So assault proton torps says: "black critical: deal 1 face up damage card."

I dont understand the point of the upgrade. Dont you already have the default option of dealing a damage card face up for a critical hit?

Am i missing something?

2 things.

1) This one bypasses shields entirely. If for some reason the black hit/crit was the only damage dealing die because the rest were blanks, you'd still deal a face up damage to the hull even if the defending hull zone had 4 shields on it.

2) Its an additional damage. Resolving the critical effect is separate from dealing the damage of the attack. After the defending ship has completed the "spend defense tokens" step of the attack sequence, you'll trigger this critical effect, dealing a face up card, and then apply the damage. If we're using the above example where only the hit/crit has damage on it, you'll do 2 damage, one for the hit, and one for the crit. In total for the example you'll have done 3 damage, one face-up damage to the hull, and 2 damage to the shields.

1) This one bypasses shields entirely. If for some reason the black hit/crit was the only damage dealing die because the rest were blanks, you'd still deal a face up damage to the hull even if the defending hull zone had 4 shields on it.

This is the main appeal, IMO, for APTs.

If you can run them en mass, you can cause total havoc for the opponent.

Something like this can happen:

You attack the side of an MC80, it currently has full shields on that facing, you get your crit, trigger APTs, then the card you deal is Projector Misaligned (Your hull zone with the most remaining shields loses all of its shields, if multiple are tied, choose between the tied hull zones, then flip this card face down). So that 1-2 damage you would have done to shields not only deals one hull damage, but now you also have essentially done an extra 4 points of damage to shields.

Well that makes sense now! Thanks guys!

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

My buddy ran a pair 30s with APTs, Dodanna's Pride, and Luke. He just stomped with that list.

Partial luck, of course, but the crits that he could lay down were crazy.

My newfav list is a Doddona led, two torpedo MC30s ( APT, ordinance experts), Doddonas pride (leading shots) and a couple of engine team equipped CR90s. It's so fast and deals so much damage, you are shovelling ships off the board in round two and three.

Great fun.....

Nothing like having to reshuffle your damage discard into your deck mid-game because Dodonna's been cherry picking Structural Damages to the very bottom.

Nothing like having to reshuffle your damage discard into your deck mid-game because Dodonna's been cherry picking Structural Damages to the very bottom.

Nothing like having to reshuffle your damage discard into your deck mid-game because Dodonna's been cherry picking Structural Damages to the very bottom.

Yet to happen to me but I can see it.

Tvayumat has played against Dodonna kind of a _lot_...

Also, because this is not a standard critical effect, Contain tokens will not work against it - very handy against the large ships. That said though, the ability to bypass shields is its main benefit (esp with something like Dodonna)

2) Its an additional damage. Resolving the critical effect is separate from dealing the damage of the attack. After the defending ship has completed the "spend defense tokens" step of the attack sequence, you'll trigger this critical effect, dealing a face up card, and then apply the damage . If we're using the above example where only the hit/crit has damage on it, you'll do 2 damage, one for the hit, and one for the crit. In total for the example you'll have done 3 damage, one face-up damage to the hull, and 2 damage to the shields.

Where in the rules is this because my friend swears that you pull the face up first and if it that has anything like projector misaligned it takes affect during my spend tokens phase.

For example he roles 3 damage 1 crit, 2 damage. He triggers APT, I pull Projector misaligned. I lose shields then spend tokens. He thinks because it affects how you use the tokens so if I had 2 side shields and redirect to the front then my back shields would lose instead of my front, which doesn't even matter.

RRG, Page 2, "Attack"

2. Roll Attack Dice : Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

◊ If the defender is a ship, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacking hull zone’s or squadron’s battery armament.

◊ If the defender is a squadron, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacker’s anti-squadron armament.

◊ If the attacker cannot gather any dice appropriate for the range of the attack, the attack is canceled.

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

5. Resolve Damage:

The attacker can resolve one of its critical effects.

Then the attacker determines the total damage amount.

Then the defending squadron or hull zone suffers that total damage, one point at a time.

◊ If the attacker or defender is a squadron, the damage is the sum of all "HIT" icons.

◊ If the attacker and defender are ships, the damage is the sum of all "HIT" and "CRIT" icons.

◊ Each ship has the following standard critical effect: “"CRIT": If the defender is dealt at least one damage card by this attack, deal the first damage card faceup.”

So, let's look at the ORDER of 5, Resolve Damage.

Firstly, you resolve a Critical Effect. If you have at least one "CRIT' in your Pool, you resolve the effect - the effect you may choose if you have a Black Crit and Assault Proton Torpedoes is "DEAL ONE FACE UP DAMAGE CARD"

NOTE. At this point in time, you havn't even COUNTED how much Damage you do.

Because that's the Next Step. THEN determine damage amount. The Damage amount vs a Ship is the Total amount of "HIT" and "CRIT" icons. You have NOT SPENT THE CRIT ICON, DICE, OR ANYTHING .. Its still there as a "CRIT" Icon, and it adds to the Damage amount.

THEN you suffer the Damage, One Point at a Time.

So, let us look at this example here, and expand it to get some numbers:

For example he roles 3 damage 1 crit, 2 damage. He triggers APT, I pull Projector misaligned. I lose shields then spend tokens. He thinks because it affects how you use the tokens so if I had 2 side shields and redirect to the front then my back shields would lose instead of my front, which doesn't even matter.

You have 4 Shields on your Front, 2 on Each Side, and 1 on your Rear.

He rolls two Black Die. Gets a "HIT CRIT" and a "HIT"

You spend your Defence Tokens... You elect to Redirect here. You may make the assumption he will trigger APTs, but you do not know as he has not elected to do that yet. You may elect to Tough it out, and not redirect , based on specific interactions... But let us say you do.

He then decides he will trigger APTs. Dealing that Face Up Damage Card. Perhaps this Damage Card drops all of the shields from your Front Zone... ****. That Hurts... But it happens and you flip the card down.

Now he totals up that Damage... 3 Points... You elected to Redirect, so now, you decide on where that Damage will go... You splash as much of that Damage to a Side Shield as much as possible, taking 2 out... One Damage remains on your - now - 0'd out front Zone, and you take one there...

A Particularily devestating attack. 3 Rolled Damage has actually netted you 6 lost shields, and a pair of Face Down Damage Cards...

But, its a particular set of Circumstances that allowed this to happen... And it is rare, as there is only 2 of those Projector Misaligned cards in the whole damage deck.

RRG, Page 2, "Attack"

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

Thank you very much, I believe he thinks step 3 is where the face up card is dealt. Finally get to play a game where a misplaced illegal card gets dealt prematurely. My MC80's may yet live!

RRG, Page 2, "Attack"

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

Thank you very much, I believe he thinks step 3 is where the face up card is dealt. Finally get to play a game where a misplaced illegal card gets dealt prematurely. My MC80's may yet live!

Assault Proton Torpedoes work the exact same way Overload Pulse works. Timing wise.

So we were playing this today. My friend took Admiral Screed, a Gladiator 1 with APT.

He did a close attack from the right quarter. He rolls two crit/dam, a dam, and a blank. He uses Screed's ability to toss the blank and make the dam into a crit/dam, effectively giving him 3 of the same dice.

So he then did three faceup damage cards to my ship, then we resolved the three damage against shields as normal.

We both looked up after the smoke cleared, and we thought "this can't be right". Was this correctly done?

That was incorrect.

The Presence of a Critical Hit on the Dice allows you to activate one critical effect, that happens once .

Hit Total dice at the end was Crit/Hit, Crit/Hit, Crit/Hit.

What should have happened was, immediately, you take one Face up Damage Card. Because he can activate the critical effect to do that...

Nothing Is Spent or Discarded to do that .

You then total up how much damage has been done... And that, in this case, is Six ... Three for Hit Symbols, Three for Crit Symbols...

You would then resolve Six Damage, one at a time, to either Shields or Hull as appropriate...

However, even if you got through to the Hull, none of the further damage cards would be face up , as the Critical Effect had already been triggered by APTs... (Thus, the default critical effect of "your first damage card from this attack is face up" does not apply)

(And this entire time thusfar, has involved no defense tokens).

If, for example, you had Braced , it would only be 3 Damage (After that single Faceup Card from the Critical APT effect)...

If you redirected, you could choose an adjacent shield to take some of the damage...

So we were playing this today. My friend took Admiral Screed, a Gladiator 1 with APT.

He did a close attack from the right quarter. He rolls two crit/dam, a dam, and a blank. He uses Screed's ability to toss the blank and make the dam into a crit/dam, effectively giving him 3 of the same dice.

So he then did three faceup damage cards to my ship, then we resolved the three damage against shields as normal.

We both looked up after the smoke cleared, and we thought "this can't be right". Was this correctly done?

Great explanation, friends. So, does this mean that in *any* attack, not just the one I described, that you can only ever get one faceup damage card?

I imagine that the second attack, from a different zone, could give a player a second face up damage card, but that's because it's an entirely new attack...

Great explanation, friends. So, does this mean that in *any* attack, not just the one I described, that you can only ever get one faceup damage card?

I imagine that the second attack, from a different zone, could give a player a second face up damage card, but that's because it's an entirely new attack...

Correct.

The only ways, at this point in time, to land with more than 1 (new) Face-up Card on a target at the end of a single attack is to use either XX-9 Turbolasers, or to flip an existing facedown card faceup with the Precision Strike Objective (and land a Critical at the same time)

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

Yes. . . It wins games. . .

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

Yes. . . It wins games. . .

My primary rebel list includes Dodonna and 2 MC30 torpedo's with APT and Ord experts. It's pretty evil as you can fish for crits with ord experts, and then fish for the best crit with Dodonna. They can and will tear anything to pieces in short order.

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

Yes. . . It wins games. . .

My primary rebel list includes Dodonna and 2 MC30 torpedo's with APT and Ord experts. It's pretty evil as you can fish for crits with ord experts, and then fish for the best crit with Dodonna. They can and will tear anything to pieces in short order.

It really is devastating. Against small ships, just fish for those strucutral damages to finish them off quicky. Consider an MC30 can kill a raider, cr90, gladiator, or neb b in one round of shooting. 2 structural damage + ram = 5 damage.

Against big ships, I'd look for stuff that can neuter them quick. Imagine an Ackbar list running MC80's (or AFMK2), or ISDs with depowered armaments? (no long range attacks.) Game, set, match, right there, baby.

Has anyone even considered how this would fare on an MC30 dodana list....

Yes. . . It wins games. . .

My primary rebel list includes Dodonna and 2 MC30 torpedo's with APT and Ord experts. It's pretty evil as you can fish for crits with ord experts, and then fish for the best crit with Dodonna. They can and will tear anything to pieces in short order.

It really is devastating. Against small ships, just fish for those strucutral damages to finish them off quicky. Consider an MC30 can kill a raider, cr90, gladiator, or neb b in one round of shooting. 2 structural damage + ram = 5 damage.

Against big ships, I'd look for stuff that can neuter them quick. Imagine an Ackbar list running MC80's (or AFMK2), or ISDs with depowered armaments? (no long range attacks.) Game, set, match, right there, baby.

A double arcing TRC30 with APT and OE can 1 shot a Victory. I have done it. It does not require a spectacular roll either.

Against bigger ships I weill strike them at long range, drop shields and jump in ready to take them out while they have no tokens. MC30c's are very shark like in that way.

1) This one bypasses shields entirely. If for some reason the black hit/crit was the only damage dealing die because the rest were blanks, you'd still deal a face up damage to the hull even if the defending hull zone had 4 shields on it.

This is the main appeal, IMO, for APTs.

If you can run them en mass, you can cause total havoc for the opponent.

Something like this can happen:

You attack the side of an MC80, it currently has full shields on that facing, you get your crit, trigger APTs, then the card you deal is Projector Misaligned (Your hull zone with the most remaining shields loses all of its shields, if multiple are tied, choose between the tied hull zones, then flip this card face down). So that 1-2 damage you would have done to shields not only deals one hull damage, but now you also have essentially done an extra 4 points of damage to shields.

And the resolve critical happens before the deal damage step, so the 1-2 damage you just dealt could bypass that 4 shield that is no longer there.