Haven't spotted this elsewhere so sorry if someone already pointed it out, the new PS8 Bomber pilot coming in the Imperial Veterans set has the following ability:

Once per round, after you discard a Pilot Talent upgrade card, flip that card face up.

Am I to assume then that as this is an immediate effect you could reuse the card straight away? Of course if you do so it's not coming back again for the rest of the game but there may be situations where doing a double crackshot would be significantly advantageous.

Is there any reason anyone thinks that this won't work?

You can only activate a card once per opportunity. That's directly in the rules. So no, it won't work.

But, with Cluster Missiles, you could Crack Shot each of the two attacks.

Crack Shot might work that way, since it doesn't have a timing trigger that would put it under the once per opportunity rule. It also might be FAQ'd.

Edit: on further reflection, I disagree with the me of a couple hours ago. Comparing the wording of Crack Shot with Lone Wolf, it appears that "when attacking" is specific enough to fall under "once per opportunity" after all.

You can only activate a card once per opportunity. That's directly in the rules. So no, it won't work.

Interesting theory, however I would be inclined to say that rather than activating the same card twice, this would be far more like hypothetically having 2 crackshots on 1 pilot and being able to use them both at the appropriate time.

After discarding the first time, the flipped up card is "new" and should be able to be used accordingly I would think.

Either way this seems like a potent enough combo that FFG will likely have to make a ruling on it a some point.

Its much more useful to Crack Shot once per turn every turn than to do it twice in one.

Its much more useful to Crack Shot once per turn every turn than to do it twice in one.

whilst I agree in most situations, in the event of shooting at your opponents last ship on the board and if double cracking would kill it I most certainly think it would be worth it rather than having to wait another turn and have the potential for them to shoot back etc.

Also if you get a lucky shot on Soontir early in the game and it would kill him if you double cracked I could see it being used aggressively early.

Theres enough potential situations for this to be relevant I suspect, and allowing Bren the opportunity to be able to do this would add to his playability

EDIT: Never mind me.

What's to stop you is that the pilot ability that is letting you recycle the EPT is limited to once per round.

What's to stop you is that the pilot ability that is letting you recycle the EPT is limited to once per round.

Yes indeed you are correct:

Compare results step:

Activate Crackshot, discard crackshot.

Bren flips Crackhot back immediately.

Activate crackshot, discard crackshot.

So yes your right is Bren's ability does only trigger once per round but this does not stop you using crackshot twice, all that happens at this point is that Bren wont be able to flip the crackshot up again for the rest of the game (as I stated in the original post)

if it means you can kill your last opponents ship now rather than leaving it on 1 HP it certainly seems like a great effect.

Edit:

in reference to the term "When attacking" as far as I know your ship is deemed to be attacking through all 7 steps of combat, at no point are you not attacking until damage is actually dealt at which point the active ship is no longer attacking, well after you get the phase in which you may use crackshot(s).

Second edit:

to preface any future comments about "once per opportunity" Crackshot is not a triggered effect, it is an effect that you may use within the appropriate timing window.

There's no such thing as an "Activated" ability in this game. Everything's either passive or triggered.

Ergo, Once per opportunity does prevent using Crackshot twice in one attack, but would allow twice in a round for Cluster Missiles.

There's no such thing as an "Activated" ability in this game. Everything's either passive or triggered.

Ergo, Once per opportunity does prevent using Crackshot twice in one attack, but would allow twice in a round for Cluster Missiles.

Fair comments.

I think I may have been playing MTG too long, when there's a clear contextual difference between a event triggered effect and an optionally activated effect it really feels as though they should be treated differently in this game.

You'd only get one use of Crackshot. Even with Tomax flipping it back up, you can't use again during the same attack. It actually would fall under the once per opportunity rule.

Card Abilities, Page 8

A card ability cannot be resolved more than once during the timing specified on the card. For example, a card with the timing of “when defending” cannot be resolved twice by the defender during a single attack.

You can only activate a card once per opportunity. That's directly in the rules. So no, it won't work.

Interesting theory, however I would be inclined to say that rather than activating the same card twice, this would be far more like hypothetically having 2 crackshots on 1 pilot and being able to use them both at the appropriate time.

After discarding the first time, the flipped up card is "new" and should be able to be used accordingly I would think.

I get what you're saying, but there isn't any precedent for this being a rule in X-wing. It's common in games where cards have in-play and out-of-play states, but that doesn't mean it's universal.

Here's what the rules reference says about discarding upgrades:

When an Upgrade card is discarded, it is flipped facedown. The card is out of play for all purposes except when determining the total squad point cost of the ship to which it was equipped. If an Upgrade card is flipped faceup by a game effect, it returns to play equipped to the same ship.

I think the fact that the card "remembers" where it was equipped makes it more difficult to claim that the game mechanics should treat it as a new copy of the card.

You'd only get one use of Crackshot. Even with Tomax flipping it back up, you can't use again during the same attack. It actually would fall under the once per opportunity rule.

Card Abilities, Page 8

A card ability cannot be resolved more than once during the timing specified on the card. For example, a card with the timing of “when defending” cannot be resolved twice by the defender during a single attack.

But that's not what Mace is trying to achieve with Tomax. He's looking to nullify two evades during the one attack.

You could indeed use Crackshot on the first attack of Cluster Missiles or TLT, then have Tomax flip it in order to use it again on the second attack. But it cannot be used twice on the SAME attack.

Definitely can not negate two evades per one attack.

Definitely can be used twice, if you have a second attack that round.

Pretty simple to clarify.

Ahh. Got lost in the thread. Agreed - you can flip it back over but could not use it again until the next attack.

I think the main point is, as Pandademic more eloquently pointed out, is that once you discard the crackshot, up till this point in the game the upgrade is out of the game for everything but the points tally up at the end. Now we have an ability that flips something back up and the fundamental question is whether the game treats the upgrade as the same old entity still or an entirely new entity (in which case it has not been used yet and can use it's "once per opportunity" and can be activated)

Are you using the same upgrade twice (i.e. the game recognizes its the same object that was discarded), or in the games eyes 2 different items (which in theory could be both used).

Are you using the same upgrade twice (i.e. the game recognizes its the same object that was discarded), or in the games eyes 2 different items (which in theory could be both used).

I think the same logic was behind the decision to make Tactician a 'limited' card. Multiple copies of Tactician make it too powerful.

I think the game-state of the Crack Shot card once it is flipped faceup, doesn't make it a new entity at all. Trying to use it again is not a new opportunity as the card's trigger is "When attacking..." and you are still in the same attack, in the same Modify Defence dice step.

Its much more useful to Crack Shot once per turn every turn than to do it twice in one.

If it means taking Fel off the table though? Why let him linger about? .

Are you using the same upgrade twice (i.e. the game recognizes its the same object that was discarded), or in the games eyes 2 different items (which in theory could be both used).

I'm not sure it will matter.

The FAQ has a ruling that prevents one ship using multiple copies of an Action: upgrade card, on the basis that you are performing the same action twice and thus violating that rule. I can see similar logic being applied here: you have used an instance of Crack Shot this attack, therefore you can't use another without breaking Once per Opportunity no matter how or when you got it.

But Crack Shot is not an action, and the FAQ allso has this to say about multiple of the same card:

Q: If a ship has more than one copy of the same card that does not require an action to trigger its ability, can it trigger all of those card abilities?

A: Yes. For example, when a ship equipped with two Mercenary Copilots is attacking, it can change two [hit] results to two [crit] results.

So IF turning it face up again would count as a new card, it would be able to use it twice. Its a big "if" though...

At no point is it stated that is it s a new card.

There is no need to read more into it.

At no point is it stated that is it s a new card.

There is no need to read more into it.

And at no point in the game up until now has there been the ability to get back a discarded card, so there is zero precedence as to whether it is treated as the same object that remembers what it did previously this turn or not.

There is no need to be so dismissive of this query.

Its much more useful to Crack Shot once per turn every turn than to do it twice in one.

That's my Plan!