33 points gets you Mauler Mithel and Backstabber.

White K turns seem awesome, except if your opponent elects to do a Kturn as well and you end up at range 4.

So, i figure I need to get a 4th grey TIE Defender, as fairly sure 8 glaives/TIE/D / Ion cannon/flachette mix with conc missiles and crackshot may be a thing.

(epic, obviously).

Can this be real? Can this be real? Can this be real?

Haven't read a single post in this topic - I just saw the news!

An Imperial Veterans Pack ... EXCELLENT!

8 Defender Epic. Discuss.

33 points gets you Mauler Mithel and Backstabber.

White K turns seem awesome, except if your opponent elects to do a Kturn as well and you end up at range 4.

Cool beans. So add 5 points of upgrades to a TIE/x7 Delta Squadron Pilot, play it out and see who comes out on top. I'd suggest putting a Stealth Device on the Delta, taking 3-speed plus maneuvers every turn and the focus action. See what happens.

White K-turns ARE awesome. If your opponent K-turns as well, they need to then shed the stress the following turn or get squashed. So either they keep the stress or they become much more predictable in their maneuvers. Lovely.

I'd just give it the TIE/MK II myself...

Delta would win though. It has the same hit points as the 2 TIEs, more firepower, as much agility, can white K turn, with the TIE/mk2 doesn't worry about stress. It does lose with pilot skill(the delta anyway) so some good barrel rolling can help the fighter aces, but that kturn...

I love how torn I am between the 2 Defender titles.

Free evade AND a 2 point discount is HUGE! Even high PS Defenders can work with that.

Double attack is HUGE! especially with the Tractor beam cannon. And you don't have to target the same target, giving you tactical flexibility and allowing opportunistic shots.

Exciting times!

So you are making my point for me?

I mean...how could something like the 'Slave-1' title ever work if you couldn't equip it in an order of your choosing, before you tried to add a torpedo to the ship? Obviously it can only function if the upgrades can be equipped in specific order. And the Long Range Scanners doesn't occupy any slots at all - it just checks to see if you have them when you equip it. Once that check is done, it doesn't interact with those upgrade icons any further.

You don't have the slot until you equip the Slave 1 title. As soon as you take the title, you can equip a torpedo because you now have the requirement, a torpedo icon.

(emphasis mine)

That's what I'm saying, yes. Order is important. You cannot take the torpedo before you take the title, but once you do...you can.

No, I'm not. You just decide to read it however you like to read it. But maybe I should have wrote as long as, instead of as soon as.

There is a difference between gaining an icon and losing one, but they are close. As soon as you gain it, you can use it; As soon as you lose it, you can't use it or benefit from it.

-I have a torpedo equiped on my Firespray.

-But you don't have the torpedo icon.

-No, but I had it. I picked the Slave 1 title, equiped a torpedo, then decided to change for the Andresta title.

-Okay. But do you have the torpedo icon now, now that the ship is done and ready to hit battle?

-No.

-Then no torpedo for you.

-I have a Long-Range Scanners equiped on my Tie Bomber.

-But you have the Tie Shuttle title equiped, so you don't have the torpedo and missile icon required.

-No, but I had it. I picked the Long-Range Scanners, then decided to take the Tie Shuttle title.

-Okay. But do you have the torpedo and missile icon now, now that the ship is done and ready to hit battle?

-No.

-Then no Long-Range Scanners for you.

I fail to see how those 2 situation are differents. Long-Range Scanners doesn't take the slot so that they can still be available if you wish to equip a torpedo or a missile, not so that you can decided to remove them later on when building the ship. It's not about timing, it's about fulfilling the requirements once the ship is done and hit the table. As soon as you decide to take the Tie Shuttle title, you don't fulfill the Long-Range Scanners requirement, hence making it illegal.

You know what I like best?

The chances that we will see a Rebel Veterans pack that patches the old aging T-65 and (some other Rebel ship... maybe more Y-wing pilots?)

If this was mentioned before... fine. I didn't read 18 pages.

The free evade token IS grand and will do wonders for the Defender's durability. I do have one thing to mention, though. Will it make the ship MORE predictable? That's always been one of its issues: a challenging dial. Your opponent can always see those 3 turns or 4Ks before they happen. I've had my best luck with Defenders going slower than my opponent expected. Now you have another reason to keep your foot on the floor.

That being said, my Defender hasn't come out of the case in some time. Since then, many players have gotten quite skilled with another strike and dash fighter: the IG2000. Zoomy tactics are quite powerful on that ship, so I'm looking forward to seeing the updated Defenders on the table. Just some thoughts, I hope I'm wrong.

I'm looking forward to Lieutenant Colzet flying around the board at extreme range flipping cards thanks to the long-range scanners.

I'm looking forward to Lieutenant Colzet flying around the board at extreme range flipping cards thanks to the long-range scanners.

he can't

Can this be real? Can this be real? Can this be real?

Haven't read a single post in this topic - I just saw the news!

An Imperial Veterans Pack ... EXCELLENT!

8 Defender Epic. Discuss.

Absolutely realistic.

5 x Delta + x7-title = 140 points

3 fancy red ones + D-title

I'm looking forward to Lieutenant Colzet flying around the board at extreme range flipping cards thanks to the long-range scanners.

he can't

Jendon wants a word.

Colzet and Jendon turtled up in a corner dishing damage from the first turn. But then, with the shuttle title they can do that anyway.

I'm looking forward to Lieutenant Colzet flying around the board at extreme range flipping cards thanks to the long-range scanners.

he can't

Jendon wants a word.

Colzet and Jendon turtled up in a corner dishing damage from the first turn. But then, with the shuttle title they can do that anyway.

The Shuttle title is the only way they can do that, as neither can take Long Range Scanners.

Colzet needs damage cards on the opponent. I don't know how you are going to get those turtles in a corner. What's going to happen is the other half of your squad is going to get wrecked by their entire squad. It could work in epic but not sure I'd sacrifice 50 odd points to flip hits into crits.

Also Vessery is 7 points too expensive. With the new upgrades available though, I'll say he's just 6 points too expensive.

Where do you get that number from? MajorJuggler stated that he thinks Vessery is even a little under if he gets a free TL with most of his shots. ...not that you have to listen and believe everything he says. I've had good success with Vessery without new titles and such.

I'm sure if all you cared about was relative jousting value then they seem fairly priced.

Is 35 points of Colonel Vessery better, the same, or worse than 35 points of Poe Dameron?

Depending on the rest of your list, I would say yes.

Of course, you can take the /x7 title to drop him 2 pts, buy a MkII engine and give him VI and he's even better.

I've wrecked things with Col. Vessery before. There are some people at my local store that hate him so much they target him first out of all my ships.

As for the /x7 title....it can do a lot. The Defender's best turn is a 3 Turn and it does it often enough. That or the K-turn. I use both of those moves often enough that I can easily see using it more than 3 times a game (unless he gets focus fired down fast). I'd really like to try a Defender with that title and Mk II engines.

I'd just give it the TIE/MK II myself...

Delta would win though. It has the same hit points as the 2 TIEs, more firepower, as much agility, can white K turn, with the TIE/mk2 doesn't worry about stress. It does lose with pilot skill(the delta anyway) so some good barrel rolling can help the fighter aces, but that kturn...

I'm not sure "losing" with Pilot Skill is the right way to put it.

It can block the aces, deny them actions, but can't ever be blocked by them itself. It's hard for the aces to barrel roll if they end up running into the Delta.

Moving first isn't always a disadvantage - indeed, some ships benefit hugely from it. I think over the last few months the forum has somewhat lost the fine art of blocking.

True, but given the situation i'd rather move first and go for the arc dodge.. Still, bumping one and shooting another - without losing actions... That would work.

Definitely would prefer the TIE/MKII for that.

I'd just give it the TIE/MK II myself...

Delta would win though. It has the same hit points as the 2 TIEs, more firepower, as much agility, can white K turn, with the TIE/mk2 doesn't worry about stress. It does lose with pilot skill(the delta anyway) so some good barrel rolling can help the fighter aces, but that kturn...

I'm not sure "losing" with Pilot Skill is the right way to put it.

It can block the aces, deny them actions, but can't ever be blocked by them itself. It's hard for the aces to barrel roll if they end up running into the Delta.

Moving first isn't always a disadvantage - indeed, some ships benefit hugely from it. I think over the last few months the forum has somewhat lost the fine art of blocking.

Which is crazy if they had watched Worlds.

Double attack is HUGE! especially with the Tractor beam cannon. And you don't have to target the same target, giving you tactical flexibility and allowing opportunistic shots.

Woah. Yes.

Vessery/Brath/Steele with Opportunist, TIE/D, Twin Ion Engine MkII and Ion/Flechette Cannon.

First shot to stress/ion and strip defensive tokens.

Second shot, activate Opportunist.

Not sure it's as good as the aforementioned Vessery/Outmaneuver combo, but rolling lots of dice sure is fun...

So, i figure I need to get a 4th grey TIE Defender

My wingman likes running red everything, I prefer running grey everything. This works.

I want them ALL

Those bombers are really, really sexy.

Vessery will probably wet himself thinking about a TIE shuttle with a long range weapons engineer painting targets for him everywhere...

Sadly that's impossible, you can't take the long range sensors and the Shuttle title on the same ship. Long Range Sensors require that the ship have a missile and torpedo slot on his bar but the title remove them all.

I don't think they conflict, actually.

The TIE Shuttle says that your upgrade bar 'loses all [torp], [missile], and [bomb]' icons, not that it was required for the ship to have any to begin with. Since you can equip upgrades in any order you want (else how would any of the upgrades that add slots ever work?), and the Long Range Sensor upgrade doesn't SIT in the slot, just require they once have been there...just apply the long range sensors first, then the TIE shuttle.

No, I really think they conflict.

By your logic, I could equip a missile, extra munition a bomb and then equip the title.

Tie Shuttle title says that you 'lose all torpedo, missile and bomb upgrade icons'

Long Range Scanner says that you can 'equip this card only if you have a torpedo and missile icon in your upgrade bar'.

Seems pretty clear to me that you can't equip both on the same ship. Might need a FAQ to clarify it for the more skeptical.... or to show me that I'm the fool.... would not be the first time.

You could do that, sure, it's just that when you equipped the title the missile, extra munition, and bomb would go away because the slot they were in was removed. So if you wanted to pay the points for them and have to discard them before the match began...okay by me. (Similarly, if the Long Range Sensors had a torpedo and missile icon on them, the way Palpatine has two crew icons, I'd absolutely agree it definitely couldn't be equipped. Or, more specifically, that it could be - but you'd lose it the moment you equipped the TIE shuttle.)

I mean...how could something like the 'Slave-1' title ever work if you couldn't equip it in an order of your choosing, before you tried to add a torpedo to the ship? Obviously it can only function if the upgrades can be equipped in specific order. And the Long Range Scanners doesn't occupy any slots at all - it just checks to see if you have them when you equip it. Once that check is done, it doesn't interact with those upgrade icons any further.

No, you're blatantly wrong xanderf. As someone already pointed out, that would mean that players could get disqualified for picking upgrades in the wrong order. Kdubb already showed us why that is completely insane, so instead when all upgrades are chosen we look over the list and ask, "is this legal?" (at which point Palpatine assures us that he will make it legal).

Putting torpedoes on the Slave I works because at the final stage of list building, we look and see that I have a Flechette Torpedo on a ship with no...wait, I have Slave I, so I do in fact have a torpedo slot. All is well, list is legal. I could even have LRS if I want because I have both a missile and torpedo slot.

TIE Shuttle and LRS don't work because one says that I must have certain upgrades slots (filled or not) to equip it and the other one directly says that I won't have the slots if I equip it. List building does not work like playing the game, the game does not check to see if the upgrade is legal and then grant a a free pass on it. Only the final build matters. My 100 point lists don't magically become illegal if I add a Gozanti and remove it before finalizing, they are only illegal when I actually declare that I'm going to use the Gozanti as part of a standard game.

Quoting the rules on pilot skill was completely beside the point. We're talking about list building, not the way the game is played once lists are on the table.

You just really want this combo to work, so you're getting weird with how you interpret the rules to try and make it work. Just accept that TIE Shuttle and LRS are just as incompatible as TIE/x7 and TIE/D, and just as illegal to equip simultaneously.