In Lords of the Sith, we do see entire militarized bridge crews fight Darth Vader. It turns out as well as you'd expect.

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

Most naval crews aren't exactly hardened combat veterans / elite in the sense of engaging in close-quarters firefights.

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

Most naval crews aren't exactly hardened combat veterans / elite in the sense of engaging in close-quarters firefights.

That depends on whether you game/GM is allowing for an alternate history of events or is maintaining absolute cannon the denies any possibility of change.

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

Most naval crews aren't exactly hardened combat veterans / elite in the sense of engaging in close-quarters firefights.

That depends on whether you game/GM is allowing for an alternate history of events or is maintaining absolute cannon the denies any possibility of change.

My comment was in the context of his appearances in "canon fiction" that backfill between RotS and the events shown on-screen in the original trilogy.

See the post directly above mine -- https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/196032-running-from-vader/?p=2015919

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

Most naval crews aren't exactly hardened combat veterans / elite in the sense of engaging in close-quarters firefights.

Neither are my player characters

I see your point. However, I don't agree.

But as you pointed out, I don't think it serves us good to debate hypothetical situations when the ultimate outcome has already been decided.

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

But as you pointed out, I don't think it serves us good to debate hypothetical situations when the ultimate outcome has already been decided.

That depends on how you run your game. I always remind my players right up front that if they do something to alter canon, we'll go with it. Kill Solo? Depending on when, I guess Luke and Obi-Wan find someone else to get them off Alderaan, get captured, and the Empire goes on to rule the Galaxy with the Death Star, or whatever makes the most sense in your story.

To tell player characters that they cannot do something because, well, that's just not how the story goes is something I never want to do. I will, however, fully allow Vader to kill as many of them as he can if they choose to tangle with him. Not my first notion, of course. My players have tried to "handle" Solo and his wookiee and collect the bounty on him from Jabba, but that didn't go very well for them.

So I suppose what I would advise, my own opinion of course, is to allow them to change canon if they can... but there's no reason to make it easy for them.

In one campaign, they saw Vader fighting another Jedi down in the street from their 2nd story window. One of the PCs, the character not knowing who it was, shot at him. Vader deflected it back into his face. That was about it for that idea.

It's not like they can kill him... we've seen where and when he dies.

But as you pointed out, I don't think it serves us good to debate hypothetical situations when the ultimate outcome has already been decided.

That depends on how you run your game. I always remind my players right up front that if they do something to alter canon, we'll go with it. Kill Solo? Depending on when, I guess Luke and Obi-Wan find someone else to get them off Alderaan, get captured, and the Empire goes on to rule the Galaxy with the Death Star, or whatever makes the most sense in your story.

To tell player characters that they cannot do something because, well, that's just not how the story goes is something I never want to do. I will, however, fully allow Vader to kill as many of them as he can if they choose to tangle with him. Not my first notion, of course. My players have tried to "handle" Solo and his wookiee and collect the bounty on him from Jabba, but that didn't go very well for them.

So I suppose what I would advise, my own opinion of course, is to allow them to change canon if they can... but there's no reason to make it easy for them.

In one campaign, they saw Vader fighting another Jedi down in the street from their 2nd story window. One of the PCs, the character not knowing who it was, shot at him. Vader deflected it back into his face. That was about it for that idea.

My comment was in the context of his appearances in "canon fiction" that backfill between RotS and the events shown on-screen in the original trilogy.

See the post directly above mine -- https://community.fa...ader/?p=2015919

Correct, I was referring to hypothetical fights.

If I were pit Darth Vader against my PCs, you can bet I'm not going to protect him so Luke can redeem him. I'll just roll with whatever happens.

I'm thinking of using Vader in the opening to the "Season 2" of my campaign, which will start during the imperial attack on Ecco Base. I'm planning on putting together a sound bite of the "Impreial troops have entered the base-" that is cut off by a choking/snapping sound and Vader's breathing before the sound cuts out, and having the players roll a RRRP Fear check as they feel his presence enter the base, which the force sensitives will feel as a "Living wound in the force, as if a thousand souls are crying out in anguish". Anyone who doesn't immediately turn and flee from that, well, there's the literally an entire battalion of the 501st (All Rival class troopers, officers are Adversary 1. They are supposed to be the elite of the elite right?) fighting alongside the Dark Lord of the Sith, and his 7 Force dice. I want them to get the idea that fleeing to the safety of there ship and getting off planet is there only hope of survival. I'm fairly certain they will decide discrestion is the better part of valor, and if someone wants a new character for the second season, well, the old character can die a hero's death letting the rest escape. I'd call it a win/win.

Guess the opinions divide, but we have clues on how to use Vader for different occasions.

Some preffer to change the die a bit if neccessary, like me, so that Vader won't die.
Those individuals will do a straight forward encounter, with narrative elements discribing Vaders incredible feats.

While others don't want to change the die, those probably create a powerfull NPC,
But take a more narrative approach, so it is believable, but they have to possibillity to let Vader die.
If the GM is not okay with that, they will probably not use Vader as an enemie to encounter, while others are okay to have an own Universe with a custom storyline.


In the end it is about presentation and how you want to use Vader.
Is he a tool of intimidation?
Is he a boss?
Is he a narrative plot hook?

Do you want to overwhelm or let your players have a fair edge?



I personally would use Vader only if the players caught alot of Inquisitorial attention and killed the Grand Inquisitor, which would be a hard fight by himself.
And at this point they would need to be reminded that causing that much attention is dangerous, because if they could just run around and kill everything the game has little sense in my personal opinion.

But that all is a matter of perspective

My opinion is that Vader should be busier with other things during most points in the timeline between his fall and his death.

In a setting as big as Star Wars, there's so much going on, and the PCs are going to have to become the Biggest of Big Deals in order to attract that kind of attention.

Using Vader is a cop out. It's an even bigger cop out if he's not statted and can't be killed. That will kill any game since the players will know that the deck is stacked against them and there is no fair way for them to succeed. The game is supposed to be cooperative storytelling and having a Vader with no stats running around is an adversarial approach and not a cooperative approach. Create a new villain that has ties to one of the group members and make them powerful. If you want the villain to be a Force user then use any of the other Dark Side traditions, except for the Sith. For example, there is The Krath that are Sith affiliated, but do not descend from the Sith directly.

Give your players plenty of opportunities to use the force in new ways to hide themselves. In the campaign I'm in, our group is on Tython and since the two Force Users in the group are Je'daii they are balanced with the Force. This makes it very difficult to detect them as the planet is a nexus of the Force. Give the players an opportunity to find a planet that is bathed in the dark side to hide in since the shadow of darkness will swallow up the light. If they get caught using the Force or lightsabers in public then give them the opportunity to hide out on this planet for a time to throw the Inquisitor/BBEG off their trail.

Another example from A Twin's Tale campaign, is the use of building up force storms around their base and allow only a Force user pilot to be able to navigate it. They created the field and they can alter it to allow them safe passage. A final thought, the galaxy is very, very big and Vader is off trying to find Luke Skywalker not go around chasing other Force Users that survived the purge. That's what the Inquisitors are for. Vader's mission is to find Luke and to bring him to the Emperor which is what he is doing in canon between ANH and RotJ.

In A Twin's Tale campaign, our GM threw us against Mara Jade as the Emperor's Hand. Due to really lucky die rolling for my character, I got 3 successes, 4 advantages, and 1 Triumph in his first round of combat with her. I took her leg out then we captured the remaining squad of stormtroopers that were with her. We interrogated her for information and through a series of social interaction rolls we managed to convince her to leave the Emperor and join us. We even severed the link between her and the Emperor. She ended up giving us all the codes for the Imperial military and can pretty much go anywhere we want now in the Deep Core. To protect us, she left and we don't know what she's doing. However, the brother reattached her leg and she feels attracted to my character.

Vader and the Emperor are the ultimate BBEGs in a campaign. Therefore, all the standard "protections" afforded them should be in place until the "final battle".

The first time the players meet them, unless they're 1000+XP and have done some amazing things and have FRs in the 3s and 4s, it should be quickly demonstrated that they're in an entirely different class. It's not that they -can't- damage Vader, it's that they soon realize that whatever is going to stop Vader is "not us".

Eventually, if the plot calls for it, there can be an ultimate showdown between Vader and the party. At -that- point (and really, only at that point) should Vader have stats and should there be a realistic chance of the party defeating him.

I liken it to a party in D&D seeing a lich or a dragon slaughtering villagers. Sure, they can take a few pot shots at them, but, unless they're around the same level, it quickly becomes clear that running is the much more intelligent course of action.

Vader is in the Rescue at Glare Peak adventure and interestingly he is not statted like other characters. Instead he acts more like a countdown, an unstoppable threat who its best to get out of the way.

He arrives after a certain amount of encounters. Then he gets two move manuevers per turn. If he gets into Engaged range with a character they are immediately incapacitated.

I'll probably use something similar in my Force and Destiny camapign.

I think rolls are important, to give the players some feeling of doing anything.

However you should remember, that by slaying the dragon, there's nothing left to do.

It can even tarnish future games:

"Hey remember, when we killed Vader?" "Yeah... huh..."

"Never give the players an opportunity to fight someone who you don't want dead."

Edit -- missed a "you" in there somehow...

There are other RAW options, as in the rescue at glare peak route... i've modified that slightly, I told my players that they could spend a destiny point to take a critical hit instead of being incapacitated. I have no intention of using Vader in my bounty hunter campaign, but I've given them fair warning about what they would be up against if they ever wanted to fight him

Well, my party might be having a runin with Vader soon. Not intentional, the hyperdrive coordinates sent us off in the wrong direction and to a planet with a overwhelming pressence of life. A super class star destoryer turned up in orbit.

Oh my.

Well, my party might be having a runin with Vader soon. Not intentional, the hyperdrive coordinates sent us off in the wrong direction and to a planet with a overwhelming pressence of life. A super class star destoryer turned up in orbit.

Oh my.

Let us know how it goes

Well, my party might be having a runin with Vader soon. Not intentional, the hyperdrive coordinates sent us off in the wrong direction and to a planet with a overwhelming pressence of life. A super class star destoryer turned up in orbit.

Oh my.

Let us know how it goes

Well, I'll make the post later, we have encountered Vader but the session closed there... XD

Well, my party might be having a runin with Vader soon. Not intentional, the hyperdrive coordinates sent us off in the wrong direction and to a planet with a overwhelming pressence of life. A super class star destoryer turned up in orbit.

Oh my.

Let us know how it goes

Well, I'll make the post later, we have encountered Vader but the session closed there... XD

*Heavy Breathing*

*Tensions intensifies*

It's one of those things, isn't it? There are pros and cons of both approaches, and what works for one group won't work for another. In the end, do what works for your game and no less. As long as you AND your players walk away from the game satisfied, then you've done the right thing.

Vader and the Emperor are the ultimate BBEGs in a campaign. Therefore, all the standard "protections" afforded them should be in place until the "final battle".

The first time the players meet them, unless they're 1000+XP and have done some amazing things and have FRs in the 3s and 4s, it should be quickly demonstrated that they're in an entirely different class. It's not that they -can't- damage Vader, it's that they soon realize that whatever is going to stop Vader is "not us".

Eventually, if the plot calls for it, there can be an ultimate showdown between Vader and the party. At -that- point (and really, only at that point) should Vader have stats and should there be a realistic chance of the party defeating him.

I liken it to a party in D&D seeing a lich or a dragon slaughtering villagers. Sure, they can take a few pot shots at them, but, unless they're around the same level, it quickly becomes clear that running is the much more intelligent course of action.

Run? I thought all PCs were too stubborn to run. I thought RPG meant PCs win EVERY fight, so why would they run? Because story? Because some things...like Vader...are last chapter BBEGs? That just ludicrous.

(sarcasm)