Vessery, Juke, x7 = 35

Glaive, Juke, x7 = 34

Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay, Stealth Device 29

?

I like this, although I kinda feel the triple x-7 defenders on crack will be slightly better. Or at least, easier to fly because Omega Leader has to be careful in the early part of the game, whereas three defenders can steamroll forward with less worries:

2 Glaives w/ x7 + crack shot = 33 x 2

Vessery w/ x7 + crack shot = 34

Glaive x7 juke

Omega relay juke * 3

I like this in theory----I haven't been entirely sold on Jax as the 34 pointer in that list, and the switch to a 4th Omega Juke + Academy really struggles against IG88s w/ HLC + crack shot. An x7 Glaive might prove just durable enough to make it work...

Onyx x7 Stealth Device x3.

Evade+focus+4 agility means that stealth is actually pretty good value.

Just to make sure people are aware of the numbers, MajorJuggler has posted his first observations:

Wow.

People will really have to up their game to keep up now, I think this expansion will break the game wide open again.

The "DVD".

Trust me. :-)

Vessery, TIE/D, Tractor Beam, Ruthlessness

Delta, TIE/D, Ion Cannon

Delta, TIE/x7

Delta 2 goes in hard, grabs the target lock with an evade to protect itself. When shooting starts, Vessery hits like a ton of bricks and does Tractor Beam shenanigans, and Delta 1 hits the (hopefully lower Ag) target for control and more damage, and Delta 2 follows with a short range primary shot.

Lots of damage output, lots of control, lots of action economy. There really isn't much lacking here, it's only real issue will be if your opponent can focus Delta 2 down hard enough and fast enough to slow Vessery's roll.

Just practiced a bit with this list while the kids were watching a silly Christmas movie

I like it. Three defenders with a bit of synergy and Vessery is frightening as hell. If the opponent doesn't kill Vessery quick, he can single-handedly dismantle an entire list. Going after the spotter delta is a mistake, frankly, because if you don't kill him, he can kite/turtle to avoid further focus fire, meanwhile your two remaining defenders continue to pound...

IG88s are tough though. With double HLC, they can kill Vessery in a single turn if dice turn against you (max two turns even with good dice). Unless they are close to activate Ruthlessness, its really tough for 2 deltas to finish off both HLC IG88s with only a single ion cannon...

Palp + aces I think is an easier match up because Ruthlessness forces the aces to stay split up. Lets you go after one and try to trap him while the other is kiting. If one of your defenders gets the block, the other two can easily seal their fate, and if you kill one ace before you lose a defender, its a real uphill battle for the remaining Ace, even with palp still around...

Stressbot is laughable. The Defenders just don't care about the stress, particularly Vessery and the x-7 Delta. Jousting lists have a real tough time with Ruthlessness because they want to stay close to make focus fire easier. But with Ruthlessness, Vessery can potentially kill 2 ships simultaneously before going down, and the deltas are there adding their damage, making it a favourable endgame for the Deltas in part thanks to the ion cannon (at least against small-based ships)

So yeah, thanks for sharing, Kinetic Operator. Looking forward to running this for reals!

I saw MJ's numbers on the other thread, and they are a bit concerning for game balance. I will be eagerly watching tournament results when the expansion goes legal, though. The Defenders fly pretty differently from other 30+ point ships, and I wonder how many will take the plunge. Certainly more now than 4 days ago.

We don't have a clear idea of the Wave 8 meta, though.

Thinking about the triple x7 list with Crack Shot-

What about taking the 3 biggest debris fields and Wired instead of Crack Shot? You just run with whatever stress you pixk up. You get lightly modified attacks all the time, and lightly modified defenses against every shot, plus the Evade. It's sort of half an action on offense and 1.5+ actions on defense.

We don't have a clear idea of the Wave 8 meta, though.

we know it's got defenders in it

I've got about 20+ builds made up at the moment from all the different options Imp. Veterans has given us! I wish there were more players around me so I could test some of these lists out more often. Right now, looking at a triple Juke list, assuming the TAP dial is decent:

Darth Vader - Tie Advanced - PS 9 - 29

• TIE/x1 - (-4)
• Advanced Targeting Computer - 5
• Juke - 2

Inquisitor - Tie Adv. Prototype - PS 8 - 25

• TIE/v1 - 1
• Autothrusters - 2
• Juke - 2

Colonel Vessery - Defender - PS 6 - 35

• TIE/x7 - (-2)
• Stealth Device - 3
• Juke - 2

All three ships have great action economy, with Vader just getting his free second action, the Inquisitor getting a free Evade when he Target Locks, and Vessery getting a free Evade from high speed maneuvers along with free Target Locks from Vader and possibly the Inquisitor. Throw some Autothrusters on the Inquisitor to make him a major pain at range 3, Stealth Device on Vessery because he's the biggest point investment in the list, and with a defensive Focus and an Evade token, Stealth Device possibly does more for him in this list than Shield Upgrade. And of course, Juke is the icing on the cake, with three ships all forcing enemies to either waste their Focus tokens on defense, making their offense less viable, or just accept the extra damage and hope that Focus comes in handy on the offense. What do you guys think?

Thinking about the triple x7 list with Crack Shot-

What about taking the 3 biggest debris fields and Wired instead of Crack Shot? You just run with whatever stress you pixk up. You get lightly modified attacks all the time, and lightly modified defenses against every shot, plus the Evade. It's sort of half an action on offense and 1.5+ actions on defense.

I haven't tried that yet. My concern there is basically giving up barrel roll. Don't need to BR often, but when you do, it tends to be clutch...

Thinking about the triple x7 list with Crack Shot-

What about taking the 3 biggest debris fields and Wired instead of Crack Shot? You just run with whatever stress you pixk up. You get lightly modified attacks all the time, and lightly modified defenses against every shot, plus the Evade. It's sort of half an action on offense and 1.5+ actions on defense.

Dash is the reason I've stopped taking debris fields. If he can land on one and still shoot it really ruins my TIE interceptor game. However, these guys have some pretty good defenses, and care about landing on debris even less than Dash does* (and a WHOLE lot less than TIE interceptors do). I think it sounds worth a try. Partly because Crack Shot hates my TIE interceptors, so the less Crack Shot the better, but partly because (focus)Predator on offense and defense sounds nice.

On the other hand, rerolling defense dice hasn't been all that great to me. I'd personally like the Focus token better.

*EDIT: Okay, nobody cares less about obstacles than Dash. But at least on asteroids he has to get off or forfeit shooting.

I saw MJ's numbers on the other thread, and they are a bit concerning for game balance. I will be eagerly watching tournament results when the expansion goes legal, though. The Defenders fly pretty differently from other 30+ point ships, and I wonder how many will take the plunge. Certainly more now than 4 days ago.

But this is how it SHOULD be!!! Tie Defenders are the best of the best of the best of the best of the Imperial Navy's anti-fighter arsenal. Until now, they were a sad joke. It's about time people got to fear them!

On the other hand, the other factions are getting more than their fair share of new toys. Futhermore, when was the last time Imperials won worlds again? I would also argue that Poe with health regeneration is still more efficient than a named Tie Defender in a one on one fight.

Good point on giving up Barrel Roll blade-mercurial. I would hate planning to never use it.

Poe with regeneration might be more efficient, but the match up heavily favors a TIE/D in a 1v1 fight. You can hit with an Ion Cannon regularly, even with perfect greens from Poe. That means a dead Poe.

Ion Cannons just ruin R2-D2's day. He may shift to R5-P9.

not that this should come as a surprise, but naked green dice are still god-awful and the defender has no thrusters to compensate (only x7)

this'll make abuse of Tie/D a bit more difficult than may be imagined, especially because long range scanner bombers are as hilarious as I thought they'd be

who knows? the dark horse bomber may end up being the competitive mainstay, instead

Ion Cannons just ruin R2-D2's day. He may shift to R5-P9.

that literally lowers his chances against every other matchup

nevermind r3-a2, a simple block will **** him over

win-win for the empire

Dark horse Bomber? Is that a term for the Homing+Seismic+EM build or something new I would learn?

Honestly, we need to see Guidance Chip to see whether Long Range Scanners will win out.

Dark horse Bomber? Is that a term for the Homing+Seismic+EM build or something new I would learn?

nah, Dark Horse as in "a little-known person or thing that emerges to prominence, especially in a competition of some sort or a contestant that seems unlikely to succeed"

which, incidentally, does involve homing missiles + em + seismics. They're just kind of awesome

I'm betting LRS will be preferred on alpha strike builds. The TL+Focus combo on the first turn is so powerful. Guidance may be better on more sustained builds. As it almost certainly has different requirements to equip, it's probably not a decision for a lot of ships.

Guidance, provided it does the whole free focus for ordnance thing I'm praying for, is going straight to Redline

Dark horse Bomber? Is that a term for the Homing+Seismic+EM build or something new I would learn?

nah, Dark Horse as in "a little-known person or thing that emerges to prominence, especially in a competition of some sort or a contestant that seems unlikely to succeed"

which, incidentally, does involve homing missiles + em + seismics. They're just kind of awesome

I'm sort of feeling Gamma Veterans with Homing Missile + LRS + Crack Shot for 25 points. It's got two one-shot weapons to boost it's damage, but it can combine them for a nasty mega shot.

Those are as close to guaranteed to remove a ship on the first pass as you can get in X-Wing. Maybe they have potential, but it might not be enough. Lets hope it is, for the Bomber!

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

Sounds like marriage!

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

Sounds like marriage!

I've only been married for 13 days but it's pretty neat so far...