What would it take to make the T-65 competitive?

By Bojanglez, in X-Wing

Just two ideas for a Title:

"Resistance Refit"

-2

X-Wing Only.

Rebel Alliance Only.

This card has a negative squad point cost.

Or...

"Resistance Refit"

0

X-Wing Only.

Rebel Alliance Only.

This ship can perform 2 bank and 2 turn maneuvers as green maneuvers.

Once again, I am glad this game is not designed by the forum.

That assign a shield token to your ship when attacked is a trifle overpowerd, I admit. :P.

Once again, I am glad this game is not designed by the forum.

Wedge - BB-88 - PTL - IA
Ywing - R3A2 - TLT - BTL
Ywing - TLT
Proto Awing

That's some Arc dodging, blocking, stress madness right there! Want Soontir or Corran dead? Cool, stress him out, block him, then Wedge slaps them from the side while they defend with 1 less dice.

First idea: You did see Integrated Astromech, right?

Second one: That is slightly better (as in not gamebreaking), but a card that does this already exists: R2 Astromech.

Those who still call for an X-Wing fix should really take a step back and proxy R2 Rookies, R7 Tarn and TA Hobbie for a while and then come to the conclusion that the X-Wing is playable now.

Modification:

"But I'm supposed to win"

Once per game, discard this card to rage-quit. 0Pts.

Nerds.jpg

Counts as an auto-loss, but saves you and the other guy killing time in a game you both will not enjoy.

Edited by WokeUpDead

Problem is, any specific fix to the (t-65) X-Wing wouldn't actually be able to say T-65 only... because the original X-Wing doesn't have T-65 printed on it, so from a game mechanics standpoint, you can either start re-reprinting all of the original X-WIngs with T-65 on them, which they aren't going to do, or look at other ways. Because as of right now, even a title for the X-Wing that says X-Wing Only, will still be usable on the T-70. (Unless they come up with a new way to specify, like X-Wing only, but not the T-70 - but that would sound strange).

Well, you could always come up with an upgrade that's X-wing only, and cannot be equipped when the ship has Boost - kinda other way round what they did with the AT.

As far as "fixing" the T-65 I can't contribute, I play Rebels only very rarely and then only A-Wing Swarm (with amazing success so far).

I played the Khiraxz a lot in the last weeks, and I can tell you, whatever problems the XWing has, the Khiraxz kinda got it too; the 1 point less is greatly overshadowed by not having a mech slot. I also miss the hard-3, really, although it's nice to have the quite valuable hard-1.

What role does this craft perform on the field? Does it have lateral mobility like an interceptor, or enough straight line speed to hunt something down and be called a fighter? Besides just taking Hobie or Tarn for their abilities, what exactly does the X-Wing DO?

Besides just taking Hobie or Tarn for their abilities, what exactly does the X-Wing DO that the B Wing doesnt do better?

Fixed that for ya! :P But you asked the key question which the X Wing has struggled to answer since the B Wing appeared. The B hits just as hard, brings a different, but still effective dial and backs it up with re-positioning capability plus better upgrade choices. The X is faster, guaranteed, but with less overall reliable staying power and a situationally worse dial. With the ranges of upgrades it offers instead of the astro-trashcan, the B Wing adds reliability in actions (FCS/Adv Sensors) for only a few points more and with the E2 mod can brings a host of support options. Even naked the B is effective, which is why 4B lists have been a staple recently and the X became a far worse option in lists. Which is one of the reasons they dropped out of the forum consciousness.

Edited by phocion

First idea: You did see Integrated Astromech, right?

Second one: That is slightly better (as in not gamebreaking), but a card that does this already exists: R2 Astromech.

Those who still call for an X-Wing fix should really take a step back and proxy R2 Rookies, R7 Tarn and TA Hobbie for a while and then come to the conclusion that the X-Wing is playable now.

Agreed.

Honestly outside of poe the t70 really isn't all that appealing, and I've been flying both with the unreleased upgrades. Meanwhile TA hobbie is pretty ridiculous for 27 pts and downright nasty with torps. IA/R2 rookies are very solid economy x wings and Luke, wedge, biggs are all still good no great ships. If anything its the t70 that doesn't live up to the hype.

Luke with predator and R2 was wrecking people for me last December, I imagine he will be pretty good with IA added.

Honestly outside of poe the t70 really isn't all that appealing,

Because usage of boost (which is the feature of T-70 over T-65 aside from free shield) is limited to blocking for low-skill pilots.

Maybe the new 7-grade will be viable for VI and will be nice.

BB-8. R7-T1

I've been finding these two quite interesting to play with myself - BB8 I find works really well for the slight adjustments that can help make for a better initial engagement - but once you're made it I find you don't need him as much, either because you don't want the greens or because he's exploded. :P

R7-T1 is almost the opposite - useless until you're up close and personal, but then is almost exclusively there for arc-dodging.

I like both of them, I must say. Both allowed my X-Wing to survive way longer than before - either by taking the crit to let him get one more shot in, or by making chasing them down that bit more of a pain in the arse. More importantly I enjoyed the decision making I had to do each round, trying to get the most out of them.

Once again, I am glad this game is not designed by the forum.

It would be 100% arc dodgers with zero turrets and lots of bells and whistles for no extra points.

In short: "I want to have my cake and eat it too." by design.

Luke with predator and R2 was wrecking people for me last December, I imagine he will be pretty good with IA added.

My favorite build for luke is still LW, EU.. r5p9 although r2d2 is right up there and sometimes I switch it up. Edit- ya know I can't say that definitively so NM. Too bad he can't take both.

Edited by Carnor Rex

What does it take to make the T-65 competitive?

A skilled player who flies it very well, crafts a strong list they are experienced flying, and a little bit of dice luck.

What does it take to make the T-65 competitive?

A skilled player who flies it very well, crafts a strong list they are experienced flying, and a little bit of dice luck.

Spot on as a platitude, but the lack of T-65's in tourney builds would suggest that it isn't quite as cut and dried as this.

Just so I understand this.

Everyone said the X-Wing didn't need a fix only a nudge or a bit of love. We get a nudge that math says brings the X-Wing up to par. But before this is even released or properly played in tournaments people are now saying regardless the X-Wing now needs something that screams fix.

Honestly I don't think people will be satisfied until the X-Wing has the maneuverability of the TIE Interceptor and totally dominates the meta.

Just so I understand this.

Everyone said the X-Wing didn't need a fix only a nudge or a bit of love. We get a nudge that math says brings the X-Wing up to par. But before this is even released or properly played in tournaments people are now saying regardless the X-Wing now needs something that screams fix.

Honestly I don't think people will be satisfied until the X-Wing has the maneuverability of the TIE Interceptor and totally dominates the meta.

I think the people who said it needed a nudge are saying it's fine with IA and more astros, and the people who believed it needed a "real fix" are getting louder because they feel FFG isnt listening to them.

Just so I understand this.

Everyone said the X-Wing didn't need a fix only a nudge or a bit of love. We get a nudge that math says brings the X-Wing up to par. But before this is even released or properly played in tournaments people are now saying regardless the X-Wing now needs something that screams fix.

Honestly I don't think people will be satisfied until the X-Wing has the maneuverability of the TIE Interceptor and totally dominates the meta.

Dealing with the TIE Interceptor religion is like dealing with the F-16 religion.

If you value your sanity, you don't.

Honestly I don't think people will be satisfied until the X-Wing has the maneuverability of the TIE Interceptor and totally dominates the meta.

The only response this deserves is a long drawn out fart sound.

Just so I understand this.

Everyone said the X-Wing didn't need a fix only a nudge or a bit of love. We get a nudge that math says brings the X-Wing up to par. But before this is even released or properly played in tournaments people are now saying regardless the X-Wing now needs something that screams fix.

Honestly I don't think people will be satisfied until the X-Wing has the maneuverability of the TIE Interceptor and totally dominates the meta.

The problem is that IA probably doesn't do much for named elite pilots (except Biggs and maybe Tarn).

Frankly, with the cost effectiveness and consistent damage output of the TLT Y, generics are in trouble regardless of IA or any other additiona fix -- and that's not just the X-wing, it's all but the cheapest generics. So, you won't see X-Wing generics (or a lot of others) unless something provides a decent counter to a TLT. I mean, TLT Ys are a big reason Bs have disappeared, the 24 TLT Y is just so much better. It's also worth noting that TLT Ys are extremely punishing to the original X-Wing aces with just five health, a lack of autothrusters, and no ability to adjust movement to get in that R1 bubble .

I think if TLT hadn't come in and become the goto card and filler ship at that point range, I think IA would have been fine for the generics.

Edited by AlexW

The X Wing was designed for a completely different game, that just happened to share the same name and dev team. The problem isn't the jousting efficiency, its the lack of reposition or autothrusters, since those things obviously weren't concerns back then.

Well. Both the TIE Fighter and TIE Advanced were released in Wave 1. They both have some great repositioning ability.

Being harder to kill is nice but if your opponents are avoiding your arcs because they can boost and barrel while you can't it's mearly delaying the inevitable.

The inability of high ps x-wing pilots to alter position will keep them on the shoreline.

BB-8. R7-T1. Expert Handling. Engine Upgrade.

Or better still, learning to play the game without relying on the crutches that are high-PS, post-maneuver repositioning abilities.

Post maneuvering options can certainly be a safety valve, but they're also an ability to put your ship in a lot more places than it normally couldn't have gone, which is especially important for blockers and is also useful for the purposes of escaping and reengaging.

An extra shield and more green maneuvers, you could even bump the cost up by a point a day take away the mod slot