Defenders are pretty balanced though

Decent health and attack, high agi; decent offense and accelerated defense with x7. Just all around solid.

Will still be running mine with FOs or bombers, though

Do you like the Deltas, KO? The ability to block is pretty nice, but going second against all those jousty PS2 things makes me a little nervous.

So, does everyone just want to max out on Defenders? No one likes to build a bit more of a balanced list? Didn't someone win Worlds with one? Seems to me that if you have all of one type, then if something can beat it....it really beats it hard. Why push all of the same ship in a list when you can go balanced?

Part of it is we're just thinking about Defenders as a whole, so it's fun to think about a bunch together. Part of it is that it's a really well-balanced ship on its own. I currently run them with FOs or base TIE miniswarms and I expect to do the same when the new stuff hits.

I like Deltas, yes. They are pretty solid in either configuration, and I really like being able to move first.

heychadwick -

As for looking at all-Defender squads, I like "focused" squads that pick one thing they do that they are better than everything else at, and exploiting it as much as possible. I find them more entertaining to design and play. Having said that, you are 100% correct that if you have a single ship type you are just asking for trouble.

I tried out 3 Onyx w/ X7 and Hull upgrades this past weekend. Granted, it was against a kinda silly build (Han w/Lando crew, "Blue Ace" w/ Autothrusters, and a Blue Squad B-Wing), but I found that Defenders with a focus/evade every turn are -very- durable, especially in the late game.

I plan on trying the 2x Onyx w/ Ions & TIE-D + Onxy w/ X7 next time I play. I gotta say though, I love the extra defense the X7 title brings.

I also want to try 6x Academy Pilots + Delta w/ X7. Seems like it could be a nasty thing to face.

The "DVD". It WILL be a thing, with Ruthless or Outmaneuver. Trust me on this one, I have foreseen it. :-)

Delta (TIE-D, Ion Cannon)

Vessery (Outmaneuver, TIE-D, Tractor Beam)

Delta (TIE x 7)

Someone should make a .gif of Emperor Palpatine when he says "i have forseen it" but instead say "i have proxy'd it"

Yesterday i played

Vessery x7, juke, stealth device

Standard Soontir

Omega Leader juke/comm

vs:

TLT stresshog

Wedge wit IA, predator, BB-8

Poe with AT, predator, R2-D2

and despite the fact i lost soontir due to poor flying very early, vessery was a hell of a tough ship even with 4 stress don´t bothering him. In the end vessery killed wedge and poe before dying to console fire crit with to much stress.

After all Omega leader was the game winner annyoing the **** out of my opponent and finally killing the stress hog last.

other than that soontir might not be the best sparring partner, maybe the new inquisitor will take its place or 2 crackshot omegas.

Vader, and Soontir Fel are a solid pair no matter what you put with them. Palpshuttle helps the aces out, sure, but an x7 Defender for 28-30 points helps put a fast, actually tanky 3-attack brawler on the table, demanding to be dealt with.

I predict similar luck can be hand with Carnor + Soontir as well; the ability to have an actually fast brawler to punish anyone who insists on chasing them is pretty darn tasty. A pair of TIEs never quite cut it (Though 2x BSPs w/Crack Shot are a worthy option); the Defender lets us finally put a hammer to the imperial scalpels.

I didn't even notice the Mk2 engines in the previous post. They seem pretty unnecessary, honestly.

I'm curious to see if anyone has tried running X7 Defenders against stress control list. While I understand that they will continue to receive evade tokens, I am legitimately concerned that a lack of Mk II Engines will prevent most defenders from ever clearing multiple stress tokens (i.e. from a stressbot). A defender with no focus of TL tokens for offense hits like a wet noodle.

SO I ran this list tonight as a test

Rexler Brath — TIE Defender 37 Push the Limit 3 Ion Cannon 3 Twin Ion Engine Mk. II 1 TIE/D 0 Ship Total: 44

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30 TIE/x7 -2 Ship Total: 28

Delta Squadron Pilot — TIE Defender 30 TIE/x7 -2 Ship Total: 28

Against a Poe, Jake, and wedge list. it was super efficient. I under estimated how easy it is to dial in speed 3 maneuvers. Rexler bit it early, but the damage was done. the two defenders only lost a shield each.

The title does worry me though, it seems very strong, it could even be a bit much. That is just some first impressions I want to test out a few more builds, especially with the new TIE Bomber shuttles running combos of tacticians and fleet officers.

These changes really mix up the game, its gonna be hard to wait for it to actually be released.

Vader, and Soontir Fel are a solid pair no matter what you put with them. Palpshuttle helps the aces out, sure, but an x7 Defender for 28-30 points helps put a fast, actually tanky 3-attack brawler on the table, demanding to be dealt with.

I predict similar luck can be hand with Carnor + Soontir as well; the ability to have an actually fast brawler to punish anyone who insists on chasing them is pretty darn tasty. A pair of TIEs never quite cut it (Though 2x BSPs w/Crack Shot are a worthy option); the Defender lets us finally put a hammer to the imperial scalpels.

I ran Vader & Fel +night beast and BSP against a buddy who was using Heavers stress bot & Poe worlds list. I mauled him pretty good (my buddy isn't heaver though). I would like to proxy an x7 in there and see if it beats two ties. As strong as Vader and Fel and together I think a three amigos with a defender would put opponents in a real tough spot of who to kill first.

I didn't even notice the Mk2 engines in the previous post. They seem pretty unnecessary, honestly.

I'm curious to see if anyone has tried running X7 Defenders against stress control list. While I understand that they will continue to receive evade tokens, I am legitimately concerned that a lack of Mk II Engines will prevent most defenders from ever clearing multiple stress tokens (i.e. from a stressbot). A defender with no focus of TL tokens for offense hits like a wet noodle.

At least i tried it with Vessery and even with 4 to 6 stress that i had in the meanwhile he always got TL and evade. Although Vessery might be a bit special considering this action economy but even Rex with predator ignores stress.

In that game i had a buddy watching us and he always said take Mk2 and not SD. But i actually convinced him hard that at least vessery doesn´t give a **** about stress. Kind of an imperial Tycho.

Played with the new titles on Saturday night and had a whale of a time. I LOVE the X7 version, and love that it makes the Defender fly like basically nothing else in the game - your default setting is LUDICROUS SPEED and you care about getting blocked or stressed less than basically any other small ship.

My mates very unhappy with the veterans pack he already loses to defenders on a regular basis and its about to get worse Muwhahahahahahahahaha.

Last night I threw a bunch of asteroids on the field, 8 or so and placed 6 satellites in between them with 1 hp and 1 ag and then I timed myself how fast I could shoot them all and end up in my starting position.

X7 took about 5 minutes 13 seconds, mainly utilizing 3 speed maneuvers.

A PTL Interceptor took about a minute longer and hit an asteroid along the way.

Last week I used:

Vess with VI, /D title, Ion and Mk II

Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics

3 x Obsidians.

Whilst I appreciate this has nothing to proc his ability, I wanted a cheap PS8 Defender to set beside my swarm.

So first game was against Dash/Corran - Victory to the Defender.

Being able to ignore range bonus on the Ion really hurts ships like Corran who normally wouldn't worry about a three dice attack however the threat of being hit by an Ion Cannon was too real and I found that it soaked up a lot of tokens on a decent roll. However, only having a single focus for both attacks and defence meant I was often relying on unmodified rolls, which as well all know, won't cut it against a high agility ace. Made me miss the HLC a little bit.

Lost two TIES in this game and Defender was on fire with a single hull left due to Dash being Dash and ignoring range/arc/asteroids etc.

Second game, Dash/Corran - Victory to the Defender, went to time.

Dash melted early to the swarm and I then spent the rest of the game chasing Corran. The dice were with us both this game and despite forcing Corran on to a rock due to an ion token, no damage was caused. However, when time was called I managed to Ion him again with him facing the board edge. One more turn and he would of been off.

Lost nothing this game except three shields off Vess.

Third game - Dash/Poe (Can you guess what the meta is at my club?) - Victory to the Defender.

One mistake from Dash mid game left him in range 2 of the entire TIE swarm, he died due to Howlrunner and her re-rolls and not rolling a single evade however the Defender minced the PS10 Poe.

Range 2 engagement and the Ion cannon rolled hit, hit, focus. So I spent it to ensure the ion hit. The primary attack was lacklustre and did nothing but the ion was there and so was the 4K.

Poe couldn't survive after that, two hits from an Ion and a range 1 attack with the Primary/focus punched the shields off. With Ion being a straight white, R2 was left useless and Poe once again floated forward. My main concern at this point was the lack of one forward on the defender but this is easily remedied by a one bank and barrel roll and keeps the pressure on.

Poe died the next turn.

All in all, I think the D title gives much needed utility to the defender. The Ion certainly covers some of the weaknesses that the Imperial side has (control) and also allows the Defender to tangle with aces and abuse the white K turn. All three opponents knew it was coming and groaned when the dial was revealed but you cannot deny the effectiveness of the Defender signature move.

I think the issue I have now is WHEN to spend that single focus. Do you go with the control shot, the primary or save for defence? From the above games, it was defence > Ion > Primary when jousting and when behind it became Primary > Ion > Defence.

I am going to change the TIES to three Omega with Crackshot to see if I can get some use out of Vess ability but I think I will happily change to a Glaive or Maarek when it becomes official.

Another squad option I would like to try out, purely for maximum lulz, is Whisper escorted by a pair of X7's. I shall call the list "tripping balls", because I have a soft spot for wordplay

Another squad option I would like to try out, purely for maximum lulz, is Whisper escorted by a pair of X7's. I shall call the list "tripping balls", because I have a soft spot for wordplay

I used to run Whisper with two Deltas back before the decloak rule change and it was an oppressive list; being able to block with the Defenders, have them absorb some hits and still fight back, while Whisper scampered hither and yon was almost obscene. The x7 title is going to make that more cost-effective and brutal than ever.

Guys (girls if any )

Bit of clarification please.

Vessery skill states

When attacking, immediately after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the defender if it already has a red target lock token.

Q: With D title equipped. Assuming there is already red TL on opponents ship. Does shooting equipped cannon, give Ves TL, which can be then used for primary attack?

Guys (girls if any )

Bit of clarification please.

Vessery skill states

When attacking, immediately after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the defender if it already has a red target lock token.

Q: With D title equipped. Assuming there is already red TL on opponents ship. Does shooting equipped cannon, give Ves TL, which can be then used for primary attack?

It's even better than that. If the target already has a red token, Vessery gains a target lock DIRECTLY after rolling dice on an attack, which means that lock can be used on the attack it is triggered from. With the TIE/D title, he can get TL triggers on BOTH attacks

Last week I used:

Vess with VI, /D title, Ion and Mk II

Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics

3 x Obsidians.

Whilst I appreciate this has nothing to proc his ability, I wanted a cheap PS8 Defender to set beside my swarm.

So first game was against Dash/Corran - Victory to the Defender.

Being able to ignore range bonus on the Ion really hurts ships like Corran who normally wouldn't worry about a three dice attack however the threat of being hit by an Ion Cannon was too real and I found that it soaked up a lot of tokens on a decent roll. However, only having a single focus for both attacks and defence meant I was often relying on unmodified rolls, which as well all know, won't cut it against a high agility ace. Made me miss the HLC a little bit.

Lost two TIES in this game and Defender was on fire with a single hull left due to Dash being Dash and ignoring range/arc/asteroids etc.

Second game, Dash/Corran - Victory to the Defender, went to time.

Dash melted early to the swarm and I then spent the rest of the game chasing Corran. The dice were with us both this game and despite forcing Corran on to a rock due to an ion token, no damage was caused. However, when time was called I managed to Ion him again with him facing the board edge. One more turn and he would of been off.

Lost nothing this game except three shields off Vess.

Third game - Dash/Poe (Can you guess what the meta is at my club?) - Victory to the Defender.

One mistake from Dash mid game left him in range 2 of the entire TIE swarm, he died due to Howlrunner and her re-rolls and not rolling a single evade however the Defender minced the PS10 Poe.

Range 2 engagement and the Ion cannon rolled hit, hit, focus. So I spent it to ensure the ion hit. The primary attack was lacklustre and did nothing but the ion was there and so was the 4K.

Poe couldn't survive after that, two hits from an Ion and a range 1 attack with the Primary/focus punched the shields off. With Ion being a straight white, R2 was left useless and Poe once again floated forward. My main concern at this point was the lack of one forward on the defender but this is easily remedied by a one bank and barrel roll and keeps the pressure on.

Poe died the next turn.

All in all, I think the D title gives much needed utility to the defender. The Ion certainly covers some of the weaknesses that the Imperial side has (control) and also allows the Defender to tangle with aces and abuse the white K turn. All three opponents knew it was coming and groaned when the dial was revealed but you cannot deny the effectiveness of the Defender signature move.

I think the issue I have now is WHEN to spend that single focus. Do you go with the control shot, the primary or save for defence? From the above games, it was defence > Ion > Primary when jousting and when behind it became Primary > Ion > Defence.

I am going to change the TIES to three Omega with Crackshot to see if I can get some use out of Vess ability but I think I will happily change to a Glaive or Maarek when it becomes official.

Thanks for writing this up. May I suggest dropping swarm tactics and VI for predator on Vess? I think you would see it more than pays for its points.

Another squad option I would like to try out, purely for maximum lulz, is Whisper escorted by a pair of X7's. I shall call the list "tripping balls", because I have a soft spot for wordplay

I used to run Whisper with two Deltas back before the decloak rule change and it was an oppressive list; being able to block with the Defenders, have them absorb some hits and still fight back, while Whisper scampered hither and yon was almost obscene. The x7 title is going to make that more cost-effective and brutal than ever.

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

"Whisper" (32)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Sensor Jammer (4)

Rebel Captive (3)

Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Might drop the Jammer down to FCS for an initiative bid, but honestly I think the ACD/Jammer combo for TLTs and PWTs is worth having to move before Fel/Vader.

Just curious. What do you think of this list?

Whisper - FCS - intel agent - ACD

Onyx - X7 x2

Guys (girls if any )

Bit of clarification please.

Vessery skill states

When attacking, immediately after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the defender if it already has a red target lock token.

Q: With D title equipped. Assuming there is already red TL on opponents ship. Does shooting equipped cannon, give Ves TL, which can be then used for primary attack?

It's even better than that. If the target already has a red token, Vessery gains a target lock DIRECTLY after rolling dice on an attack, which means that lock can be used on the attack it is triggered from. With the TIE/D title, he can get TL triggers on BOTH attacks

Glorious.

Guys (girls if any )

Bit of clarification please.

Vessery skill states

When attacking, immediately after you roll attack dice, you may acquire a target lock on the defender if it already has a red target lock token.

Q: With D title equipped. Assuming there is already red TL on opponents ship. Does shooting equipped cannon, give Ves TL, which can be then used for primary attack?

It's even better than that. If the target already has a red token, Vessery gains a target lock DIRECTLY after rolling dice on an attack, which means that lock can be used on the attack it is triggered from. With the TIE/D title, he can get TL triggers on BOTH attacks

Glorious.

Yeah, there's a reason Vessery is being touted as the go-to guy for the TIE/D. Not that he isn't great in the X7, mind you

Just curious. What do you think of this list?

Whisper - FCS - intel agent - ACD

Onyx - X7 x2

I love the Intel Agent / Decloak combo, you can block like nothing else. I personally don't find the 2pt-2PS purchase on the Onyx pilots to be worth it, I prefer using Deltas to try and move first. That frees up points for more investment in Whisper, and with things as they are I feel TLTs are worth worrying about for her sake. That said, shooting before most TLTs is probably not a terrible plan either.

Just curious. What do you think of this list?

Whisper - FCS - intel agent - ACD

Onyx - X7 x2

I love the Intel Agent / Decloak combo, you can block like nothing else. I personally don't find the 2pt-2PS purchase on the Onyx pilots to be worth it, I prefer using Deltas to try and move first. That frees up points for more investment in Whisper, and with things as they are I feel TLTs are worth worrying about for her sake. That said, shooting before most TLTs is probably not a terrible plan either.

Exactly. With PS3, the opponent is under more pressure to shoot the defenders (because they can PS kill a y-wing) so they may not target whisper (well, unless you put her in range of all enemy ships). PS1 is nice too (for blocking), so I think either could work