiny new DVD. The original one had a big scratch in it and had to be sent back to Amazon. Overall verdict on the new watching after a few months respit from the last.

The movie has plot holes and issues you can drive a truck through. That said, I still really enjoy it I might knock it from my third favorite down to forth (after the original trilogy.) I could see it wavering back up to third depending on my mood of the day.

I just saw the digital download version, and all the extras.

IMO, TFA is better than any of the Prequels, although it does have a lot of plot holes and other issues that you could drive entire galaxies through, not just some space truck.

But still pretty good, and enjoyable for me.

I just saw the digital download version, and all the extras.

IMO, TFA is better than any of the Prequels, although it does have a lot of plot holes and other issues that you could drive entire galaxies through, not just some space truck.

But still pretty good, and enjoyable for me.

Is it a plot with holes, or is it essentially plot-less with plot-strings woven around the void?

The Force Awakens has no more plot holes than the original trilogy or any

Flash Gordon serial which served as inspiration for the films.

Remember, the escape pod tha had no life forms and the gunnery crew could have blasted out of the sky, preventing the death star from being destroyed because what? Firing a blaster was too expensive or they were exceptionally lazy or incompetent? I mean, these gunners have never seen a droid before?

The moral here, if you are the big bad evil guy, instruct your troops to know that shooting down escape pods is the Standard Operating Procedure.

The moral here, if you are the big bad evil guy, instruct your troops to know that shooting down escape pods is the Standard Operating Procedure.

Or if only they had a way to capture the pod so they could search it for the plans. Like some kind of beam that could just grab it and reel it in...

The plot of any movie tends to crumble once you start dissecting it and applying real-world rational thinking to it. Of course, as viewers we're much more genre savvy than the people in the film, on top of having the benefit of being detached enough from the immediate situation that we can analyze it over and over and pick apart the failings of each character's course of action.

Of course, there's also the crowd that decry any element of the story that's not fully explained right then and there as being a "plot hole."

Agreed. For instance, any zombie movie or show, people do stupid things that we haveing seen a zombie movie would never do.

The plot of any movie tends to crumble once you start dissecting it and applying real-world rational thinking to it. Of course, as viewers we're much more genre savvy than the people in the film, on top of having the benefit of being detached enough from the immediate situation that we can analyze it over and over and pick apart the failings of each character's course of action.

Of course, there's also the crowd that decry any element of the story that's not fully explained right then and there as being a "plot hole."

Not to mention that we have the benefit of hindsight.

There's a difference between something that seems off to us as outside viewers with "god's eye" knowledge of everything going on, after the fact and with all the facts -- and stuff that just makes no **** sense almost immediately while watching, where you can almost see the idiot ball being thrown around like mad between the characters and it all comes down to a "coincidence wreck pileup."

Just watched with my daughter last night, she hadn't seen it in the theatres. Early on she exclaims "this is great!", nice to know she wasn't humouring me She didn't like the death-star-again concept, but forgave it because she enjoyed the rest.

Anyway, we get to the end on the island and she laughs: "it's like Kill Bill, and she's looking for Pai-Mei-Luke"...

Good watching on many of the subjects touched on in these threads.

E: Also, on the general subject of why I hate Hollywood. Or this.

I always wonder at what point in time the meaning of the words plot hole switched from "Logical inconsistency in a story" to "Something we were not (yet) told"...

I always wonder at what point in time the meaning of the words plot hole switched from "Logical inconsistency in a story" to "Something we were not (yet) told"...

They didn't.

The problem is that "we'll tell you later" became an excuse for extremely poor storycraft (and one of the poster children for that is Lost ... hmmm...) "The Mystery Box" isn't good storytelling, it's just halfarse way to string an audience along. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, confound them with nonsense."

There's a difference between a genuine plot twist... versus story-vital information being withheld for the sake of a cheap pop later. When the audience is left scratching their heads and saying "Why did that happen? What's going on with these characters? What's going on here?" by the end of the movie, that's a failure on the part of those making the movie.

I always wonder at what point in time the meaning of the words plot hole switched from "Logical inconsistency in a story" to "Something we were not (yet) told"...

They didn't.

The problem is that "we'll tell you later" became an excuse for extremely poor storycraft (and one of the poster children for that is Lost ... hmmm...) "The Mystery Box" isn't good storytelling, it's just halfarse way to string an audience along. "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, confound them with nonsense."

So "They didn't" but here is why it did anyway... (although I agree about why Lost did fall into this category but only because it never tied up on any of the mysteries, ever...)

There's a difference between a genuine plot twist... versus story-vital information being withheld for the sake of a cheap pop later. When the audience is left scratching their heads and saying "Why did that happen? What's going on with these characters? What's going on here?" by the end of the movie, that's a failure on the part of those making the movie.

Yeah, none of these things, in my opinion, hold any water when it comes to TFA. Then again I am aware of your way of reasoning and how you and I won't see eye to eye on this so it is no use discussing this I guess.

If you consider how you linked that horrific Cracked thingy as some sort of evidence or as some sort of support for your opinion then it is safe to safe it won't be a healthy discussion, ever.

Edit: which is not to say that you are not entitled to feeling and/or thinking the way you do. I don't want to come off as a jerk.

I linked to it as something that touches on the same subjects as touched on in these threads.

TFA is pretty much "hit these Star Wars bullet points", in the style of Lost .

Completely and utterly disagree.

Here you go, Cinema Sins does E7: