not so certain about the whole ease of entry thing

while the auto-include upgrade spam (namely on essential titles or refits) is getting out of hand for new players, it is also fixing ships that would otherwise be pretty crap

plus, FFG released the Force Awakens Core as a very good starting off point, and is soon launching the individual expacs with all you need to effectively field the respective ships

you can't get a purely competitive T-70 without r2-d2 or PTL, I guess, but you get integrated and that's solid enough

the Tie/FOs, however, come out their individual expacs as competitive as possible (lacking perhaps only PTL for the Omegas, though Leader could always rock the Juke + Relay)

not to mention there are still a few expacs that are actually (viably) playable right out the box,

Tie Fighter

B-wing

Z-95

Phantom (yeah yeah, V.I)

Special K
K-wing
Hound's tooth

I can understand how spreading out all the fixes would be confusing and frustrating as hell (assuming people don't just buy the fixed set ala Imp Vets or Reb Aces, or if they don't know what proxying means), but I doubt it's anything significant enough to heavily discourage new players

A secondary thing is also how tricksy it is to actually build your upgrade collection - which is probably a bigger stumbling block than the list building.

As Darius says, X-Wing is probably the easiest list building game out there. The number of 'units' is small, with discrete upgrades with straight forward applications. I'm finding Armada much tougher going in terms of working out what pairs well with what. NetRunner was even harder* than that. Especially if you're talking to an experienced gamer, telling them that X goes with Y isn't usually the complicated part - telling them where to get the card is!

* not hard necessarily... just in terms of the sheer number and variety of things to combine.

Yeah it's clearly only the new waves. It's not like they would give an A-Wing pilot the ability to ignore stress and still take an action...

Oh, wait. Awkward...

Perhaps the sky isn't falling.

It's more of a quantity thing than a quality thing. It's natural, it was always going to happen as they released more new toys with more options and fixes for the old ships. Part of the trouble is that the old ships are so iconic, people getting into the game will want those first and (usually) expect them to be at a decent level out of the box (which was part of the system's selling point, after all).

I also don't think it's that much of an issue - the game's stuff fun, I want the new toys and upgrades and everything so it's not like it puts me off.

I actually think it's becoming the opposite - where the effort and knowledge to know the options available are making the game harder and harder to enter.

Some have actually said this. I wish there was a go to list for the right upgrade with which pilots. As soon as you say the word 'Auto-Include' people start debating and saying there is no such thing. But if you ask would you ever take an Interceptor without Autothrusters 99.99% say never fly an Interceptor without Autothrusters...

.

Uttering the word "auto-include" is apparently considered an insult and an attack against the established believe of "having the free choice" in listbuilding in any Tabletop-system. Of course, fans of said system have to rush in to defend it's integrity - to prevent it from acquirung the same bad reputation the spawns of Nottingham have created.

It's just teasing a very sore and exposed nerv, hence the reaction...

I'm not sure i'd agree with the net decking recommendation. A lot of these combos while seen as net decking are really logical conclusions.

Interceptors with PTL (before autothrusters, did you ever see non alphas without this?) and the new ubiquitous autothrusters are hardly huge jumps.

Back when I started, I thought I was SO clever thinking 7 TIE's and a runner or 8 ties was a great list, as well as 4 y-wings with ions (I would have lost my mind over TLT's!)

Vader>ATC>PRED>EU spotting for Vessery? Obvious choice, didn't need someone on the net/this board to tell me that.

Brobots are a netlist in their selves, because you will almost always take the two.

Putting palp on a naked shuttle and running 2 aces? Not a stretch.

3PO on a Falcon? my friend does this and doesn't even read about x-wing, know all the card combos.

When you say 'didn't need someone to tell you that' or 'not a stretch' I can say from experience that many had no idea these are good combos.

I never thought of Pred on Vader until I saw it here. Sure it makes sense now. I was debating a higher pilot skill on the Shuttle for carrying Palp because I wanted it to be a bit more defensive or adding another shield. Obviously not the case.

What is obvious for someone who plays often isn't so obvious if you play occasionally like me.

So the real problem is that I just don't play often enough

not so certain about the whole ease of entry thing

while the auto-include upgrade spam (namely on essential titles or refits) is getting out of hand for new players, it is also fixing ships that would otherwise be pretty crap

I almost agree with you FGD and maybe I'm just arguing over terms, sorry don't mean to. But there is a lot of grey between doesn't see as much play as other ships and ships 'crap'. But be sure the TIE Adv. was terrible.

But otherwise you're right. auto-include upgrades are often necessary fixed to 'balance' the different ships. But people don't seems to care or 'situational' ships either.

Honestly Acewing and the two ship meta that preceded it is easy to enter. You buy 2-3 ships and a few extra for upgrades/ebay the cards and there is your list.

I don't play enough either.

I'm not having a game a night. That's not enough.

The beautiful thing about X-Wing is that it can be both a "beer and pretzels" game for some and an excellent tournament game for others. The game will go where you want it to depending on you and the people you play against. There are enough nuances that for competitive players you are looking at a myriad amount of options. At the same time casual players can utilize certain tactics that feel "dumbed down" to others. X-Wing isn't perfect but it is also balanced really well and most importantly it is what you make it.

no, we all know the real name of the game is TIE Defender: The Miniatures Game

Now can we stop saying the sky is falling and go back to praising our lord and savior the Defender??

Nonsense, it's TIE Fighter: The Miniatures Game, with Maarek Stele in a Defender as the protagonist

no, we all know the real name of the game is TIE Defender: The Miniatures Game

Now can we stop saying the sky is falling and go back to praising our lord and savior the Defender??

Nonsense, it's TIE Fighter: The Miniatures Game, with Maarek Stele in a Defender as the protagonist

Well, if we're going there, it's really called TLT: The Miniatures Game. Lol.

the above is actually a great point about the new Hera (crew) that people did overlook

Hera lets you use every maneuver on the ghost's expansive dial without consequence...as long as you're happy with never performing an action again

which you can be, as FCS + Ezra give you re-rolls + "focus" even while stressed, but 16 health and 0 agi goes down fast and it's only really viable as a semi-cheap (43 points) railgun, instead of a super-boost fat ship

Think it's also great as an ultra-blocker with chop, autoblaster, zeb crew, APL and AC/ES. You could even switch APL with Ion projector for maximum annoyance. It doesn't really have to do anything as long as it drives your opponent bloody bonkers.

A long time ago, in the mythical time known as the early 90s. There was a game called x-wing commander.

They took the x out of it, and wing commander was good, but x-wing was better.

One of the best things about X-wing is how simple it is. As someone who'd just left 40k, not having to read a 300 page manual full of special rules, caveats and new versions every few years, X-wing was a breath of fresh air.

The fact X-wing can be both 'Beer and Pretzels' and a well-balanced competitive game is a testament to the great job FFG have done with it.

I Came from 40k when X-Wing started, and my reason to stick with X-Wing was that i just was sick of GW and their whole policies (prices, how they treat customers and retailers, etc.)

And i was sick of painting. i always accepted it as a part of the hobby, and i was not even so bad at it, but when i bought stuff and first needed to assemble and paint it to actually play it... nah!

The only reason to get back at painting would be if they brought out Rogue Squadron pilot cards (from the "Legends" book series) without bringing out all of the Paintjobs. Be assured that no matter how bad the X-Wing T-65 would play, i would **** sure buy and paint one ship for each member they would bring out!

But then if they brought out the Rogues, surely with an X-Wing/E-Wing Aces Pack (which just got more likely with the imperial one they just announced) they probably would include the other 3/4 of the X-Wing fix with it besides IA.