Vess actually isn't overpriced

he's the only defender worth his points pre-fix, i.t.o jousting value (assuming his ability is enabled)

His craft is overpriced like the others, its his ability that is so good that makes ppl think he isn't overpriced.

And now with the /D I think he will make it to the competitive tables (while I played with him on tournaments .... my success rate wasn't that glorious)

I understand the reasoning, but I legitimately would not be surprised about a 33 point Glaive

this is simply because we got a sorta generic food chain, except it's worth of a sandwich between TLTs and PS 4 Crackshots (or Juke FOs)

and there's no real room in there for Ps 1 or 3, as they'll get devoured by TLTs and cracksquad respectively (Esp the defenders with all their faliable, crackshotable green dice)

Aces of course lie outside this range because they're so play dependent

this seems to be sorta reflected at worlds as well

simply put, I wouldn't be surprised at the complete replacement of Deltas and Onyxs as the current environment seems to promise to do that anyway

of course, at PS 6 (> 4; = Aggressors) the Glaive promises to be quite a useful beast regardless of how much he costs (as long as it's not above 34)

I think you could be right. Onyx does literally see no table time, and even at 31 points will probably continue doung so.

Let's face it Glaives at 33 would be 1 point under the current logic for Defender pricing, but then the defender was horribly overpriced. So what if it's 33 points. This won't break the game and if you could take 3 with Juke it would be really worthwile.

I think a 33 point generic with an EPT is very much needed for this ship. This will give you the ability to run 3 with a 2 point EPT or 7 total points for upgrades.

Here's hoping A) Glaives have an EPT, and B) they cost no more than 33 points. I have my doubts about the cost though...

I'm pretty sure they are going to be 34 points. Compared to an onyx, there's no way they are getting +3 pilot skill AND the elite slot for just 1 point more...

Also, I'm hoping that they learned from Imperial Aces (where Lorrir was priced higher than the royal guard and never sees play) and they will put Countess Ryad (with her likely questionable pilot ability but no EPT) at 33 points.

Hey, just look at a generic Phantom and all the benefits it got at 5 points cheaper than a generic Defender... so never say never. They owe the Defender 2 years of absence from the table, and 33 points would not at all be broken. Sad for the Onyx and also quite unfair for it, but hey, the ship and especially a generic version of it being played at all is far more important than balancing one generic versus the other. And why not have the Countess sitting at 32 or 34 points, after all we have no idea what she does!

Vess actually isn't overpriced

he's the only defender worth his points pre-fix, i.t.o jousting value (assuming his ability is enabled)

At least he is pretty much the only one i have played. Rexler is just too many Eggs in one basket and his ability too hard to trigger. While Vesserys is easier to trigger and in my book also plain better compared to Rexler. Also Vess doesn't need a lot of upgrades to be efficient. VI and TIE MkII, and good to go. After the fix for 35 points instead of 37, or for 36 With Juke and MkII. Very reasonable.

But he still was overpriced a bit. x7 title will not make him underpriced either, just a bit more realistic compared to what he can achieve i think!

Rexler is just too many Eggs in one basket and his ability too hard to trigger. While Vesserys is easier to trigger and in my book also plain better compared to Rexler. Also Vess doesn't need a lot of upgrades to be efficient. VI and TIE MkII, and good to go. After the fix for 35 points instead of 37, or for 36 With Juke and MkII. Very reasonable.

But he still was overpriced a bit. x7 title will not make him underpriced either, just a bit more realistic compared to what he can achieve i think!

I've said this about both Defender pilots. They would have been GREAT abilities in a Rebel list but, at the time they came out, the TL is not a common action for the Empire and there are very few ways to hand out focus tokens or other actions.

33 Points is the most that Glaive can be if you still want some fun 3 Defender builds.

2 /x7s with a 1 point EPT

1 /D with an ion cannon

stuff like that.

Even the 1 point discard EPTs could be a good fit on an /x7.

Rexler is just too many Eggs in one basket and his ability too hard to trigger. While Vesserys is easier to trigger and in my book also plain better compared to Rexler. Also Vess doesn't need a lot of upgrades to be efficient. VI and TIE MkII, and good to go. After the fix for 35 points instead of 37, or for 36 With Juke and MkII. Very reasonable.

But he still was overpriced a bit. x7 title will not make him underpriced either, just a bit more realistic compared to what he can achieve i think!

I've said this about both Defender pilots. They would have been GREAT abilities in a Rebel list but, at the time they came out, the TL is not a common action for the Empire and there are very few ways to hand out focus tokens or other actions.

With Vessery however it's not a problem. I ran him with other PS 6 or 8 (with VI Vessery) pilots that would want to TL anyway:

- With Chiraneau who gives a **** about focus and will always TL if he doesn't boost (and yes i had Weapons engineer on him too)

- Or with Echo with FCS.

- Then with Advanceds like Juno that would TL because of Advanced Targeting Computer

- Now i have tried him with Redline even if that guy is PS 7 and that also works super good because of FCS

That allows you total flexibility because you can actually very often benefit from the Focus/TL which makes primary weapon shots from Vessery deadly, and HLC fire absolutely devastating.

With Tie/D you can potentially act like if you had a free FCS on you as longa s a foreign TL is on the enemy.

I mean he was not bad before, but he was not the pinnacle of competitive either, but NOW, he will be really something to be feared!

The Defender is fixed. At last I can die happy.

CR didn't have any drawbacks...

...other than taking up the missile slot...

I don't consider that a drawback. Missiles don't make an A-Wing what it is, their speed and maneuverability do. But having secondary cannons and ordnance was what made the Defender dangerous. And in this game it's what allows them to fill the role they occupy best. That being said, I can see trying to make some generics work with it just to try them out, but not likely to be the ones we've got now. I'll have to see the new ones, and see if they've made the price better.

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so someone may have already mentioned this. I noticed one card is called Long Range Scanners, and seems to allow you TL something at range 3 and beyond, but not at range 1-2. if that's true, then suddenly this gives Vessery an amazing advantage if someone flying with him can use it to take TLs (something previously only possible with ST-321 in play).

I'll wait for the new pilots before I ss judgement, but these abilities do nothing for a predictable dial and not enough for the cost. 28 for a base model is still too much, and they still need the twin-ion to have any hope of clearing stress.

Though one good thing about the x7 that just occurred to me is that, even if someone blocks your predictable destress maneuver (assuming you don't have mk II) you won't be totally naked because the collision skips your action step, but not the free evade action gained by the title. Gives you a slightly better chance to avoid death by firing squad.

I like HLC on the unique. Rexlar for all the crits. And Vessery is just nasty with the free TL and a Focus.

I would rather spend 4 fewer points, probably do the same amount of damage, probably more, and know where my target is going to be next round.

Pretty much this. Rex + Predator + Ion Cannon + /D title is 43 points before defensive upgrades. If a control shot starts hitting, he can rush into range 1 and get a 4 dice primary + the control shot. Brutal against low AGI stuff, token sapping against high AGI stuff that can't afford the ion token. The IC can also just be good for dropping a shield to make it easier to activate Rex's ability. He's going to be mean with this setup.

You do have to be a little careful, as anything you Ion has to go slower than you're capable of.

True, but if you can engineer it to be hitting them in the side, you can just abuse the 4-K turn to keep them in arc.

Yeah, I know that lack of a 1 straight is bad for this in theory, but for me in practice it's been okay because most of the time my Ion Cannon Defenders have Outmaneuver or Predator and fire the ion cannons at range 3 to prevent the enemy from getting that extra evade. So speaking for my Defender style specifically, this is pretty much only a good thing (can't speak for the rest of the player base though).

Though one good thing about the x7 that just occurred to me is that, even if someone blocks your predictable destress maneuver (assuming you don't have mk II) you won't be totally naked because the collision skips your action step, but not the free evade action gained by the title.

The title doesn't grant a free evade action, it just grants an evade token. This means you get that evade even if you are flying around with a stack of stress that would make Tycho proud.

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so someone may have already mentioned this. I noticed one card is called Long Range Scanners, and seems to allow you TL something at range 3 and beyond, but not at range 1-2. if that's true, then suddenly this gives Vessery an amazing advantage if someone flying with him can use it to take TLs (something previously only possible with ST-321 in play).

Exactly right. Best Imperial mounts for it are a TIE Bomber (Unfortunately, not one that's a TIE Shuttle at the same time...), or, a little suprisingly, the Slave 1.

Naked Bounty Hunters got a subtle little boost with this 0-pt card, because it lets them up their 3-die alpha strike in the rounds ahead, and then Focus/Evade once actually in range. And with Vessery, they'll make fantastic target spotters without this being the only reason they're in the list.

Lot of pages so this may have been mentioned already... Apologies if that's the case.

I noticed TIE\D doesn't require both attacks be against the same ship. So you can potentially ion your next target then kill off your current target with primaries.

Lot of pages so this may have been mentioned already... Apologies if that's the case.

I noticed TIE\D doesn't require both attacks be against the same ship. So you can potentially ion your next target then kill off your current target with primaries.

Yeah, this is one of the stronger aspects of TIE/D builds. You might have to gamble a little bit, but not much.

I think even that

a single Delta + /D + Ion now is a real danger to any small ship.

a pair of Deltas + /D + Ion now is a real danger to any large ship.

a trio of Deltas + /D + Ion now is a real danger to any huge ship.

Just like they meant to be.

Something else that might be a great danger to a Huge ship is Defender Maarek + adv. homing + IC, with whatever other titles and upgrades you see fit to add. He can administer his choice of critical cards to a section of a Huge ship before any shields have been removed at all. This, done early and with a nice selection of crits, could be absolutely devastating to any epic list that makes use of its Tantive or transport. Can you imagine sucking a crew out into space or depleting all of a section's energy with the first shot you fire? As far as I can tell, it's the single most surefire way to trigger Stele's ability in the game. Ever since Farlander came out, I've been lamenting their early misuse of Maarek. Today, those tables finally turn.

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so someone may have already mentioned this. I noticed one card is called Long Range Scanners, and seems to allow you TL something at range 3 and beyond, but not at range 1-2. if that's true, then suddenly this gives Vessery an amazing advantage if someone flying with him can use it to take TLs (something previously only possible with ST-321 in play).

Exactly right. Best Imperial mounts for it are a TIE Bomber (Unfortunately, not one that's a TIE Shuttle at the same time...), or, a little suprisingly, the Slave 1.

Naked Bounty Hunters got a subtle little boost with this 0-pt card, because it lets them up their 3-die alpha strike in the rounds ahead, and then Focus/Evade once actually in range. And with Vessery, they'll make fantastic target spotters without this being the only reason they're in the list.

Also, I know losing TL at close range seems like a loss, but really, realistically, who is using TL on their Defenders instead of Focus to try to boost attack or defense once they're in the thick of it anyway? (because I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is "someone who's about to lose their Defender".)

Though one good thing about the x7 that just occurred to me is that, even if someone blocks your predictable destress maneuver (assuming you don't have mk II) you won't be totally naked because the collision skips your action step, but not the free evade action gained by the title.

The title doesn't grant a free evade action, it just grants an evade token. This means you get that evade even if you are flying around with a stack of stress that would make Tycho proud.

Yeah, I noticed that later on, sorry. I also thought it was for 3, 4, or 5 STRAIGHT maneuvers, not just maneuvers. So that erases what I said earlier about it being useless to me. It could be really fun to try the lower PS guys with this. Or better yet, one Defender with each Title so you can watch your opponent have an aneurysm trying to figure out which one of your Defenders they hate more! The one they can't hit late-game, or the one that's gonna kill them before they get that far!

Lot of pages so this may have been mentioned already... Apologies if that's the case.

I noticed TIE\D doesn't require both attacks be against the same ship. So you can potentially ion your next target then kill off your current target with primaries.

Yeah, this is one of the stronger aspects of TIE/D builds. You might have to gamble a little bit, but not much.

And unlike many abilities that allow double tapping or multi-target attacks, you needn't hit with the first one in order to trigger the second. Screw you, Corran, I'm too impatient to wait for the End Phase! I want my double tap NOW! Hahaha!

Haven't read the entire thread yet, so someone may have already mentioned this. I noticed one card is called Long Range Scanners, and seems to allow you TL something at range 3 and beyond, but not at range 1-2. if that's true, then suddenly this gives Vessery an amazing advantage if someone flying with him can use it to take TLs (something previously only possible with ST-321 in play).

Exactly right. Best Imperial mounts for it are a TIE Bomber (Unfortunately, not one that's a TIE Shuttle at the same time...), or, a little suprisingly, the Slave 1.

Naked Bounty Hunters got a subtle little boost with this 0-pt card, because it lets them up their 3-die alpha strike in the rounds ahead, and then Focus/Evade once actually in range. And with Vessery, they'll make fantastic target spotters without this being the only reason they're in the list.

Also, I know losing TL at close range seems like a loss, but really, realistically, who is using TL on their Defenders instead of Focus to try to boost attack or defense once they're in the thick of it anyway? (because I'm pretty sure the answer to that question is "someone who's about to lose their Defender".)

Now that the title give you a free evade when you move at speed 3+, taking a TL is actually not a bad thing once in a while.... prepare for the eventual F+TL. I did it tonight in 2 games using proxy. I was taking TL with my 2 Deltas to tag for Vessery and was okay with it, since I also had an Evade token to protect me. I never really TLed with my Defenders, but with the X7 title, I did it quite often.

I do like the X7 for a nice budget 38 pt Rexlar with Predator.

I do like the X7 for a nice budget 38 pt Rexlar with Predator.

I always wanted to try Rex with Lone Wolf. Never got the chance. Have any Rex Lovers noticed a big difference?

I do like the X7 for a nice budget 38 pt Rexlar with Predator.

I always wanted to try Rex with Lone Wolf. Never got the chance. Have any Rex Lovers noticed a big difference?

I'm personally in love with the Lonewolf EPT, so around here, Rex with X7 and Lonewolf will be a thing!

The thing with Lonewolf is that it needs some planning. A Barrel roll or Boost here and there (and not just from the pilot with Lonewolf) to make sure that you keep your Lonewolf benefit. It's definetly not for everybody, I have some friends that hate that EPT, but when played right, it is highly rewarding. But if you prefer to go the safe road, Predator is better. Added benefit that you can roll the eyeball and get 2 reroll vs PS1-2 (effective when going against TLTs Y-Wing or BBBBZ, swarms these days prefer to go at PS3 to counter TLTs). My personal opinion: if you're in a 3- ship team, go with Lonewolf; in a 4+ team, you'll get more milleage with Predator.

My personal opinion: if you're in a 3- ship team, go with Lonewolf;

Heh. Hehheh. Hehhhehhehehehehehhhh… You could say that.

One of my personal favorites is Red Eye Flight.

Rex ol' buddy + HLC + Predator

Royal Guard TIE + Outmaneuver

Royal Guard TIE + Outmaneuver

I fly them in a pincer, and it's amazing how often people ignore the Interceptors that have outmaneuver on them. Which is a great way to lose a game, I've found. They get so blinded by the presence of the Defender, they forget that they can easily end up dealing with losing 6-8 HP from two ships in a single combat phase. B's and Y's were heavy in my local meta, because their combination of unique pilots and turrets provided a decent counter to the ever present threat of Soontir + RGT + PTL + targeting computer + Shield Upgrade. But I was thinking that, by losing Predator and taking Lone Wolf, I could trade attack stability for some defense, and with the release of the TIE Punisher, that leaves 1 extra point for TIE mk II.

A double tapping Maarek may finally make marksmanship worth the points, as it will mod both his attacks.

It really shows how few people gave the defender a chance with all the folks talking about the evade action.

So the Tie Defender has Both the BTLA4 AND Chardaan Refit? But this Chardaan refit has a secondary effect on top of the point reduction. And Y-Wings had poor firepower to begin with so a firepower boost was needed. But the defender already had the high end on firepower. The usable cannons are limited but still...

And that's only the first three cards on this one. Who knows what else is in there? But now I am sorta feeling A-Wings got ripped off in Rebel Aces.

Go on back to the "Aces Pack" prior to that to see the real stinker of the 3.

This does, however, usher in the final death of the interceptor.