Perhaps it matters more for me because part of what I love is trying new lists. I have no doubt the new generics will be far superior to other generics but I can't use a ps 6 as a blocker like I can a ps 1. The only reason I don't run more defenders is the tendency to die but the x7 fixes that. I'd totally run multiples of that at ps 1. Crazy fun even if it's not competitively

Perhaps it matters more for me because part of what I love is trying new lists. I have no doubt the new generics will be far superior to other generics but I can't use a ps 6 as a blocker like I can a ps 1. The only reason I don't run more defenders is the tendency to die but the x7 fixes that. I'd totally run multiples of that at ps 1. Crazy fun even if it's not competitively

Part of it is that unlike Interceptors, which are almost pure arc-dodging Aces, Defenders have a place at rock-bottom-generic prices, both as a blocker and as a jouster of sorts, where the price matters more than the reactivity.

A pair of PS1 Defenders would be a great buy - but you can't do it with one of each blister. Even proxying is more unlikely, as most folks do insist you have the right bits of cardboard...

I don't think the old generic defenders are worth it in the current environment, anymore

PS 1 just seems to suck when TLTs can swiss cheese them before their activation and they don't get any extra dice mods on their own

I honestly think the Glaives will just completely replace them thanks to the ept slot and how well Juke combos with Tie/x7. Greater reliability and higher PS to mulch TLTs (and even the TLT counters, such as crackswarm and juke FOs; matching aggressors) just make them seem far more reliable

that, or they look ******* awesome in red

I wouldn't underestimate their speed. Especially with the X7 title. Not to mention K-turn with an Evade and a Focue/TL/Barrel Roll. Also, 6 HP behind 3 Agi can be an awful lot for a TLT to chew through.

28 to 30 points for only a normally modded 3 dice attack on a PS 1-3 doesn't strike me as worth it anymore

juke on a PS 6 with 3 dice, though, now that's pretty special

And once again:

Blocking. Blocking is good.

I must have a defender problem. I have three already, and then I ran out and bought two TIE Punishers to have enough copies of Twin Ion Engine Mk. II for all of them. Now I want two copies of Imperial Veterans to give those Delta pilots TIE/D and really lay into those rebel dogs with our ion cannons. Once your Ion Cannon-equipped TIE/D K- turns behind a TLT Y-wing, it's game over - that wishbone won't get another shot the rest of its short, miserable life.

Defenders were never worth it.

PS1 generic on a ship that was allegedly only given to "elite" pilots was terrible design.

The lowest generic needs to be Pilot skill 3 with an EPT at 25 points.

They need to errata away every old Defender card and replace them with versions 7 points cheaper.

..

3 PS 1 Defenders with Ion Cannons and double tap in arc

does NOT equal

4 PS 2 Y-wings with double tap turrets and 1 point Astromech droids.

The Y-wings can destroy 1/3rd of the Defenders before they get a shot off.

..

If there were 25 point PS 3 Generics, you could field 2 TIE/x7 Defenders naked and 2 TIE/D Defenders with Flechette cannons.

4 PS3 ships with 3hull 3shield (24 hitpoints total) all with 3 attack dice each, 2 of which can get free evades sometimes, and 2 of which get an extra 1 point of damage + stress

is a lot closer to

4 PS2 ships with 5hull 3shield (32 hitpoints total) all with double tapping 3 attack dice (limit of 1 damage per hit) and green maneuvers from Droids.

The edge might go to the Defenders because shooting first and possibility to do a lot of damage at range 1. The average hits from 4 attack dice is 2 and the Y-wings have less defense, but they can use green maneuvers to clear stress, and Flechette cannon rules won't allow them to double stress a target.

This is all a hog's dream.

I'll probably buy the pack for the Bomber options and the models (really fun to have them in games of Force and Destiny),

but I'll keep fielding the same named TIEs that serve me well since wave 1.

The bare god darn minimum Defenders need is a 25 point ship that is either PS2 with an EPT or PS3 with or without one.

In MY opinion, and what the heck ever. FFG is just in this mindset where they refuse to errata pilot cards, so they fix stuff

with upgrades, so I've got a stack of 0 pt cards to put on all my ships to fix problems that everyone knows is there.

I'm off to watch cartoons and drink vodka.

They did the same with imp aces

The assumption is you'll never use a generic defender that isn't the glaive ever again because it'll be super economically priced for ps 6 + ept

The bombers idk why, but you can always get just one Vet pack for a named pilot and then go triple scims

It is a shame really. The only way to get a Full TIE Interceptor squadron is to still pick up 5 TIE interceptor packs.

However in this case I can give it a pass because these are not two of the same ships like Imperial Aces but instead two different ships. Yeah why do the Rebels get all their cannon fodder pilots and Imperials don't when they are the cannon fodder faction (well scum feedback deadmans swarm could also work). But unlike Imperial Aces this set will likely not leave you with extra models you can't field in an 100 point list where Imperial Aces did give you models you can't place all down on the tournament mat.

well see, these guys are elite fodder

no one spends that many points on elite fodder. Still back to imperial Aces the most TIE interceptors you can have is 5. So you would think getting 2 Imperial Aces and a TIE interceptor pack would settle it, but since the Aces pack don't have the cheap Alpha and Avenger Squadron Pilots you end up with an extra model you can't field in a standard 100 point list.

In this current pack you won't have any extra models. If you only have two TIE Defenders buying this pack won't give you two defenders. Likewise if you have two bombers. I can almost see buying a double of this pack instead of doubling the TIE Defender expansion pack. The only issue is that you would be stuck with extra TIE Defender Titles. Unlike the Refit which allows you to squeeze in another A-wing the x7 doesn't allow you to fit in a 4th TIE Defender.

Looking at the cards in Imperial Veterans, it looks like they aren't planning to include the older generics for the Defender and the bomber. Am I the only one dismayed by that? I remember when imperial Aces came out with no pilot under ps 4. Yeah it thematically made sense but it limited your builds (had one friend explicitly looking forward to a 5 alpha build and was upset that he couldn't).

Likewise I was glad to see that they had learned their lesson with Rebel Aces. But...Now it seems they have reverted back and I don't like that. I'd love to put two deltas together with the x7 title but... then I'd have to buy *another* defender leaving one of them out in the cold.

Am I the only one bothered this?

3 PS 1 Defenders with Ion Cannons and double tap in arc

does NOT equal

4 PS 2 Y-wings with double tap turrets and 1 point Astromech droids.

The Y-wings can destroy 1/3rd of the Defenders before they get a shot off.

You haven't seen me roll green dice Seriously, if you lock down three of them, and k-turn behind them, they will never shoot you again. Here, PS 1 is a boon because you can bump right into the back of them before they activate, then they 1-forward from ion, and your in the safe zone at range 1. Rinse and repeat. Dead Y-wings for everybody!

You're not much of a veteran at a low PS.

well, I did say it makes sense thematically :-)

Yes you are the only one bothered.

:lol:

3 PS 1 Defenders with Ion Cannons and double tap in arc

does NOT equal

4 PS 2 Y-wings with double tap turrets and 1 point Astromech droids.

The Y-wings can destroy 1/3rd of the Defenders before they get a shot off.

You haven't seen me roll green dice Seriously, if you lock down three of them, and k-turn behind them, they will never shoot you again. Here, PS 1 is a boon because you can bump right into the back of them before they activate, then they 1-forward from ion, and your in the safe zone at range 1. Rinse and repeat. Dead Y-wings for everybody!

The white K-turn is an asset, but one the Defenders pay too much for.

All the Y-wings have to do is make a reasonable guess that the 3 Defenders will try to use their best maneuver, so they can make green turns instead of getting blocked by flying straight. A game can happen with many unpredictable moments, and the barrel rolls after a k-turn are some of the strongest positioning tools any ship has. But just don't expect players to fly their turrets where you want them to.

But just don't expect players to fly their turrets where you want them to.

...but that's exactly what the ion cannon let's you do -- place the enemy right where I want them. You have to ion them on the way in, and then flip behind them and continue the assault. Could you lose a defender? Sure. Could you survive the exchange? It's possible. I think it will be fun.

If you want the older pilots, gonna have to fork out for them. I always kind of assumed that most people who were interested in flying the ship would have them already.

Always worth probing the secondary market though for cards.