Epic Question

By Chris Maes, in X-Wing

I have read, re-read and read again, the manuals that come with the "epic" ships and I am not entirely convinced that I know the answer to the question below:

Huge ships have "fore" and "aft" sections, each with their own "Action" icons. Small and Large-based ships each get 1 action (OK... there are some exceptions...); do Huge ships get 1 action for the entire ship, or 1 action per (fore/aft) section? Where do I find the answer to this question in the rules?

One action per section, and the Epic Ships come with their own rule booklets to explain all of the interesting stuff.

It's actually 1 action per ship card, which is an important distinction since not all Huge ships have two cards.

It's actually 1 action per ship card, which is an important distinction since not all Huge ships have two cards.

Never mind my ramblings. I was confused.

Going to go read about rebel transports now.

*Reads*

So wait.

The sections of the rebel transport share a common damage and shielding pool but have separate thematic damage decks?

Oi.

Also the whole transport now also has fewer hull points than the Ghost. Just saying it again, the Ghost is basically half of a corvette that you can use in regular play.

Edited by OneKelvin

Huge Ship Rules - Page 2:

Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards
During the “Perform Action” step, ships with two sections may perform two
actions. The first action must be an action in the fore section’s action bar or
an action from one of the fore section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards. The
second action must be an action in the aft section’s action bar or an action
from one of the aft section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards.

So yes, one action per section from the appropriate actions/upgrade/damage cards of that section.

Found on this page: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/

Huge Ship Rules PDF: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2d/47/2d47a35a-6ec7-4d4b-a262-efacde97dfa3/huge_ship_rules.pdf

Edited by Slugrage

Thanks! I new I read the answer somewhere, just could not find it when I needed it.

Huge Ship Rules - Page 2:

Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards

During the “Perform Action” step, ships with two sections may perform two

actions. The first action must be an action in the fore section’s action bar or

an action from one of the fore section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards. The

second action must be an action in the aft section’s action bar or an action

from one of the aft section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards.

So yes, one action per section from the appropriate actions/upgrade/damage cards of that section.

Found on this page: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/products/x-wing/

Huge Ship Rules PDF: https://images-cdn.fantasyflightgames.com/filer_public/2d/47/2d47a35a-6ec7-4d4b-a262-efacde97dfa3/huge_ship_rules.pdf

Which is confusing because the GR75 does, in fact, have two sections, but can only perform one action...or at least that is how I play it. The relevant rule is phrased ambiguously about the number of sections the GR75 can perform. The paragraph is called 'ships with two cards' but the paragraph itself only talks about 'ships with two sections'.

Importantly, the rules included with the Rebel Transport do not mention multiple actions, so it assumes one action, as per the normal rules. But since the general document containing the huge ship rules is from a later date, it could be considered a more correct version.

So there is a possibility that the GR75 is actually meant to be able to perform 2 actions, but more likely the paragraph with header 'Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards' could be made a bit more clear.

I took it to mean cards and one action for the GR75.

I took it to mean cards and one action for the GR75.

So do I, but the rule "During the “Perform Action” step, ships with two sections may perform two actions," is never explicitly clarified for ships with only one card. It is not made clear that there are exceptions to that rule, so that is probably what should be done.

I'm not sure exactly what is confusing:

"Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards"

(followed by explanation)

The transport does not have 2 ship cards. Therefore, this section, which explains a special rule that changes how actions are normally taken (1 action during the perform action step), does not apply to the rebel transport.

The huge ship rules could definitely use a little polish - everything's a little piecemeal at the moment.

Consolidating the various rulings that are scattered across the Tournament Rulebook, FAQs, Huge Ship Rulebook, and individual rule books for each huge ship would be a good start - perhaps a dedicated Epic FAQ would help too.

Get on the case FFG

The GR75 has two sections.

Huge Ship Rules Page 1

HUGE SHIP SECTIONS
Huge ships count as a single ship consisting of two bases, one ship token,
and one or two Ship cards. The ship token is divided into two halves by the
blue center line. The front base and the front half of the ship token comprise
the fore section. The rear base and the rear half of the ship token comprise
the aft section.

The other portion just clarifies which section is allowed to perform which action in the event that the ship has two ship cards.

Here I was expecting that this question would immensely powerful, deeply profound,and the likes of which may never be seen again.

Turns out it's just about huge ships. What a let down.

Here I was expecting that this question would immensely powerful, deeply profound,and the likes of which may never be seen again.

Turns out it's just about huge ships. What a let down.

Sorry. As rules issues go, this is a pretty boring one. There's hardly a question about what is meant here, just how valid the wrong interpretation is.

I'm not sure exactly what is confusing:

"Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards"

(followed by explanation)

The transport does not have 2 ship cards. Therefore, this section, which explains a special rule that changes how actions are normally taken (1 action during the perform action step), does not apply to the rebel transport.

Let me put it this way: if there was a paragraph titled 'Missile and torpedo upgrades' and the first sentence read: 'Secondary weapons have to be discarded when used for an attack,' then it would be ambiguous if only missiles and torpedoes or all secondary weapons have to be discarded.

In an abstract sense, the title says 'X1' (or a subset of X) and the first sentence says 'All X are Y'. This does not make it clear that only the subset of X is Y.

Here I was expecting that this question would immensely powerful, deeply profound,and the likes of which may never be seen again.

Turns out it's just about huge ships. What a let down.

Sorry. As rules issues go, this is a pretty boring one. There's hardly a question about what is meant here, just how valid the wrong interpretation is.

I'm not sure exactly what is confusing:

"Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards"

(followed by explanation)

The transport does not have 2 ship cards. Therefore, this section, which explains a special rule that changes how actions are normally taken (1 action during the perform action step), does not apply to the rebel transport.

Let me put it this way: if there was a paragraph titled 'Missile and torpedo upgrades' and the first sentence read: 'Secondary weapons have to be discarded when used for an attack,' then it would be ambiguous if only missiles and torpedoes or all secondary weapons have to be discarded.

In an abstract sense, the title says 'X1' (or a subset of X) and the first sentence says 'All X are Y'. This does not make it clear that only the subset of X is Y.

The actual explanation in the following text is:

"During the “Perform Action” step, ships with two sections may perform two actions.": fair enough, that could be confusing.
"The first action must be an action in the fore section’s action bar or an action from one of the fore section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards." : The fore section of the transport does not have actions. All actions are actually printed on the aft section covering the rear of the ship's base, so that settles that point. Next you have the upgrade cards, which can't really be pinned on either fore or back section, because you only have 1 ship card. An argument could be made about damage cards since they actually originate from a section, but they are also assigned to that ship's card, which does not specify fore of aft.
"The second action must be an action in the aft section’s action bar or an action from one of the aft section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards." basically the same argument as above.
While there might be some ambiguities, the sheer level of things that don't hold together for the transport, a ship with only one ship card, really seems to imply that this section does not apply. I would definitly be the first one to petition that the huge ship rules need to be updated (thoroughly), but in an epic game, I'd be hard pressed to justify 2 actions on a transport (without the new incoming upgrade card, which it too, generates its own controversies).

Here I was expecting that this question would immensely powerful, deeply profound,and the likes of which may never be seen again.

Turns out it's just about huge ships. What a let down.

Sorry. As rules issues go, this is a pretty boring one. There's hardly a question about what is meant here, just how valid the wrong interpretation is.

I'm not sure exactly what is confusing:

"Performing Actions from a Ship with Two Ship Cards"

(followed by explanation)

The transport does not have 2 ship cards. Therefore, this section, which explains a special rule that changes how actions are normally taken (1 action during the perform action step), does not apply to the rebel transport.

Let me put it this way: if there was a paragraph titled 'Missile and torpedo upgrades' and the first sentence read: 'Secondary weapons have to be discarded when used for an attack,' then it would be ambiguous if only missiles and torpedoes or all secondary weapons have to be discarded.

In an abstract sense, the title says 'X1' (or a subset of X) and the first sentence says 'All X are Y'. This does not make it clear that only the subset of X is Y.

The actual explanation in the following text is:

"During the “Perform Action” step, ships with two sections may perform two actions.": fair enough, that could be confusing.

"The first action must be an action in the fore section’s action bar or an action from one of the fore section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards." : The fore section of the transport does not have actions. All actions are actually printed on the aft section covering the rear of the ship's base, so that settles that point. Next you have the upgrade cards, which can't really be pinned on either fore or back section, because you only have 1 ship card. An argument could be made about damage cards since they actually originate from a section, but they are also assigned to that ship's card, which does not specify fore of aft.

"The second action must be an action in the aft section’s action bar or an action from one of the aft section’s Upgrade cards or Damage cards." basically the same argument as above.

While there might be some ambiguities, the sheer level of things that don't hold together for the transport, a ship with only one ship card, really seems to imply that this section does not apply. I would definitly be the first one to petition that the huge ship rules need to be updated (thoroughly), but in an epic game, I'd be hard pressed to justify 2 actions on a transport (without the new incoming upgrade card, which it too, generates its own controversies).