Aren't Glaive and Kyle the same PS? Was there a VI in there that I missed?

That was going over the hypothetical example if I had PS3 instead of PS6.

Ah, missed that somehow.

Just played a game using vessery with x7 title nothing else. I thought the /D would be the better of the two but the durability and action economy of the x7 was insane. Only did 2 maneuvers the entire match lower than speed 3 btw and that was to close it out. Its literally like a regen droid.

Yeah, the question of these 2 titles is a really interesting one. The TIE/D title initially grabbed me really hard, because it works on ships that run more similarly to the ones that I already run. The x7 title, though, effectively makes the Ion Cannon 5 points and -1 Evade most turns. That's a huge swing! But so is getting an extra control shot every turn. It's a really interesting squad construction question.

Tldr the game is wide open.

Of course, the question between the X7 and the TIE/D does have a most elegant solution...

Simply run both!

Vessery gets TIE/D and runs next to x7s. Pretty elegant!

I guess it would kind of depend on whether your list needs a defensive or offensive boost. A TIE/D has the firepower of two ships, which always gets to focus fire and will keep firing until you've killed both. It's also nearly as hard to kill as two TIE Fighters. An x7 is a lot tougher, but also more predictable and without any control options. I think you really have to think of list synergi when choosing pilot, title, cannon and elite pilot talent here.

I am/was of similar mind. I immediately gravitated to the/D and honestly it was great. Situationally better and potentially more devastating. That said after only 2 games with the x7 I'm astounded. It's a completely different ship. Vessery was solid combined with LRS and ATC support, but his ability was about as swingy as lone wolf can be. I'm not sure which title I like to use more but I do know the x7 doesn't have any issues with jousting. LRS is also gonna make a splash I believe.

Tldr the game is wide open.

I mean, even not using the title is still an option. Top tier, probably not. But I can see HLC Rexlar and Mangler Maarek being fun tier 2 options.

Vessery gets TIE/D and runs next to x7s. Pretty elegant!

I was kind of thinking the same.

Vessery

- Crack Shot

- Hull upgrade

- TIE/D

- Tractor Beam

Onyx

- TIE/x7

Onyx

- TIE/x7

...is exactly 100 points. Should absolutely tear through both quad TLTs and large ships, and have a decent chance against aces with free actions and blocking. Eventually Vessery should be able to draw a bead on Corran, Poe or Soontir, and with two shots, target lock and focus he has a reasonably decent chance of scoring a hit.

I am/was of similar mind. I immediately gravitated to the/D and honestly it was great. Situationally better and potentially more devastating. That said after only 2 games with the x7 I'm astounded. It's a completely different ship. Vessery was solid combined with LRS and ATC support, but his ability was about as swingy as lone wolf can be. I'm not sure which title I like to use more but I do know the x7 doesn't have any issues with jousting. LRS is also gonna make a splash I believe.

Tldr the game is wide open.

I mean, even not using the title is still an option. Top tier, probably not. But I can see HLC Rexlar and Mangler Maarek being fun tier 2 options.

Anyway Ya I plan on running maareks defender extensively.

Brainstorming another build:

Rex, x7, Predator, Engine Upgrade = 42 points

Vessery, x7, VI, Engine Upgrade = 38 points

This gives you 2 super tough, blazing fast, potentially hard hitting ships, with 20 points for a supporting ship. With this setup, the supporting ship needs to be the primary target locker for Vessery, but not in a way that is cumbersome.

Options:

Epsilon Ace + Comm Relay = 20 points

Gets an early target lock for Vessery (that probably wasn't doing him any good at range 3 anyway), and acts as an obnoxious mini-ace against PS9 manever reliant ships. Once he takes hull damage, he becomes a solid blocker.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missile + LRS = 20

Maximizes the alpha strike, but makes later TL acquisition difficult.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Darth Vader = 19

Helps finish off stuff that the Defenders do the kill, and covers the Defenders against Fel-types. It doesn't really need it's Target Lock to do its thing, but it won't have it for the opening exchange, most likely.

Haven't trawled through all 13 pages.

Glaive squadron, pts unknown, EPT probably.

If 33pts, Glaive, x7, VI, TwIon = 33 x 3, 99pts

PS8, loads of greens, with Evades.

Seems a little brutal.

If Delta/x7s are as good as MJ says, then this is going to be pretty hardcore:

Colonel Vessery (35)

Marksmanship (3)

Ion Cannon (3)

Hull Upgrade (3)

TIE/D (0)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

TIE/x7 (-2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Vessery has to be the other player's first target, but that's great given how the single evade gets better the fewer attacks there are incoming.

There's also:

Colonel Vessery (35)

Veteran Instincts (1)

Flechette Cannon (2)

TIE/D (0)

Darth Vader (29)

Juke (2)

Advanced Targeting Computer (1)

TIE/x1 (0)

The Inquisitor (25)

Juke (2)

Autothrusters (2)

TIE/v1 (1)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I wish that I had the 4 points to spare for clusters on the Inquisitor, but I like that each ship is a credible threat.

Brainstorming another build:

Rex, x7, Predator, Engine Upgrade = 42 points

Vessery, x7, VI, Engine Upgrade = 38 points

This gives you 2 super tough, blazing fast, potentially hard hitting ships, with 20 points for a supporting ship. With this setup, the supporting ship needs to be the primary target locker for Vessery, but not in a way that is cumbersome.

Options:

Epsilon Ace + Comm Relay = 20 points

Gets an early target lock for Vessery (that probably wasn't doing him any good at range 3 anyway), and acts as an obnoxious mini-ace against PS9 manever reliant ships. Once he takes hull damage, he becomes a solid blocker.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missile + LRS = 20

Maximizes the alpha strike, but makes later TL acquisition difficult.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Darth Vader = 19

Helps finish off stuff that the Defenders do the kill, and covers the Defenders against Fel-types. It doesn't really need it's Target Lock to do its thing, but it won't have it for the opening exchange, most likely.

I'm going to suggest the Troll Bomber here: Scimitar, Shuttle, Mara Jade and Intelligence Agent. Check, move, roll if necessary, block and stress all over the place. It's job is basically to make opposing ships, especially aces, a lot more predictable. Not all that easy to kill either, with 6 hit points behind two agility, and with agent and roll it can even arc dodge aces occasionally.

Haven't trawled through all 13 pages.

Glaive squadron, pts unknown, EPT probably.

If 33pts, Glaive, x7, VI, TwIon = 33 x 3, 99pts

PS8, loads of greens, with Evades.

Seems a little brutal.

A similar squad that folks have proposed is Crack Shot instead of VI. It's basically a meta decision. I think it's worth spending a point to upgrade one Glaive to Vessery, though.

Brainstorming another build:

Rex, x7, Predator, Engine Upgrade = 42 points

Vessery, x7, VI, Engine Upgrade = 38 points

This gives you 2 super tough, blazing fast, potentially hard hitting ships, with 20 points for a supporting ship. With this setup, the supporting ship needs to be the primary target locker for Vessery, but not in a way that is cumbersome.

Options:

Epsilon Ace + Comm Relay = 20 points

Gets an early target lock for Vessery (that probably wasn't doing him any good at range 3 anyway), and acts as an obnoxious mini-ace against PS9 manever reliant ships. Once he takes hull damage, he becomes a solid blocker.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missile + LRS = 20

Maximizes the alpha strike, but makes later TL acquisition difficult.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Darth Vader = 19

Helps finish off stuff that the Defenders do the kill, and covers the Defenders against Fel-types. It doesn't really need it's Target Lock to do its thing, but it won't have it for the opening exchange, most likely.

I'm going to suggest the Troll Bomber here: Scimitar, Shuttle, Mara Jade and Intelligence Agent. Check, move, roll if necessary, block and stress all over the place. It's job is basically to make opposing ships, especially aces, a lot more predictable. Not all that easy to kill either, with 6 hit points behind two agility, and with agent and roll it can even arc dodge aces occasionally.

That's a good one to add to the mix. Mara makes jousting against Defenders even harder.

Brainstorming another build:

Rex, x7, Predator, Engine Upgrade = 42 points

Vessery, x7, VI, Engine Upgrade = 38 points

This gives you 2 super tough, blazing fast, potentially hard hitting ships, with 20 points for a supporting ship. With this setup, the supporting ship needs to be the primary target locker for Vessery, but not in a way that is cumbersome.

Options:

Epsilon Ace + Comm Relay = 20 points

Gets an early target lock for Vessery (that probably wasn't doing him any good at range 3 anyway), and acts as an obnoxious mini-ace against PS9 manever reliant ships. Once he takes hull damage, he becomes a solid blocker.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missile + LRS = 20

Maximizes the alpha strike, but makes later TL acquisition difficult.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Darth Vader = 19

Helps finish off stuff that the Defenders do the kill, and covers the Defenders against Fel-types. It doesn't really need it's Target Lock to do its thing, but it won't have it for the opening exchange, most likely.

I'm going to suggest the Troll Bomber here: Scimitar, Shuttle, Mara Jade and Intelligence Agent. Check, move, roll if necessary, block and stress all over the place. It's job is basically to make opposing ships, especially aces, a lot more predictable. Not all that easy to kill either, with 6 hit points behind two agility, and with agent and roll it can even arc dodge aces occasionally.

That's a good one to add to the mix. Mara makes jousting against Defenders even harder.

Brainstorming another build:

Rex, x7, Predator, Engine Upgrade = 42 points

Vessery, x7, VI, Engine Upgrade = 38 points

This gives you 2 super tough, blazing fast, potentially hard hitting ships, with 20 points for a supporting ship. With this setup, the supporting ship needs to be the primary target locker for Vessery, but not in a way that is cumbersome.

Options:

Epsilon Ace + Comm Relay = 20 points

Gets an early target lock for Vessery (that probably wasn't doing him any good at range 3 anyway), and acts as an obnoxious mini-ace against PS9 manever reliant ships. Once he takes hull damage, he becomes a solid blocker.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot + Concussion Missile + LRS = 20

Maximizes the alpha strike, but makes later TL acquisition difficult.

Scimitar Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Darth Vader = 19

Helps finish off stuff that the Defenders do the kill, and covers the Defenders against Fel-types. It doesn't really need it's Target Lock to do its thing, but it won't have it for the opening exchange, most likely.

I'm going to suggest the Troll Bomber here: Scimitar, Shuttle, Mara Jade and Intelligence Agent. Check, move, roll if necessary, block and stress all over the place. It's job is basically to make opposing ships, especially aces, a lot more predictable. Not all that easy to kill either, with 6 hit points behind two agility, and with agent and roll it can even arc dodge aces occasionally.

That's a good one to add to the mix. Mara makes jousting against Defenders even harder.

I love the idea of the "troll bomber". Every time I try to come up with a TIE Shuttle build, that's the first place my mind goes.

I've only been married for 13 days but it's pretty neat so far...

Protip:

Do _not_ wake your partner at 12:01am by singing them happy birthday. It sounds awesome and romantic. It isn't.

I've only been married for 13 days but it's pretty neat so far...

Protip:

Do _not_ wake your partner at 12:01am by singing them happy birthday. It sounds awesome and romantic. It isn't.

Instead, cook them breckfast.

I've only been married for 13 days but it's pretty neat so far...

Protip:

Do _not_ wake your partner at 12:01am by singing them happy birthday. It sounds awesome and romantic. It isn't.

Instead, cook them breckfast.

My wife would rather be woken up at 12:01 .

Breakfast is not for us really, let alone cooked.

How to beat the Defender X7 is going to be the question we're about to have to solve I guess.

Two ships which always want to take TL as their action and the Vessery that loves them. I love Ruthlessness on the D version of Vess because I'm expecting Biggs to make a bit of a comeback now Integrated Astromech is A Thing and a double-tap Ruthlessness is just a hilarious **** You to the Troll King Of The Rebellion. I worry that there's not much ace protection here (maybe the Inquisitor should take VI over Juke?), they're probably a bit vulnerable to massed TLT and Vessery feels a bit squishy, but you know.

=============

Lock & Unload

=============

100 points

Pilots

------

Colonel Vessery (44)

TIE Defender (35), Ion Cannon (3), Ruthlessness (3), TIE/D (0), Hull Upgrade (3)

“Omega Leader” (26)

TIE/fo Fighter (21), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

The Inquisitor (30)

TIE Advanced Prototype (25), Juke (2), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

Haven't trawled through all 13 pages.

Glaive squadron, pts unknown, EPT probably.

If 33pts, Glaive, x7, VI, TwIon = 33 x 3, 99pts

PS8, loads of greens, with Evades.

Seems a little brutal.

A similar squad that folks have proposed is Crack Shot instead of VI. It's basically a meta decision. I think it's worth spending a point to upgrade one Glaive to Vessery, though.

This squadron would be awesome, but I have a strong suspicion that Glaive squadron will be 34 points. +1 point over an Onyx squadron for an additional 3 PS and (presumably) an EPT would render Onyx squadron completely obsolete. For what it counts, I hope you are right, as I would love to have the points in a 3x Glaive squadron to add in MK II engines along with VI/Crackshot.

How to beat the Defender X7 is going to be the question we're about to have to solve I guess.

Still, can't wait for the expantion! Defenders and Bombers have always been my favorite ships to fly. Will also be fun using the Shuttle title with Jonus for maximum support capability.

Haven't trawled through all 13 pages.

Glaive squadron, pts unknown, EPT probably.

If 33pts, Glaive, x7, VI, TwIon = 33 x 3, 99pts

PS8, loads of greens, with Evades.

Seems a little brutal.

A similar squad that folks have proposed is Crack Shot instead of VI. It's basically a meta decision. I think it's worth spending a point to upgrade one Glaive to Vessery, though.

This squadron would be awesome, but I have a strong suspicion that Glaive squadron will be 34 points. +1 point over an Onyx squadron for an additional 3 PS and (presumably) an EPT would render Onyx squadron completely obsolete. For what it counts, I hope you are right, as I would love to have the points in a 3x Glaive squadron to add in MK II engines along with VI/Crackshot.

Yeah, pretty certain Glaive will be 34 points. Assuming that's the case, THE triple x-7 defender list will be:

Vessery w/ x-7 + crack shot = 34

2 Glaives w/ x-7 + crack shot = 33 x 2

100

There may be other triple defenders that are competitive, but this will be the most obvious and likely easiest to use effectively. No room for TIE mk2, but that's a minor quibble, honestly.

I didn't even notice the Mk2 engines in the previous post. They seem pretty unnecessary, honestly.

Aside from the Defender Crack Shot Swarm (Meteor Shower was what I suggested for the squad name a ways upthread), the only other tripD list I really like is:

Onyx, TIE/D, Ion

Onyx, TIE/D, Ion

Onyx, x7

100 points

It doesn't really hold a candle to Meteor Shower (I still like that name, can we make it a thing?).

I was thinking, if missiles and alpha strikes really do become a thing, then X7 with Hull Upgrade could worth playing with?

I am imagining something like this:

1. Onyx Tie Defender, X7, Hull Upgrade, 33
2. Onyx Tie Defender, X7, Hull Upgrade, 33
3. Onyx Tie Defender, X7, Hull Upgrade, 33

That is 21 Hit Points at pilot skill 7 with evade. Have fun chewing through that!

Alternatively, The Onyx can become Deltas to fit Vessery with some elit pilot talent of your choice. All ships will still have a hull upgrade!

The "DVD". It WILL be a thing, with Ruthless or Outmaneuver. Trust me on this one, I have foreseen it. :-)

Delta (TIE-D, Ion Cannon)

Vessery (Outmaneuver, TIE-D, Tractor Beam)

Delta (TIE x 7)

So, does everyone just want to max out on Defenders? No one likes to build a bit more of a balanced list? Didn't someone win Worlds with one? Seems to me that if you have all of one type, then if something can beat it....it really beats it hard. Why push all of the same ship in a list when you can go balanced?