He is a wonderful and recognisable actor, and I had expected - or hoped - more for him in the movie, so I was also a bit surprised. Then again the quality they can get for the smaller roles speaks volumes for the franchise (whereas some of the leading roles haven't always been the brightest of their craft).

as we get acquainted with Poe Dameron, I got the gut feeling that this was the death bell for the character he will be replacing.

Yes, RIP Wedge

Him to, I suppose. But I think you know at whom I hinted. Heck they even had that whole think about Poe's leather jacket vs. his.

Hillarious detail, btw, from looking up Max von Sydow's role, I noticed that there were actually an actor named Dameron in the movie. Ironically he is creditted as Commodore Meta. Very meta indeed

Well, that brilliant. Still processing a lot of it and going again on Saturday.

The casting was spot on I think with great natural warm humour and a million nods to the OT. That's in a way it's one potential weakness too, the plot is very reminiscent of ANH but I kind of like how it's almost a sequel and a reboot in one.

The new main characters are well played. Rey is a badass without realising she is, I loved her and Finns "did you see that" moment. Her bettering of Kylo Ren could have been very cheesy.

But that leads me onto the portrayal of him as both arrogant and wracked with self doubt. He is sure of his power but not of his course. When he meets someone that shakes that belief in his power it all starts to teeter for him. Of course Chewie and Finn softening him up certainly helps. We don't see an untrained nobody win for no reason. Rey is already competent at close combat as we see on Jakku, she has the clarity of purpose that Kylo seems to lack while I suspect Snoke has deliberately neglected to train a lot of what he could have. Kylo is very much half trained himself. He has had his success because there is no force user out there to challenge him rather than because he has actually mastered it.

I loved the ending. Is Luke going to come back? I reckon so of course but Its left hanging. Then there is the large unanswered question regarding who exactly is Rey along with why and by whom she was left on Jakku. I kept expecting her to be revealed as Kylo's sister. Maybe she is his cousin instead. Is she another branch of the Skywalker family tree or totally unrelated? I suspect the former still but I guess we have a long wait to find out.

The Force has re-Awakened this thread.

We've still got plenty of EU ships to go through, so that's fine. Well, at least for Scum/Imps...

We really don't. We've been scraping the bottom of the EU barrel for a couple of waves now.

For Rebs maybe... only others I can think of are the Pulsar Skate and maybe one of the several X-wing variants. It'd be weird to throw in the Deathseeds and Gand bombers, but they could. But yes, they've got every critical, well known alphabet-wing already in circulation.

Imps still have the gunboat, missile boat, Skipray, several interesting TIE variants including the Hunter, Vanguard, TIE Droid, *maybe* the Avenger and/or Scimitar.

Scum have well, everything: Cloakshapes, the Khirazx's brethren, numerous light freighters, more Galaxies stuff, Scurrg/Havoc, etc...

Well that was great fun.

Pluses

+++ +++ Kylo Ren - The best thing about this film, imo. Loved the way he was trying to be Vader, but just not being able to manage it. Not choking the officer but losing his temper, all the doubt and conflict, being out played by Lord Snooty McShoutington officer guy.

+++ Lord Snooty McShoutington officer guy was everything I wanted from a First Order officer.

+++ Poe was everything I wanted from a cool space ace dude.

+++ Harrison Ford was the best Harrison Ford I've seen for a decade or two.

Negs

--- No one can do a good space battle any more.

--- pacing felt too rushed near the end

--- A few too many call-backs

Was.Blown.Away.

Quite simply the best Star Wars movie since the Empire Strikes Back.

My thoughts exactly. I've said the same in the Off topic TFA thread (which i think we should all use tbh as its the right place)

Poe flew like he was riding on the back of 3 force ghosts all whom was master pilots, while Max Von Sydow was singing "Kiss from a rose" to him!!!

Snooke being Plaguies? Maybe, for now they gave given me zero reasons to care for that CGI hologram Voldemort look a like, he brought nothing to the movie, no info about anything, waste of screen time that could have been used better as I agree some scenes were a bit rushed. But all in all a great movie

Thing is, Snoke had no part to play in this part of the story beyond letting is know that Kylo Ren isnt actually the big bad. Planting seeds nothing more. I'm sure there is lots more to come from him

I'm fine with that. Very Palpatine-Vader in the OT.

And yeah I love Ren losing it like that,

Was played so much better than the Anakin scenes in the PT despite essentially being the same sort of strop we saw from him. Seemed more natural for some reason.

Loved the two Stormie's coming round the corner, thinking better of it and going back the way they came!

The emperor is mentioned in A New Hope but never shown as he brougt nothing to the story, same vice should have been used here, create a new mystery instead of flat out revealing Snoke. There was so many Good jokes

Just watched the movie. Some thoughts:

1. That *bleep* pilot doesn't look like he has PS *bleep* and doesn't seem to do any fancy *bleep* cos he got *bleep*-ed.

2. Aux rear arc on small base ship. Gonna love this.

3. That ugly, horizontal-only-non-gyroscopic next-gen B-wing. No, we don't need it as a new ship for X-wing. Make Kylo's shuttle instead for wave 9 please.

I was honestly expecting a "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" scene.

I've said it elsewhere.

Kylo would make me piss myself in fear if he walked into my house.

No.

My planet.

I feel like Kylo is a badass at looking like a badass but not actually a badass when stuff goes down. Mostly because he's never really had a challenge. Anakin fought in a legit war for a decade before turning dark. Kylo just watched holos of him stomping around looking scary and was like, "got it."

Who was the old guy played by Max Von Sydow? It seems like that might answer some questions.

Im nkt scared of TFA Kylo. Im a little scared for what he may become though. With clarity of mind and purpose and properly trained he could become brutally powerful.

I feel like like TFA Kylo has none of these things. Yet. He is a scared young man second guessing his path and decisions. He is wracked by self doubt and insecurity.

Snoke himself states he hasn't finished his training. Perhaps deliberately as he was waiting for his pupils landmark moment to come. His encounter with Han is possibly that moment. Has Kylo purged himself of doubt and fully committed to the dark side?

Really enjoyed the depth to his character. I brt its similar to how Vader was at first before growing into the dark side and being fully tutored in it.

Ren is a shell of a man ruled entirely by his fear, his eternal fear of inadequacy.

(Re-posting from another thread)

I was pleased - my greatest fear was that it would only be "okay". Of particular note, I thought the character interaction was fabulously good, and this is the heart and soul of Star Wars. The characters are clearly defined, and likeable (or unlikeable, as needed). In particular, I thought Kylo Ren was a great villain, and I liked the meta plot about him being hung up about being as awesome as Vader (because that's the standard the audience is judging him by).

I can understand some complaints about it being a predictable and simplistic plot, but honestly... so were the original trilogy. Star Wars always aimed at being very good middlebrow story.

The emperor is mentioned in A New Hope but never shown as he brougt nothing to the story, same vice should have been used here, create a new mysteri instead of flat out revealing him. There was so many Good jokes

He was going to have a very different role.

It can still be seen in the novelization and radio drama but one original idea for the emperor was that he was just a foolish old man with no idea what was going on.

Of course I'm glad that never happened because Sheev is by far the most fun star wars character around.

Saw it, and rest assured it is amazing. For those that haven't seen it yet, I will tell you that you can throw your expectations out the window. It is nothing like you imagine and that is a great thing. Expect to be suprised, and see the first Star Wars movie since the 80's where you are wondering what Is going to happen next.

After thinking about what went on in the movie, I am beginning to think JJ threw us a few curves. I am pretty sure that the big baddy is nothing like what his hologram actually looks like. Every time we see a powerful sith lord doing sithy things, they are always masked. cowelled or otherwise obscured. I think the CGI of Snoke is deliberately off. It is another mask for the manipulator behind the scenes. I think there is far more subtlety to this movie then folks are giving credit for. I expect the next few movies to build on those odd bits that seem off, until we find out the reason behind them.

The thing about Kylo Ben is that he clearly incrediably powerful when he is focused. He can stop a person dead without much concentration beyond the intial burst and is even capable of freezing a blaster bolt in midair, yet he's so conflicted and unstable that it actually makes him terrifying in a entirely different way to Vader. At least with him you knew that he kept a tap on his fury, Kylo's tempers are just explosive.

Yet on the same token at that duel at the end of the movie he's an absolute emotional wreak, wounded by chewie, hammering on his heart. Forcing himself to kill Rey and Flinn at the moment he was at his absolute lowest, lashing around almost blindly with his lightsaber. It was a very far cry from the really sharp flash displays of ep 1-3, but it showed a more brutal kind of battle in a era where the sith and the Jedi were both gone.

I definately think Snork's CGI pressence is intentional; I think it is a really elebroate cover. I actually think it might ultimately be the holocron of plagus.

Rey's fast force progression is also pretty cool. I know not everyone is satisfied with how it was handled, but the way I see it is that confrontation with the influence power is ultimately what fast tracked her progression. She either failed there or learnt how to be strong.

I still find Flinn being the ultimate red herring interesting. He presents the perspective of a radicalised soldier that decided he didn't want to do this, we have never had a defector appear as one of the good guys in the movies before, and he very much repersents the ordienary man way over his head. Could he be force senstive? Possibly, but highly doubtful. I think his episodes were more based on his stress more then anything else, the lightsaber being the only weapon at hand.

On a unrelated note; I found Leia lacking; her and Han meeting was perfect, but she lacked that fire, that pressence throughout the rest of the movie. Or was it just me?

I thingbshe was played perfectly.

My take is she is war weary and almost a shell of the warrior princess we got to know. She has long ago lost her family and without what she feels is her obligation to fight the F/O she would be totally crushed. I think Kylos presence within/alongside the F/O is her entie purpose.

Maybe Luke's return could reignite a spark now that there is no Han to do so.

I found totally unnecessary the whole Starkiller base things being a rehash of the Death Star and Death Star II sequences.

There is even a trench run, again. There is Han and Chewie getting onto the surface to disable the shields, again.

Captain Phasma disables the shields because... why? I didn't get that.

What planets did they destroy? Was that Coruscant being blown up? Did they really blow up the Senate (and so Coruscant) without the main characters actually feeling much about it?

What is the First Order to start with?

Is it something like the Imperial Remnant, a rival realm that is trying to conquer the Republic?

Or is it just a political/militaristic group within the Republic?

Or is it a cult or terrorist organization? Why isn't that clear?

More importantly... What the heck is the Resistance? If the Republic is there, and the republic has a republic army... why the Resistance exists at all as a separate entity? What is its goal, and why it's not the same of that of the republic? Are they just some kind of A-Team or Leage of Justice kind of group or what?

What was the whole point of the map pieces? Why is R2D2 in low power mode, doing what? Why he has most of the map, and why Luke bothered to put it in different pieces if he didn't want to be found to start with?

This movie has bigger plot holes than any other in the series before...