there goes me breaking the rules again!

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Because Vader SUUUUCCCKKSSS! He has absolutely no utility...

Keep thinking that bro, and I'll teach you a lesson at Worlds I'll even use Advanjced Projectors to give you an advantage

Love that you're chasing Devastator following that last/first principle your DEMOLISHER (caps intentional and warranted) list on vassal sought to capitalize on. A thought, though: You've got one target, essentially, for your opponent to focus on. Do you think IO is necessary? Between Vader and incoming fire you can burn through those tokens in a couple turns. If your opponent decides he/she will defeat you by not firing at the Devastator, you spent 10 points to make an ISD invulnerable.

Either way I dig it.

Just played a game with Onca (great opponent, btw!) with two Christmas tree ISD's, one of which was Devastator on an ISD-1. Anecdotes don't make a ship great, of course... All I'm saying is that Vader's Devastator smacked 11 points of damage with an accuracy on an MC80 in one shot.

Just played a game with Onca (great opponent, btw!) with two Christmas tree ISD's, one of which was Devastator on an ISD-1. Anecdotes don't make a ship great, of course... All I'm saying is that Vader's Devastator smacked 11 points of damage with an accuracy on an MC80 in one shot.

It's safe to say that the MC80 has been... Devastated !

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Because Vader SUUUUCCCKKSSS! He has absolutely no utility...

Keep thinking that bro, and I'll teach you a lesson at Worlds I'll even use Advanjced Projectors to give you an advantage

ok, I'm a little confused by what your trying to Say here.

I don't know if you were trolling or not by saying Vader SUCKS, but it was a challenge call to show you that he doesn't

ok, I'm a little confused by what your trying to Say here.

I don't know if you were trolling or not by saying Vader SUCKS, but it was a challenge call to show you that he doesn't

Anyway BRING IT ON!

He means taking APs instead of ECMs, since ECMs are "better" at the moment, since XI7s essentially negates APs....

Y';know. Typical chest-beating bravado

Love that you're chasing Devastator following that last/first principle your DEMOLISHER (caps intentional and warranted) list on vassal sought to capitalize on. A thought, though: You've got one target, essentially, for your opponent to focus on. Do you think IO is necessary? Between Vader and incoming fire you can burn through those tokens in a couple turns. If your opponent decides he/she will defeat you by not firing at the Devastator, you spent 10 points to make an ISD invulnerable.

Either way I dig it.

After playing with this I decided to switch devastator for demolisher and then fiddled with the upgrades eventually dropping Vader for SCREED and reaching what you Know now.

fuuny you should mention my vassal list because this was the "earliest" version.

After playing with this I decided to switch devastator for demolisher and then fiddled with the upgrades eventually dropping Vader for SCREED and reaching what you Know now.

I think the two don't compare, which is why you swapped, but I still think it's a great experiment. DEMO is def netting more damage moving into a shot at turn end and firing first at the top of the subsequent turn. The difference is quite obviously ISD survivability. So while DEMO damage in a condensed two-turn window is untouchable, I do wonder if you can make it similar or even greater with the Devastator over more time - assuming increased survivability and the ability to keep something in that front arc in order to capitalize.

I'm interested fo sho.

When stripped down to 120 (after Devastator) the ISD1 doesn't cost so much more than the tricked out GSD you were pushing around, either.

Love that you're chasing Devastator following that last/first principle your DEMOLISHER (caps intentional and warranted) list on vassal sought to capitalize on. A thought, though: You've got one target, essentially, for your opponent to focus on. Do you think IO is necessary? Between Vader and incoming fire you can burn through those tokens in a couple turns. If your opponent decides he/she will defeat you by not firing at the Devastator, you spent 10 points to make an ISD invulnerable.

Either way I dig it.

All I'll say is that I am always glad I have an Intel Officer on an ISD (and always have at least one round where I miss it when it's not there). The fact that I can use it early to now nuke one of my defense tokens and start the chain to Devastator glory just means the card is more flexible now. If I'm losing defense tokens naturally due to focus fire, I can still use IO on the offensive to strip a defense token from an enemy ship. The inherent risk with Devastator is that my ship is more vulnerable to attack. When does it cease to be vulnerable? When I destroy everything in range to attack it. What's the fastest way to destroy a ship? Usually by getting rid of its brace (or its redirect(s), for those oddball ships that don't have braces).

I find the second point really intriguing. For anyone who's run Devastator consistently (or at all), did you get the sense the enemy was deterred at shooting at Devastator, or did the dwindling number of defense tokens encourage more enemy fire? If there's some sort of subliminal deterrent effect, I could see how that might be worth some of the cost.

Love that you're chasing Devastator following that last/first principle your DEMOLISHER (caps intentional and warranted) list on vassal sought to capitalize on. A thought, though: You've got one target, essentially, for your opponent to focus on. Do you think IO is necessary? Between Vader and incoming fire you can burn through those tokens in a couple turns. If your opponent decides he/she will defeat you by not firing at the Devastator, you spent 10 points to make an ISD invulnerable.

Either way I dig it.

I find the second point really intriguing. For anyone who's run Devastator consistently (or at all), did you get the sense the enemy was deterred at shooting at Devastator, or did the dwindling number of defense tokens encourage more enemy fire? If there's some sort of subliminal deterrent effect, I could see how that might be worth some of the cost.

I think making Devastator work is all about controlling your use of those defense tokens. Optimally, you will be able to judge the minimum number of extra blues you'll need when you get The Shot lined up, and burn that number of tokens at the end of the round immediately before that. This requires you to be familiar with the expected damage output from your particular build, and to know how much damage you need to put on your target to get the desired effect (punch through the shields for a crit, strip away all the shields, kill outright, etc). You also need to be able to identify which tokens are the least valuable and prioritize accordingly. Last night I burned both redirects because I had one hull facing that still had shields and it was facing the enemy, for example.

It did not seem to deter shots against Devastator, the one opponent I've played it against. He did prioritize the ISD-2 next door that Vader was riding on, but he didn't not take shots that he had against Devastator, even 1-2 die pot shots.

One more thought that just occurred to me, looking at Devastator. The extra dice can be added once per round while attacking from the forward hull zone. Not saying this is a good idea, but if I was shooting anti-squadron chaff from my forward arc, and I really wanted to kill a particular squadron (Jan, for instance), would there be any reason I could not add the extra dice from Devastator to that attack roll (and roll up to six blue dice at Jan--which would one-shot her in the event you land two accuracies and four hits)?

It would be limited I think to just a single anti-squadron shot at one squadron and not to all squadron attacks (since those attacks are treated separately, based on FFG's response to the Warlord/H-9/anti-squadron interactions), and again, I'm not sold on whether I'd actually do it, but it doesn't seem prohibited to me. Am I missing something?

You can use that extra pew versus one squadron, yes.

Yep, you can ! Much like Dominator actually. Like Tarkin said though, only against one squadron.

Could be interesting when you really need to push damage against that specific squadron

Or to grab a final 20 points off a character squadron if there's nothing else to kill turn 6, although if you're maximizing Devastator (no tokens left) and have no targets on turn 6 you probably are crushing or getting crushed.

Or to grab a final 20 points off a character squadron if there's nothing else to kill turn 6, although if you're maximizing Devastator (no tokens left) and have no targets on turn 6 you probably are crushing or getting crushed.

Milking those extra MOV points off the opponent and now his failure is complete !

Ah, the old RAI vs RAW argument.

All I can say for sure is that if someone persisted in trying to use an Intel Officer on their own ship, they would not be finishing that game with me, nor would they be getting any more games locally. I can say with certainty that we would not tolerate that nonsense around here.

Ah, the old RAI vs RAW argument.

All I can say for sure is that if someone persisted in trying to use an Intel Officer on their own ship, they would not be finishing that game with me, nor would they be getting any more games locally. I can say with certainty that we would not tolerate that nonsense around here.

It was already confirmed by FFG that this somewhat counterintuitive use of your intel officer is in fact within the rules. So while I share your doubts towards the fluffiness of this ruling it is FFGs will.

You can of cause decide not to play against some dude for any imaginable reason, but in this case you would decide to not play a guy who is 100% following the rules, no RAW vs. RAI included.

Ah, the old RAI vs RAW argument.

All I can say for sure is that if someone persisted in trying to use an Intel Officer on their own ship, they would not be finishing that game with me, nor would they be getting any more games locally. I can say with certainty that we would not tolerate that nonsense around here.

You wouldn't tolerate... difference of opinion on unclear rules interpretation...? What if the other guy wouldn't tolerate your overlaying your own opinion of the game designers' intent onto the rules as written? He's just as justified in that position as you are in yours (FFG's ruling now notwithstanding).

Taking a hard-line position like this in addressing differences of opinion doesn't help your community at all. The right answer here is to come to an agreement through some impartial means, then deal with it and finish the game amicably. Flip a coin, roll a die, or (if you're at a tournament) ask the TO to rule. Then, in the future, if you're going to be encountering an identified debatable rules situation in a game, address it before you start so you don't find yourself in that situation again. Alienating a player over a difference of opinion on something as trivial as this, even if it completely changes the course of the game at hand, strikes me as short-sighted.

RAW and RAI can be different... unless the game's designer clarifies that RAW is in fact RAI. Then they're not, right?

I didn't review the thread to see if anyone already posted this, but FYI.

Hello, Deathseed.

Ah, the old RAI vs RAW argument.

All I can say for sure is that if someone persisted in trying to use an Intel Officer on their own ship, they would not be finishing that game with me, nor would they be getting any more games locally. I can say with certainty that we would not tolerate that nonsense around here.

Ah, the old RAI vs RAW argument.

Um, there's nothing left to interpretation here. FFG has already signed off that it's a valid action. You may not like it, but it's perfectly legal.