Those are as close to guaranteed to remove a ship on the first pass as you can get in X-Wing. Maybe they have potential, but it might not be enough. Lets hope it is, for the Bomber!

Assuming it's flown by an idiot who gets in arc of all 4 bombers, a Falcon could reasonably be one-rounded. No green dice involved thanks to Crack Shot.

Thinking about the triple x7 list with Crack Shot-

What about taking the 3 biggest debris fields and Wired instead of Crack Shot? You just run with whatever stress you pixk up. You get lightly modified attacks all the time, and lightly modified defenses against every shot, plus the Evade. It's sort of half an action on offense and 1.5+ actions on defense.

I haven't tried that yet. My concern there is basically giving up barrel roll. Don't need to BR often, but when you do, it tends to be clutch...

I have been running the Triple Crackshot build with the three smallest debris fields.

Somewhat ironically, in the 3 games I have played with it, the only time I lost a ship was when a 3 hull Glaive ran over a debris field (planned), rolled a crit, and drew console fire (not planned!). As he had 4 stress on him already, it was an inevitable but very slow death. It was actually quite hilarious.

I saw MJ's numbers on the other thread, and they are a bit concerning for game balance. I will be eagerly watching tournament results when the expansion goes legal, though. The Defenders fly pretty differently from other 30+ point ships, and I wonder how many will take the plunge. Certainly more now than 4 days ago.

But this is how it SHOULD be!!! Tie Defenders are the best of the best of the best of the best of the Imperial Navy's anti-fighter arsenal. Until now, they were a sad joke. It's about time people got to fear them!

On the other hand, the other factions are getting more than their fair share of new toys. Futhermore, when was the last time Imperials won worlds again? I would also argue that Poe with health regeneration is still more efficient than a named Tie Defender in a one on one fight.

1. No. You never want to introduce power creep to the game, unless that is part of your business model to compel your customers to keep buying new ships.

2. Don't leave Poe for last. As Paul explained on his recent podcast with us, all the games he lost (not at Worlds obviously) with his list was when Poe got killed first.

Killing Poe is also easiest when you have several ships left since he still only rolls 2 greens even if they're quite heavily modified. He's also either regenerating or moderately decent at escaping arcs (r2d2 vs. bb8) but not both so he can be focused pretty effectively if you work at it.

Majorjuggler, this game has been saturated in power creep since the pre-nerf Phantom days. We have a turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll with an HLC as a turret (that's about to get an entirely green dial, because hey, that's not broken). Look at how Corran with double tap and FCS works, or an Aggressor with cannon gunner and FCS works.

Jousting is dead, this is why normal jousting ships like the Defender and X-Wing need help. This is why the Y-Wing/HWK got TLT, TIEs got Crack Squadron, X-Wings got IA, and Defenders get free evades or second shots. So that when it's your 60 points of neo-jousters vs. your opponent's fat turret, you have a chance instead of just autolosing like with 5 Academies vs. Fat Han.

They're power creeping everything else to Acewing/Turretwing levels so that it has a chance.

[name=ficklegreendice" post="1943690" timestamp="1450465509]

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

You know what I love most about Crackshot? When I get their ship down to one health. My last TIE Fighter attacks, and rolls one hit. They roll defense, and roll one evade. They feel relieved. But that TIE has the last unspent Crackshot.

They're so crushed, it's beautiful.

It's even better with Omega L's juke,

Because they get no mods, they're PRAYING for a natural evade

And then you cruelly rip it away

This fighter pilot is my kind of scum

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

Sounds like marriage!

I've only been married for 13 days years but it's pretty neat so far at least I'm not dead...

That's a glimpse at your future self speaking

Kidding, marriage is awesome! Congrats by the way!

One thing I note in major juggler's numbers is that while triple X7 Deltas are the best jousters in the game, they dont come close to giving a nice round point total. The best you're gonna get is 3 defenders and a Tie Bomber.

Also, the resonable assumptions about the evade are likely to break down in a defender-dominated meta. Anything from Birds and the B (Ten Numb with a tractor and 3 TLT HWKs) to 4 HLC SCYKs are liable to throw off the calculations.

One thing I note in major juggler's numbers is that while triple X7 Deltas are the best jousters in the game, they dont come close to giving a nice round point total. The best you're gonna get is 3 defenders and a Tie Bomber.

I think that's why the PS 6 Defender Swarm is going to be strong. It's tough enough to soak damage from a lot of elite, high PS lists, but powerful enough to get PS kills on massed firepower low PS lists (not to mention the huge jousting advantage the white K provides). And it slots beautifully into 100 points.

One thing I note in major juggler's numbers is that while triple X7 Deltas are the best jousters in the game, they dont come close to giving a nice round point total. The best you're gonna get is 3 defenders and a Tie Bomber.

I think that's why the PS 6 Defender Swarm is going to be strong. It's tough enough to soak damage from a lot of elite, high PS lists, but powerful enough to get PS kills on massed firepower low PS lists (not to mention the huge jousting advantage the white K provides). And it slots beautifully into 100 points.

It beat Blairbunke in my first game trying it. He was flying:

Poe + Juke + AT + Comm Relay + R5-P9

Kyle + TLT + Jan Ors crew + Moldy Crow

Biggs + R4-D6 + I.A.

Kyle built up a nice focus stack. I killed Biggs and then Poe 1-2 turns later. He conceded. I only lost 4 shields.

That squad is just a wrecking ball. Are you pretty much formation flying to concentrate fire and streamroll, or is there some more complex maneuvering going on in the initial turns?

That squad is just a wrecking ball. Are you pretty much formation flying to concentrate fire and streamroll, or is there some more complex maneuvering going on in the initial turns?

The goal is to generally stay close together (X-wing fundamentals) but leave enough room to pull off different maneuvers. If your ships are close but at different angles then generally they can all 4K past the opposing squad, through each other, and all land in different spots. And keep Vessery in the back turtle mode with focus and evade, he needs to be the least appetizing target to shoot at.

I'm still a relative n00b on executing it correctly, so occasionally I'll misjudge and bump myself pulling a variety of different 3's from all the ships. It happened once in the opening combat round for my second game.

The nice thing is that you can gamble on the 4k, no problem. Maybe you get blocked, but you still get you evade token, and you can always do it next turn. Something fun to do is after ships start moving you see that the K-turn is a bad idea, and you barrel roll with a ship to block your own K-turn to keep the turning ship in the right direction. It's only ever come up once for me, but it was pretty sweet.

One thing I note in major juggler's numbers is that while triple X7 Deltas are the best jousters in the game, they dont come close to giving a nice round point total. The best you're gonna get is 3 defenders and a Tie Bomber.

I think that's why the PS 6 Defender Swarm is going to be strong. It's tough enough to soak damage from a lot of elite, high PS lists, but powerful enough to get PS kills on massed firepower low PS lists (not to mention the huge jousting advantage the white K provides). And it slots beautifully into 100 points.

It beat Blairbunke in my first game trying it. He was flying:

Poe + Juke + AT + Comm Relay + R5-P9

Kyle + TLT + Jan Ors crew + Moldy Crow

Biggs + R4-D6 + I.A.

Kyle built up a nice focus stack. I killed Biggs and then Poe 1-2 turns later. He conceded. I only lost 4 shields.

It sounds like a lopsided win, though the firepower output of his list is very weak imo though I know he's a good player. I mean, with the limited damage he did, I wonder if there's a case to be made you could have won this with two Onyx and Vessery w/Crack Shot?

The opposing list isn't much less sustained firepower than the Defender list. 2 3-dice attacks and a TLT vs 3 3-dice attacks. The Crack Shots surely matter, but Biggs and regeneration count for something as well.

Majorjuggler, this game has been saturated in power creep since the pre-nerf Phantom days. We have a turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll with an HLC as a turret (that's about to get an entirely green dial, because hey, that's not broken). Look at how Corran with double tap and FCS works, or an Aggressor with cannon gunner and FCS works.

Jousting is dead, this is why normal jousting ships like the Defender and X-Wing need help. This is why the Y-Wing/HWK got TLT, TIEs got Crack Squadron, X-Wings got IA, and Defenders get free evades or second shots. So that when it's your 60 points of neo-jousters vs. your opponent's fat turret, you have a chance instead of just autolosing like with 5 Academies vs. Fat Han.

They're power creeping everything else to Acewing/Turretwing levels so that it has a chance.

[name=ficklegreendice" post="1943690" timestamp="1450465509]

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

You know what I love most about Crackshot? When I get their ship down to one health. My last TIE Fighter attacks, and rolls one hit. They roll defense, and roll one evade. They feel relieved. But that TIE has the last unspent Crackshot.

They're so crushed, it's beautiful.

5 academies should lose to Han. It's thematic!

That being said, I'm more excited about the Imp Vets than anything else coming out in the next wave and a half...and I already have those two ships!

Majorjuggler, this game has been saturated in power creep since the pre-nerf Phantom days. We have a turret that can large ship boost and barrel roll with an HLC as a turret (that's about to get an entirely green dial, because hey, that's not broken). Look at how Corran with double tap and FCS works, or an Aggressor with cannon gunner and FCS works.

Jousting is dead, this is why normal jousting ships like the Defender and X-Wing need help. This is why the Y-Wing/HWK got TLT, TIEs got Crack Squadron, X-Wings got IA, and Defenders get free evades or second shots. So that when it's your 60 points of neo-jousters vs. your opponent's fat turret, you have a chance instead of just autolosing like with 5 Academies vs. Fat Han.

They're power creeping everything else to Acewing/Turretwing levels so that it has a chance.

[name=ficklegreendice" post="1943690" timestamp="1450465509]

there are no guarantees when it comes to green dice, other than at least one person is coming out unsatisfied

You know what I love most about Crackshot? When I get their ship down to one health. My last TIE Fighter attacks, and rolls one hit. They roll defense, and roll one evade. They feel relieved. But that TIE has the last unspent Crackshot.

They're so crushed, it's beautiful.

5 academies should lose to Han. It's thematic!

That being said, I'm more excited about the Imp Vets than anything else coming out in the next wave and a half...and I already have those two ships!

Only because they were ordered to let him escape.

It sounds like a lopsided win, though the firepower output of his list is very weak imo though I know he's a good player. I mean, with the limited damage he did, I wonder if there's a case to be made you could have won this with two Onyx and Vessery w/Crack Shot?

I just replayed the match log. I probably still would have won, but it would have been way closer. Biggs and Poe would be dead, but Vessery would be at 2 hull, Glaive 2 would have lost an extra shield (1 remaining), and Glaive 1 would have been at 1-3 hull instead of full health. Kyle Katarn was still alive at this point and possibly could have killed Glaive #1 before it got to shoot, making it a slightly more "fair" 2v1. Ther other Defenders were slightly out of position, so he basically would have gotten a free round of shooting from Kyle.

Aren't Glaive and Kyle the same PS? Was there a VI in there that I missed?

The opposing list isn't much less sustained firepower than the Defender list. 2 3-dice attacks and a TLT vs 3 3-dice attacks. The Crack Shots surely matter, but Biggs and regeneration count for something as well.

Not much, but the Defenders were actually very well suited to take on that level of firepower. Biggs does count for something but killing him is getting three dice off the table. All I was pointing out was that while it's certainly an interesting anecdote, I wondered how much difference the title made because while I think they are very good (and maybe even too good) I don't think they're the difference between a dominating victory vs. an excellent player and losing.

It sounds like a lopsided win, though the firepower output of his list is very weak imo though I know he's a good player. I mean, with the limited damage he did, I wonder if there's a case to be made you could have won this with two Onyx and Vessery w/Crack Shot?

I just replayed the match log. I probably still would have won, but it would have been way closer. Biggs and Poe would be dead, but Vessery would be at 2 hull, Glaive 2 would have lost an extra shield (1 remaining), and Glaive 1 would have been at 1-3 hull instead of full health. Kyle Katarn was still alive at this point and possibly could have killed Glaive #1 before it got to shoot, making it a slightly more "fair" 2v1. Ther other Defenders were slightly out of position, so he basically would have gotten a free round of shooting from Kyle.

Thanks for looking back and making the comparison. I appreciate the more analytical analysis and as mentioned in my comment to Biophysical, wanted to see what the difference between the title really made.

In the end, it's interesting to me that, if I'm summarizing right, it was the difference between very efficient ships/list (new defenders with titles) tabling an opponent (100-0) to what would have been a decisive win (100-32) with an inefficient list (pre-title defenders).

Just played a game using vessery with x7 title nothing else. I thought the /D would be the better of the two but the durability and action economy of the x7 was insane. Only did 2 maneuvers the entire match lower than speed 3 btw and that was to close it out. Its literally like a regen droid.

Aren't Glaive and Kyle the same PS? Was there a VI in there that I missed?

That was going over the hypothetical example if I had PS3 instead of PS6.

Aren't Glaive and Kyle the same PS? Was there a VI in there that I missed?

That was going over the hypothetical example if I had PS3 instead of PS6.

Ah, missed that somehow.

Just played a game using vessery with x7 title nothing else. I thought the /D would be the better of the two but the durability and action economy of the x7 was insane. Only did 2 maneuvers the entire match lower than speed 3 btw and that was to close it out. Its literally like a regen droid.

Yeah, the question of these 2 titles is a really interesting one. The TIE/D title initially grabbed me really hard, because it works on ships that run more similarly to the ones that I already run. The x7 title, though, effectively makes the Ion Cannon 5 points and -1 Evade most turns. That's a huge swing! But so is getting an extra control shot every turn. It's a really interesting squad construction question.

I see the x7 as the choice when you are backing up other aces. But the TIE/D as the go to when you are the core. I've yet to try either, so YMMV.

I think it might be more complex than that. The x7 is definitely the title to take if you need something to be durable, and that matches well with a support "center of mass" ship that an ace can operate around. That supports your assertion. Something like Rexler Brath, Predator, x7, and Engine Upgrade is 42 points, though, and acts more like a typical ace. It has more offense and hit points than most Imperial Aces, has solid maneuverability, a lot of toughness compared to the average Imp Ace, and is far more Action Independent, giving it a whole different range of options around asteroids and in blocking situations. Of course it's PS8 and 7 points more than Fel, but it makes for an interesting option.