I finally had the chance to play with a combo I've been wanting to try for awhile. Using Jan Ors and Gallant Haven to make my squadrons annoyingly difficult to kill, while using Projector Experts to help keep Gallant Haven alive as long as possible. It worked out pretty well. The fleet list and battle reports are on my blog:

Great writeup! These tank-heavy lists make our local Imperials nervous. The first game surprised me, why would the Imperial try and conga-line ISDs? Was the front one hurting enough that they were just sacrificing it to obstruct shots?

Found GH worthless as a rhymer ball can stay at range and bomb the crap out of the frigate or force the ships to come out and play

Great writeup! These tank-heavy lists make our local Imperials nervous. The first game surprised me, why would the Imperial try and conga-line ISDs? Was the front one hurting enough that they were just sacrificing it to obstruct shots?

He rushed the first one in to try and surprise me, but made a mistake and didn't leave room for the second one and got a little stuck behind himself.

Found GH worthless as a rhymer ball can stay at range and bomb the crap out of the frigate or force the ships to come out and play

100% this observation.

I'm hoping to try out a GH list tomorrow night. I'm quite excited.

Hadn't thought about the projection experts, much less on an MC-80 (my go-to is a Neb or two), so that's quite intriguing!

Found GH worthless as a rhymer ball can stay at range and bomb the crap out of the frigate or force the ships to come out and play

100% this observation.

These pronouncements make me curious. I can see this in Wave I, where GH worked up until the point when squadrons became engaged, then it didn't because the AFII either had to slow down to stay around the tied-up squadrons (telegraph, telegraph...), or had to boogie out of town, leaving the squadrons behind (and wasting 8 points). But I'm failing to see the problem in Wave II.

Worst-case scenario: an ISD I with Expanded Hangers, Boosted Coms, and a Squadron Token activates Rhymer and five Firesprays, which proceed to vomit 11 dice at the Gallant Haven from medium range (1 black, 10 blues). On average rolls, Gallant takes 6 damage (1.0 average from Rhymer, 0.75 x2 per Firespray). Maybe Gallant also takes long-range fire from the ISD (up to 5 dice if it has Slaved Turrets, otherwise 4), for another 2.25-3.0 damage on average, although if the ISD is using Rhymer and Boosted Comms to stretch its range (which would be the optimal play), this is extremely unlikely. Gallant takes shield damage and probably some hits to the hull (though if the ISD is out of range, maybe not because of a useable evade, brace, and redirect, all of which can be used against the Rhymerball at medium range).

So now, supposedly, Gallant has to either take punishment from the Rhymerball, or its squadrons have to come out and play.

Except it actually doesn't have to settle for either. Not because of Gallant Haven, but because of Intel.

Medium range is long, sure, but it's basically the same as distance 3 (and shorter than distance 3 + distance 1 range for squadrons), so any Rhymer ball squadron that can engage the Gallant Haven can be attacked by any squadron deployed within distance 1 between the Gallant Haven and the Rhymer ball, and basically any speed 3+ squadron deployed anywhere within distance 1 of Gallant Haven, including behind it. So if the Rhymer ball is in range to attack Gallant, all squadrons within Distance 1 of Gallant--except perhaps a trailing B-wing--are in range to retaliate.

The squadron cloud with Jan has Intel, so it can move from its current position into the Rhymer ball.

The Gallant Haven can move up to speed 3. Which is beyond medium range. Meaning it can move to reassume its position at distance 1 of the squadrons it has now unleashed on the Rhymerball. After it releases its own anti-squadron barrage, of course. Because it's at medium range of the Rhymerball. If the ISD was stretching its reach, it might even have two anti-squadron shots, depending on its angle of approach vis-a-vis the Rhymer ball.

When the Rhymer ball activates, it will be engaged by squadrons, which means unless it has Intel itself, it has to attack those squadrons. Which have the benefit of Gallant Haven. And Jan. And last turn's shooting at the Rhymer ball.

When the Gallant activates, it can order its squadrons to tear into the Rhymer ball again. Or it can tell them to attack the ISD. Because, you know, its squadrons have Intel. Or both. Because if you're running Gallant, why not have 8-12 squadrons available? Then Gallant anti-squads the Rhymerball again. Then it moves on, at speed 3.

I found Gallant sub-optimal in Wave I. But I think any ship (or Rhymerball) surrounded by an Intel cloud will find itself in a sub-optimal position in Wave II.

Intel's the game changer here. Gallant Haven + Jan just allows you to get tons more mileage out of it...

I can see why Gallant may not play to everyone's playstyle. But calling it worthless against a Rhymerball seems a bit premature, at least to me. Just my opinion.

I tried Gallant Haven again. Hmm. You gotta really care only about 1 ship and 1 area. Not my playstyle. I feel like you're giving up a moderate amount for it.

Wow, well said Rythbryt.

Something else to note, Distance 1 + a squadron base + Distance 1 is about 1/8" less than medium range. There isn't a lot of space to put a Rhymer boosted squadron where it's safe from a GH boosted squadron.

Really, the Ryhmer ball is a good strategy and has its counters like anything else. Gallant Haven is not a counter to Ryhmer anymore than Ryhmer makes it worthless.

I pretty much never played GH in Wave 1 either, but the interactions with Jan, Intel, and Projector Experts was too interesting to not at least try out. Please let us know how it works out for you.

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Something else to note, Distance 1 + a squadron base + Distance 1 is about 1/8" less than medium range. There isn't a lot of space to put a Rhymer boosted squadron where it's safe from a GH boosted squadron.

Really, the Ryhmer ball is a good strategy and has its counters like anything else. Gallant Haven is not a counter to Ryhmer anymore than Ryhmer makes it worthless.

I pretty much never played GH in Wave 1 either, but the interactions with Jan, Intel, and Projector Experts was too interesting to not at least try out. Please let us know how it works out for you.

Nice! I was trying to guestimate it without having the rulers handy. That's even more margin for error than I thought there was.

I think I've settled on this list for tomorrow, so I'll fill you in on how it goes. Sounds like my brother's planning to bring an ISD and lots of Glads, and only 3-4 TIE fighters, so it should be exciting.

The Fireball also has Intel...

The Fireball also has Intel...

Which is an amazing upgrade for Rhymer in general. He was too easy to lock down with an A-Wing or two before. Intel means you need the firepower to actually kill the Rhymerball to deal with it now, while the Firespray ups the firepower it dishes out.

I've been curious if some of the Wave 2 stuff like Jan would help with Gallant Haven's weaknesses. So far, it looks promising. Jan synergizes well with GH and Intel helps keep the squadrons free to stay with its effects if they want to. To get the most out of GH you often have to close with your opponent, which is where Projector Experts seem to help with durability.

While you may not be too impressed with the title I would be curious to know how you'd go about using it currently?

I'm not sure how he is coming up with the math that a firespray average damage is .5 x 2? Since a FS is a bomber and a blue die has a 75% chance to hit the average damage would be 1.5, no? Certainly seems closer to 1.5 when I play with them...

I'm not sure how he is coming up with the math that a firespray average damage is .5 x 2? Since a FS is a bomber and a blue die has a 75% chance to hit the average damage would be 1.5, no? Certainly seems closer to 1.5 when I play with them...

My bad. It's 1.5, not 1.0. Obviously too late for math for me...

I think peeps expect too much from Gallant Haven. It is only 8 points after all. If you manage to get a squadron combat within range of it for 1 or 2 rounds, that's half a dozen or more hp saved. That can be enough to swing a squadron battle from a loss to a win. Or it can force your opponent to send squadrons elsewhere - tactically that can be an advantage.

Like most other upgrades in the game, deciding when to keep squadrons within it's envelope and when to move out - when to dive the ship itself into a furball to assist squadrons and when not to is the important part.

I think galant Haven is a bust due to the distance of one. Anyone having this issue. Especially, when you move your ship. The cost seems ridiculous like so many cards. Every card could be useful if priced right. But heck, what you I know.

I always want to use. It sounds fun than I think about the practibility and realize the AF has not good titles IMHO which is a bummer.

The Fireball also has Intel...

Which is an amazing upgrade for Rhymer in general. He was too easy to lock down with an A-Wing or two before. Intel means you need the firepower to actually kill the Rhymerball to deal with it now, while the Firespray ups the firepower it dishes out.

I've been curious if some of the Wave 2 stuff like Jan would help with Gallant Haven's weaknesses. So far, it looks promising. Jan synergizes well with GH and Intel helps keep the squadrons free to stay with its effects if they want to. To get the most out of GH you often have to close with your opponent, which is where Projector Experts seem to help with durability.

While you may not be too impressed with the title I would be curious to know how you'd go about using it currently?

I wouldn't, because it's 8 points in my list for a conditional card that I have to play around.

Now, if it was borderline OP at medium range like Rhymer, it would be another story

GH depends a lot on how you play your squadrons. I've used it with great success even against a Rhymerball - I can still strike out at range but if I keep things close, they're MUCH hardier. 2 X-Wing/2 B-Wings against 4 TIE bombers + 4 TIE Advanced and I only lost one (absolute crummy friggin rolls....).