You guys have swayed me. I think its weird and quirky and not fluffy at all, but I'm a Warmachine player at heart and I've learned that fluffy can be thrown out the window in favor of some fun competition and wacky attack strategies. If someone tried this on me, I'd let it go. I probably wouldn't do it to someone else, and if I did I'd ask about it BEFORE the game started. And as others have mentioned, its likely a strategy of desperation and really weakens the defensive options of the ship doing so. I still think 10 points is outrageous for it, but if you MUST make it work, go ahead and spend 17 points to add those one/two blue dice.

I kinda want to make a gimmick list with that victory just for kicks

I run the expanded launchers + Dominator + X17 VSD so often I made a specific model for it. I don't use slaved turrets, and I don't have CF commands though. I usually just spam move and repair commands as the natural damage is high enough, and the focus should be on actually getting to shoot / stay shooting.

D503, I heart you. That is a slick ship.

That is a cool ship man....good job. There is something we can all agree on.

Cheers

Why are people getting rid of the clear fin? I get painting the bottom black and nobody can deny the awesome paint job of the pic above, but why the fin. I want to see the ship suspended not anchored. is is just to be different.

Why are people getting rid of the clear fin? I get painting the bottom black and nobody can deny the awesome paint job of the pic above, but why the fin. I want to see the ship suspended not anchored. is is just to be different.

Dunno, just seemed the right thing to do with the starter set, and now I have to do it otherwise they will look weird as a collection

Why are people getting rid of the clear fin? I get painting the bottom black and nobody can deny the awesome paint job of the pic above, but why the fin. I want to see the ship suspended not anchored. is is just to be different.

I painted all of mine with matte black primer, with toothbrush-spattered white paint stars. Reason being, I play on mostly-black starfield mats most of the time. Against those mats, the fin is actually significantly less visible than shiny clear plastic reflecting the light.

It might be legal, but it's also terrible because Devastator adds to the attack pool. Once you've thrown the dice, you're already past that stage in the attack. There's also a solid argument that it doesn't work because Intel officer pertains exclusively to the spend defense token stage of an attack, and when you spend a defense token outside of that time period, it's not really spending it. The Devastator is already going to get a heaping of hate and burn its tokens. I don't see a need for this combo. I wouldn't allow it.

. There's also a solid argument that it doesn't work because Intel officer pertains exclusively to the spend defense token stage of an attack, and when you spend a defense token outside of that time period, it's not really spending it.

This argument relies on an underlying assumption which, based on a reading of the cards, is incorrect.

Darth Vader

"While a friendly ship is attacking a ship, it may spend 1 defense token to reroll any number of dice in its attack pool."

Intel Officer

"While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token."

Order of Attack:

1. Declare Target:

2. Roll Attack Dice: Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

As we have now Rolled our Attack Pool, but not moved on to Attack Effects, we have hit the "After" trigger for Intel Officer. THIS IS THE POINT WE CHOOSE ONE OF OUR OWN TOKENS. Now, Normally, this would be Wasted, as was pointed out, We LACK the Basic Rule that would allow us to SPEND our Defence Token during OUR attack. Note that we are NOT nominating to SPEND that token at all.

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the "Concentrate Fire" command.

Darth Vader takes effect here... Here is where you may "Spend" a Defense Token to Reroll any amount of Dice. So if we HAVE chosen ours, and we SPEND it to trigger Darth Vader, we have "Spent" the Defense Token that has been Targeted by Intel Officer. THIS IS AN EXCEPTION TO THE RULES, and a point where the CARD RULES are DIRECTLY IN CONTRAVENTION to the Rules Reference. Which takes precedence in this case? The Card. As Per "The Golden Rule"

It is correct that we have SPENT a Defense Token for a Card Effect, this means that we do NOT get the 'normal' effect of said Defence Token, but that's Totally Cool, because we're Attacking, not Defending... Who cares if they can't Evade a Dice when they're Attacking...

4. Spend Defense Tokens:

This is the Enemy Spend Defense Token Step. Intel Officer has no inherent requirement to be used on the Enemy, as shown by the distinct lack of "Enemy" or "Non-Friendly" words upon it.

5. Resolve Damage:

However, there is one time when this combination would NOT work to Discard a Token. And that is when you are firing Anti-Squadron Fire at a Squadron... Normally, you CAN use Intel Officer to select a Scatter or Brace and have it Discarded by the Enemy... But with this combination, it will not work to gain you a Die, as Darth Vader can only trigger while firing at a Ship.

The lack of a Ship requirement for Intel Officer could be argued as just as damning as the lack of Enemy, but I see no-one arguing that...

We have to go by the wording, and the Word is "Spend". If this were another Spend vs Discard issue like the Admonition issue we've previously discussed, I'd agree with you... But unfortunately, the Wording of the Card is somewhat Absolute. To put any other intention or ommission - deliberate or not - is to add words to the Card, which we, as players, should not be doing - especially not at Organised Play Events.

And we must also remember the Tournament Rules on Rules Interactions:

"Also, the golden rule applies when interpreting card effects and interactions; if the rules text of a card contradicts the game rules, the rules on the card take precedence."

The rules on the Card, in this case, do not directly contradict the game rules, but we should keep in mind that, when they do, Cards Take Precedence.

Intel Officer does not Specify Enemy. The Card Takes Precedence.

But, since I do what I can to remain somewhat Neutral, I will also point out to those who do not believe this is the case - and it pertains to Organised Play Events...

The head judge is the final authority for all card interpretations and may overrule the FAQ when a mistake or error is discovered.

If you are the Head Judge at your Event, then by all means, bar the Interaction between them... But that is up to a Head Judge to decide. For as much as you decide to disallow it, there will be judges who decide to allow it. (I will add that I allow this in my League, as I do not believe a mistake or error has been made, and I will of course, await the FAQ)...

There's also a solid argument that it doesn't work because Intel officer pertains exclusively to the spend defense token stage of an attack, and when you spend a defense token outside of that time period, it's not really spending it.

While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card, to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token.

While a friendly ship is attacking a ship, it may spend 1 defense token to reroll any number of dice in its attack pool.

Edit: totally, vigorously ninja'd.

The lack of a Ship requirement for Intel Officer could be argued as just as damning as the lack of Enemy, but I see no-one arguing that...

Edit: totally, vigorously ninja'd.

The lack of a Ship requirement for Intel Officer could be argued as just as damning as the lack of Enemy, but I see no-one arguing that...

For the record, I have brought this up twice in this thread (specifically as relating to Jan Ors, as she has a direct interaction with the disputed aspect of Intel Officer), with no response so far.

This is because you Calmly and Rationally Explain. You do not argue as per say

And mostly because I admit, I completely jumped out of the Toxic Thread for a while, and only returned for that specific assumption, because I felt a bit invigourated by finishing my latest Commission paint job...

So maybe I'm just feeling Ballsy, and I'll be thoroughly disabused of my "feeling helpful" notions in quick time

The lack of a Ship requirement for Intel Officer could be argued as just as damning as the lack of Enemy, but I see no-one arguing that...

For the record, I have brought this up twice in this thread (specifically as relating to Jan Ors, as she has a direct interaction with the disputed aspect of Intel Officer), with no response so far.

This is because you Calmly and Rationally Explain. You do not argue as per say

And mostly because I admit, I completely jumped out of the Toxic Thread for a while, and only returned for that specific assumption, because I felt a bit invigourated by finishing my latest Commission paint job...

So maybe I'm just feeling Ballsy, and I'll be thoroughly disabused of my "feeling helpful" notions in quick time

For what its worth dras, I very much enjoyed your explaination.

Also, I think the reason ship not being printed is less damning then enemy is that so long as "while attacking" is printed on there, you assume its attacks against any target unless otherwise specified.

Eh, you may be right. But I stand by my statement that it is a terrible idea to put into practice, if perhaps legal. Your reading would also imply that there is no restriction to whoever has the defense tokens when using intel officer. Jan Ors giving her braces, or whatever new toys they have thought up for wave 3.

I'd still be willing to bet playing Ozzel that it is FAQ'd to remove this option. I don't understand the hype...

Until next time, Drasnighta.

I put an email in to their rules gurus a couple days ago, so we should hear back eventually.

I put an email in to their rules gurus a couple days ago, so we should hear back eventually.

As did I.

(high five)

THREAD NECROMANCY! BEHOLD MY DARK POWERS!

I got an email back;

The information contained in this electronic message is privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the recipient named above. If the reader of the message is not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.

And then the follow up;

Well. There you have it.

You can Do it.

Questions are still raised if its sensible to set your house on fire to spite the Cold...

But with Darth Vader, you can...

... Its not like they have a Bloated Officer Corps because of him anyway.

Just like I logically assumed

How to make Devastator work ?

Well, whenever you feel like you want to boost your front arc's power and you actually have the target that has trouble avoiding the front arc of an ISD.

I think Devastator works best on an ISD 1 (ironically enough, Devastator is an ISD 1 in the fluff and let's be honest, FFG takes good inspiration from the fluff ) because both the ISD 1 and Devastators have one thing in common : it's unrealistic to expect getting more than one full good shot with your front arc unless you're on a ramming lock trajectory with an MC80.

Due to their short range black dice, ISD's front arc are unlikely to see action more than once per game except on large ships that can't escape collision trajectories OR badly played medium ships. I'm not even taking into account light ships in the analysis, because anyone stupid enough to let a small ships into the optimal range of the ISD 1's front arc should seriously consider investing some time practicing arc dodging.

The Devastator, due to discarding defense token to trigger his ability means that he will be unable to defend against shots placed after him discarding said tokens. So, optimally, the Devastator wants to tank shots while on the way to its target, as many shots as possible to remove his defense tokens, throw one good shot on its target, then burn like hell in an escape trajectory before he gets swarmed by many attacks that will take it down because it has no more defense tokens remaining.

It's definitely not a centerpiece ship that wants to stay under fire for more than 2 to 3 turns. And I feel (but I have no analysis to back it up) that the safe range of the Devastator is getting 2 blue dice (which is quite decent for 10 points)while still keeping its brace to defend any massive hull damage and the Contain to prevent the odd annyong crit effect while it slowly leaves the danger zone (DANGER ZONE !). So, essentially, you burn through your shields like hell by making the redirects tokens rain and keep the two hull defense tokens safe to avoid being killed.

It also needs to make its 1 to 2 shots at full efficiency count, so dice modification upgrades and commanders are more than welcome !

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Because Vader SUUUUCCCKKSSS! He has absolutely no utility...

I could say the same about Motti. He is just a silly crutch.

Why not just use gunnery teams to shoot a ball of squadrons first, use vader to spend tokens to reroll everything (hilarious vs bossk) so if you arc 6 squadrons you can get rid of everything bar brace. Now you target a ship from your front arc and trigger Devastator. Kinda like a charge up to an atk.

Cool idea, but you can only use Vader when attacking ships, sadly.

Because Vader SUUUUCCCKKSSS! He has absolutely no utility...

Well that and you can't reroll against squadrons.

I could say the same about Motti. He is just a silly crutch.