So, now that the Flame of the West announcement seems inevitable, unless the announcement team has already gone on holiday, what do you think the heroes will be? I think we are going to see at least one in the announcement, though it was not so last time if I remember correctly.

Additionally, what are your guesses about the second hero in the Grey Havens? I feel the safe bet is Noldor: Khazad, Heirs, Voice, Realm, they all had two heroes of the same trait, belonging to the area. But how about the sphere? Well, it is not going to be Spirit and it will most likely not be Leadership because it was already announced we are getting a Leadership hero in the first pack, and also Leadership doesn't feel right for Noldor, though they do have Elrohir hero and Galadriel ally, together with the Scout of Imladris, I believe. My personal guess is then Tactics rather than Lore because we have recently got Erestor, and it would be great to see another Tactics Elf. After all, Elven Spear falls into the category, and there is a picture of Revealed in Wrath which is clearly a Noldor (Glorfindel) theme card.

Flame of the west is Return of the King part 1, right?

I don't know for that, but I bet my money that in the last Saga box we will have Tactics Eowyn.

Saruman.

Tactics Imrahil

The tradition throughout deluxe expansions since Khazad-dum has been to include a tactics hero. Aside from Glorfindel I don't know that there are many named Noldor characters in middle earth at this period that would naturally fall into a tactic role. I don't believe it will be Glorfindel because an allied version of him has already been spoiled for the cycle. Though all this is only precedent and may not mean anything.

Personally I believe that Ecthelion of the fountain would be about as great as a suggestion as possible. Tolkien fans know elves after death exist in limbo at Mandos until the end of times. Unless said elf soloed a Balrog. In what Tolkien finished this refers to Glorfindel and Ecthelion. There is some debate on the subject of Glorfindel of Gondolin being the same as Glorfindel of Imladris. I believe the general consensus is that they are the same. Gandalf himself and his transition from Grey to White provides some precedence for this. As he hints at his experiences of returning from the dead after soloing a Balrog.

Well, I don't know whether the creators have the licensing and feel licensed to follow this precedent and create an Ecthelion Hero. A proven warrior sent back to middle-earth to oppose Sauron. I think players would be excited though as a personage in somewhat equal stature with the likes of Glorfindel and Gandalf and perhaps moreso as Gothmog was captain of the seven and known to be responsible for all sorts of horrible acts in his time. The timing seems propitious as the developers seem set on exploring the liminal aspects of middle-earth and traveling Westward, the direction of the blessed realm. But who can say?

Looking trough the chapters of Rotk Part 1 some events are prety eyecatching:
1. The Grey Company moves ​through the paths of the dead.

2. The Siege of Minas Tirith

3. The Ride of the Rohirim and the battle on the fields of the Pelenor

4. The "Aftermath" of the Battle (Houses of Healing, Denethor's death etc.)

5. The march to the Black Gate and ist opening.

Frodo and Sam only appear in the second part, so I think it's safe to say there wont be anything about their side of the story.

So far all Saga-heroes had a part to Play in the story of the Expansion (Hobbits in Black Riders, Gandalf in road darkens etc.). It doesn't seem to matter all that much if a character already has a hero incarnation (Théoden), ally incarnation (Treebeard, Gandalf) or didn't appear before (Sam, Pippin etc.), so I wouldn't try to guess based on existing characters (maybe except for Aragorn; there is only the Spirit and ally Version left and I am not sure there will ever be every possible Aragorn Version).

So which characters are iconic/important for the above mentioned Events?

-the hunter trio: Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas

-the Grey Company members: Halbarad, Elrond's sons

- Gandalf and Pippin

- Eowyn and Merry

-Théoden and Eomer

-Beregond and Bergil

-Denethor and Faramir

(These are all I can remember and would give the important "Keyword" )

So who can we kick out of this? (=VERY unlikely imo)

Halbarad -> Just became a hero in lost realm

Elrond's sons -> they don't have that big of a role and I don't think there is a way to make them thematic heroes in a diffrent way than the one they already exist

Gandalf -> I wouldn't like a "sphere Gandalf" and an other neutral hero Gandalf is very unlikely.

Merry -> A tactics Version of him would be great for this Expansion. Oh wait...

Théoden -> We have him as a fighter (tatics) and as the leader of the rohirim (Spirit). What else could you do with this character?

Bergil -> Just a kid

The rest of the pack could be possible in my opinion, even though some more than others. My guess:

Aragorn : He will be a hero in this box. But he will be the Fellowship hero (as he is more important than Legolas/Gimli and is the only left main character who goes through the paths of the dead)

Legolas/Gimli : These two have more or less the same chances. They could be a possibility or get split one in this the other in the next, but there are better guesses as I only see a Leadership version of them.

Pippin: Had his Spirit form way before Merry, but he could show us how good of a tactics hero he would proof in the siege of the White City. He would be one of my final guesses if not for two or three other characters. I also believe we will stay with one tactics hobbir hero forever.

Beregond : Woudn't be to surprised if we get him, but what other role than a super Defender could he fill?

Eowyn ​: Here we go​. I will bet on her tactics inarnation. There is just no better moment to introduce this than this battle. The death of the witch-king deserves a hero to replay it again and again. Extra Points: This is the only part of the books where Eowyn fights (she is wounded and can't participate in the battle at the black gate)

Eomer: An other of my favorite guesses. his would be his Leadership Version, but this might be even better for the last Expansion, after Théoden is dead, I don't know and Théoden dies "during" this box. Overall I think Eowyn is the safer bet and two Rohan heroes in Gondor's greatest battle? Would be strange, but on the other Hand Rohan pretty much saves the City at the last moment.

Faramir : He could become a tactics hero, but is wounded for most of the remaining storyline, but still possible.

Denethor: I would put him above Eomer. We only have his lore hero and a pretty old Leadership ally. So a Spirit or Leadership hero does seem to fit the Expansion quite well. I would imagine a "drawback hero" like Grima or Spiritfindel. Maybe he could boost our allies, just to become mad and make them flee (=Shuffle into deck/discard them)? Or he could have very strong stats which unstopable go down every round until he kills himself (showing how the once strong leader gets mad and suicides)? I think you could do cool Things with him.

To the conclusion:

1. Aragorn (Fellowship)

2. Eowyn (Tactics)

3. Denethor ( Spirit /Leadership)

This Trio has one of the great heroes of the story (Aragorn) who can participate in every quest of the box as he takes part in every Event in the first part of the book. Eowyn kills the witch-king and is an iconic character, there won't be a better moment to publish a tactics verson of her (now or never). Finally Denethor (I prefer a Spirit Version, but Leadership is an Option) doesn't do all that much in the books (or movie ), but I would put him on the same Level of relevenz as treebeard (and he became a hero too). This way we have "1 of everything": Aragorn from the first book/the Fellowship, Eowyn second book/Rohan and Denethor third book/Gondor. This would represent the "teameffort" it took to hold Minas Tirith.

Gandalf unlikely?

For me it would be the perfect time for us to see the might Gandalf the White!

very excited about that

Flame of the west is Return of the King part 1, right?

I don't know for that, but I bet my money that in the last Saga box we will have Tactics Eowyn.

Yes, FotW is saga no. 5.

As much as it makes sense to include her, there are some indications that make me think otherwise: the fact she is in the core set, and the designers might prefer to give those who only follow saga a new hero, and also (to a much lesser degree) Herugrim that helps Rohan heroes gain attack strength through willpower.

Saruman.

Or John the Troll?

Looking trough the chapters of Rotk Part 1 some events are prety eyecatching:

1. The Grey Company moves ​through the paths of the dead.

2. The Siege of Minas Tirith

3. The Ride of the Rohirim and the battle on the fields of the Pelenor

4. The "Aftermath" of the Battle (Houses of Healing, Denethor's death etc.)

5. The march to the Black Gate and ist opening.

Frodo and Sam only appear in the second part, so I think it's safe to say there wont be anything about their side of the story.

So far all Saga-heroes had a part to Play in the story of the Expansion (Hobbits in Black Riders, Gandalf in road darkens etc.). It doesn't seem to matter all that much if a character already has a hero incarnation (Théoden), ally incarnation (Treebeard, Gandalf) or didn't appear before (Sam, Pippin etc.), so I wouldn't try to guess based on existing characters (maybe except for Aragorn; there is only the Spirit and ally Version left and I am not sure there will ever be every possible Aragorn Version).

So which characters are iconic/important for the above mentioned Events?

-the hunter trio: Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas

-the Grey Company members: Halbarad, Elrond's sons

- Gandalf and Pippin

- Eowyn and Merry

-Théoden and Eomer

-Beregond and Bergil

-Denethor and Faramir

(These are all I can remember and would give the important "Keyword" )

So who can we kick out of this? (=VERY unlikely imo)

Halbarad -> Just became a hero in lost realm

Elrond's sons -> they don't have that big of a role and I don't think there is a way to make them thematic heroes in a diffrent way than the one they already exist

Gandalf -> I wouldn't like a "sphere Gandalf" and an other neutral hero Gandalf is very unlikely.

Merry -> A tactics Version of him would be great for this Expansion. Oh wait...

Théoden -> We have him as a fighter (tatics) and as the leader of the rohirim (Spirit). What else could you do with this character?

Bergil -> Just a kid

The rest of the pack could be possible in my opinion, even though some more than others. My guess:

Aragorn : He will be a hero in this box. But he will be the Fellowship hero (as he is more important than Legolas/Gimli and is the only left main character who goes through the paths of the dead)

Legolas/Gimli : These two have more or less the same chances. They could be a possibility or get split one in this the other in the next, but there are better guesses as I only see a Leadership version of them.

Pippin: Had his Spirit form way before Merry, but he could show us how good of a tactics hero he would proof in the siege of the White City. He would be one of my final guesses if not for two or three other characters. I also believe we will stay with one tactics hobbir hero forever.

Beregond : Woudn't be to surprised if we get him, but what other role than a super Defender could he fill?

Eowyn ​: Here we go​. I will bet on her tactics inarnation. There is just no better moment to introduce this than this battle. The death of the witch-king deserves a hero to replay it again and again. Extra Points: This is the only part of the books where Eowyn fights (she is wounded and can't participate in the battle at the black gate)

Eomer: An other of my favorite guesses. his would be his Leadership Version, but this might be even better for the last Expansion, after Théoden is dead, I don't know and Théoden dies "during" this box. Overall I think Eowyn is the safer bet and two Rohan heroes in Gondor's greatest battle? Would be strange, but on the other Hand Rohan pretty much saves the City at the last moment.

Faramir : He could become a tactics hero, but is wounded for most of the remaining storyline, but still possible.

Denethor: I would put him above Eomer. We only have his lore hero and a pretty old Leadership ally. So a Spirit or Leadership hero does seem to fit the Expansion quite well. I would imagine a "drawback hero" like Grima or Spiritfindel. Maybe he could boost our allies, just to become mad and make them flee (=Shuffle into deck/discard them)? Or he could have very strong stats which unstopable go down every round until he kills himself (showing how the once strong leader gets mad and suicides)? I think you could do cool Things with him.

To the conclusion:

1. Aragorn (Fellowship)

2. Eowyn (Tactics)

3. Denethor ( Spirit /Leadership)

This Trio has one of the great heroes of the story (Aragorn) who can participate in every quest of the box as he takes part in every Event in the first part of the book. Eowyn kills the witch-king and is an iconic character, there won't be a better moment to publish a tactics verson of her (now or never). Finally Denethor (I prefer a Spirit Version, but Leadership is an Option) doesn't do all that much in the books (or movie ), but I would put him on the same Level of relevenz as treebeard (and he became a hero too). This way we have "1 of everything": Aragorn from the first book/the Fellowship, Eowyn second book/Rohan and Denethor third book/Gondor. This would represent the "teameffort" it took to hold Minas Tirith.

Wow, thanks for the input. I am inclined to believe the designers look more for theme than mechanics when they choose their saga characters. So although I agree it might be hard to create a new Beregond, I think his role in the book is substantial enough to grant a saga character. I am guessing an ally, but I would not be surprised by a hero version (after all, his part is much greater than Damrod's).

Éomer is a given hero bet.

Imrahil surely a character: probably a hero too.

Éowyn and Denethor, based on the above "logic" of mine, I think allies.

And I am hoping for ally versions of Merry and Pippin. I keep repeating this but perhaps they could gain the Rohan and Gondor traits, respectively.

And spheres are always intriguing, and harder to guess than names.

There's one version of a hero missing : spirit Aragorn.

Do not forget that the Saga Expansions give us 4 uniques allies (one from each sphere), so is possible to see Beregond, or Imrahil as allies.

This is an interesting topic.

I bet that Aragorn will get it's spirit version in the last saga box. An spirit Aragorn representing the king of Gondor. (Maybe with the traits Dúnedain, King, Gondor?)

For the next box, I'm totally agree with Calvadur, I believe that Eowyn and Denethor are great choices for this part of the story. Just an issue... I believe that Denethor should be Leadership (totally agree with the idea of giving him a drawback to represent it's madness).

What about Ioreth? A hero to give company to the Wardens of Healing would be pretty cool.

While Ioreth is cool, I really doubt she is most-climactic-saga-expansion hero material. She'll definately appear during one of the cycles. As for the heroes, I already said Tactics Eoawyn should be inevitable, and as for the other, it's most likely gonna be Leadership, but I don't really know. I think we'll get Merry and Pippin as allies, probably Merry in Tactics or Spirit and Pippin in Leadership, each with their respective Gondor and Rohan traits. Leadership Denethor who gets a drawback for his madness already exists, and he's pretty terrible. I doubt he'll appear in the Flame of the West.

Gandalf unlikely?

For me it would be the perfect time for us to see the might Gandalf the White!

very excited about that

We can already do that. In campaign mode, you can choose to revive Gandalf with the Beyond All Hope boon. Yes, that means I don't think we'll ever see a "Gandalf the White" hero. Designers already stated current Gandalf is supposed to be the most powerful hero, so no, I don't think we'll ever see another one.

Imrahil, Halbarad, Beregond, those are all good choices for allies. I doubt we'll se hero versions of them.

Personally I believe that Ecthelion of the fountain would be about as great as a suggestion as possible. Tolkien fans know elves after death exist in limbo at Mandos until the end of times. Unless said elf soloed a Balrog. In what Tolkien finished this refers to Glorfindel and Ecthelion. There is some debate on the subject of Glorfindel of Gondolin being the same as Glorfindel of Imladris. I believe the general consensus is that they are the same. Gandalf himself and his transition from Grey to White provides some precedence for this. As he hints at his experiences of returning from the dead after soloing a Balrog.

Well, I don't know whether the creators have the licensing and feel licensed to follow this precedent and create an Ecthelion Hero. A proven warrior sent back to middle-earth to oppose Sauron. I think players would be excited though as a personage in somewhat equal stature with the likes of Glorfindel and Gandalf and perhaps moreso as Gothmog was captain of the seven and known to be responsible for all sorts of horrible acts in his time. The timing seems propitious as the developers seem set on exploring the liminal aspects of middle-earth and traveling Westward, the direction of the blessed realm. But who can say?

It was not so much for killing a Balrog solo. It might look that way but it is said in Unfinished Tales that Elves could grow themselves another body again. Their spirits host that body. No Elf would return to ME however, except Glorfindel.

Also, Ecthelion of the Fountains would not fit the licensing, but also not the scene at all. Like I said, only Glorfindel ever returned. (Notes Tolkien made before he died, say that he wanted to make the two Glorfindels the same person, but he died too soon to implement this.)

Ecthelion is someone who, in my opinion, does not fit the time at all. This would be different then an FFG-made hero. That would be taking someone out of 'time and thought' and dropping him thousands of years later in some story. FFG-made heroes are heroes fit in the story and timeline.

Saruman.

Or John the Troll?

Or Fingolfin Hate?

A Spirit Aragorn with some willpower related ability would be a perfect fit thematically for the inevitable Paths of the Dead quest. Especially if the Spectral keyword comes back from The Stone of Erech.

A Spirit Aragorn with some willpower related ability would be a perfect fit thematically for the inevitable Paths of the Dead quest. Especially if the Spectral keyword comes back from The Stone of Erech.

You are aware that we are going to get Fellowship Aragorn right?

Is it certain that Saga box 5 is limited/purely about the first book in Return of the King?

Or could they also just select one storyline and make it about that? So, for example, Aragorn, resulting in Army of the Death, Siege of Minas Tirith & Battle of the Pelennor Fields and lastly the Battle of the Black Gate to tie box 6 into the story?

Mister Outlands, Hirluin might be an ally. Imrahil, ally maybe?

I would think Denethor a good hero, but he is in the Core Set.

Eomer does not, might make a good hero. Leadership version to represent him taking lead over the Rohirrim as their (soon-to-be) new king.

Aragorn will most likely be a Fellowship hero and I think he will get a Spirit version or ally version in box 6.

Gandalf the White would be awesome, but I think Gandalf remains Gandalf. In the timeframe of our game, the years between the start of the Hunt for Gollum and the start of the War, if I remember correctly, Gandalf is Grey and that does only change outside the timeframe. For Saga purposes they included the Boon.

Is it certain that Saga box 5 is limited/purely about the first book in Return of the King?

Yes.

A Spirit Aragorn with some willpower related ability would be a perfect fit thematically for the inevitable Paths of the Dead quest. Especially if the Spectral keyword comes back from The Stone of Erech.

You are aware that we are going to get Fellowship Aragorn right?

A Spirit Aragorn with some willpower related ability would be a perfect fit thematically for the inevitable Paths of the Dead quest. Especially if the Spectral keyword comes back from The Stone of Erech.

You are aware that we are going to get Fellowship Aragorn right?

The only way to be aware of it is to be playtesting it. Everything else is conjecture.

Wasn't that information available in an article?

Another Imrahil hero would be excellent, as would Tactics Eowyn. As Halbarad dies here (and we just got him), I don't think he is too likely. Versions of Merry and Pipping with the Rohan/Gondor traits would also be a very welcome addition, though they now have two hero cards each and I don't know how much play ally versions would receive.

An Ioreth ally, obviously focusing on healing, would be excellent. Maybe spirit Aragorn would also focus on healing? Could have the same quote on both cards. Previous Aragorn hero cards (Lore, Leadership) have had powerful abilities bleeding in from other spheres. There are, I think, a couple of named outlands lords as well.

I would not expect them to include a Hero that appears as a Core Set hero or an earlier Saga Hero. I wouldn't expect Tactics Eowyn as a Hero. Perhaps as an Ally, or (unlikely, but would be fun) a Dernhelm attachment that goes on her. There are quite a lot of possible characters for the Ally slots. For Hero my guess would be Eomer and Imrahil, they satisfy my conditions and are probably the two most important characters who do.