So right now I'm interesting in hearing what your thoughts on the trends of the meta is going to right now and how you or someone else is going to combat it.

I'll tart with my own thoughts (neophyte as they may be) are:

• Right now it is the season of the POE. Personally I think that Poe has all but replaced Corran as the ace ship with re-positioning. He is cheaper and I like the options of the boost over the barrel roll, and if equiped with BB-8 then he has both at the expense of regeneration.
• TLT's occupy a place where the Phantom (Pre Nerf) used to. They are good, not unbeatable but have to be accounted for. I think everyone right now are trying out some of the "New to Them" squads which are mostly rebels.
• There are some scum squads still waiting to break through. I can't see why YV-666 with Bossk and gunner haven't made it to a top 32
• The empire is struggling with the new upgrades, yes palpmobile is still a thing (and a good one at that) but I'm not sure it will hold up.
• Agility 1 ships are being pushed out. Due to the treat of TLT. If you are going TLT vs TLT then it is a race against the clock and up to some good dice rolls (Excluding player ability) I'm not hearing or seeing anything of AGI 1 ships without a turret.
• Im not sure swarms will be back, I think the developers want it to be a viable archetype, but right now is not the time.

So what are your thoughts?

What are your counters?

You know there is a whole NOVA SQUADRON podcast about this, right?

Personally, I'm doing pretty well with my 4 Tie Bomber list.

You know there is a whole NOVA SQUADRON podcast about this, right?

Personally, I'm doing pretty well with my 4 Tie Bomber list.

I've heard the Nova Squadron podcast.. it is good but it doesn't talk about YOUR impressions, and what you would be doing to fly or counter certain list.

Nor does it talk about your feelings on the matter.

I'm all for a good conversation, but I also want a honest discussion on how you feel.

Just because there are experts on the panel (And I like NSR) doesn't mean they are right, nor are they always telling everything (They have to have their own little secrets I'm sure)

I think it's as bad a meta as PWT's+Ace meta. When the first steps of squad building are 'what ships am I going to bring with Autothrusters and which do I bring with lots of health and am I bringing any TLT?', you lose my interest pretty quick.

And I'd like to go off and play in a different format like Epic for a while, but then I see people there who spam TLT-Ys and Aggressors, or 22 TIE fighters, or some other degenerate pile, and I'm thinking, 'well, he's not wrong' :/

Season of tactician Miranda around here. I haven't seen a Poe since world's.

Just because there are experts on the panel (And I like NSR) doesn't mean they are right ...

I never believed a real person could have as much hollow pride as Anakin. Thank you for that insight.

Just because there are experts on the panel (And I like NSR) doesn't mean they are right ...

I never believed a real person could have as much hollow pride as Anakin. Thank you for that insight.

Well, he's right. The more people that talk about stuff, the more likely you are to uncover more useful ideas about good units or lists in the future. I expect the NSR panel is correct, but it may not be complete, and I doubt any of them would expect their discussion to act as a limit on other discussions.

To answer the OP, though. I think it will be the season of beef. All those stress tools take away the action efficiency of a lot of ships, so I think a lot of successful lists will be able to take one on the chin without having an element crippled.

A lot of unknown variables at the moment. I'm looking at Guidance Chip and the Tractor Beam at the moment as something that may be playing a factor. But there are a lot of upgrades in the Bounty Hunter ships as well.

All I really know is, Biggs about to make a comeback in a big way.

Just because there are experts on the panel (And I like NSR) doesn't mean they are right ...

I never believed a real person could have as much hollow pride as Anakin. Thank you for that insight.

Well, he's right. The more people that talk about stuff, the more likely you are to uncover more useful ideas about good units or lists in the future. I expect the NSR panel is correct, but it may not be complete, and I doubt any of them would expect their discussion to act as a limit on other discussions.

Thank you biophysical. I also think NSR is not deceiving us, and they talk honestly on their lists. I'm also not opposing their view.

I think that there are other views to be had.

Personally I think to defeat Poe you haveto block him like soontir or force a red on him and attack when he doesn't have a focus.

Or otherwise steal a focus.

I think it did make the tala-type filler a lot harder to use, the TLT meta.

There was an earlier comment about the Bossk+Gunner combo on a YV, and it is extremely potent(I used it with a tactician for that double stress action), with 5 Z-95s as an escort. The trouble is, the YV is really easy to burn down, and is an absolute MoV pinata. It's also not amazing in terms of damage output vs beef for what it costs. It's great against green dice though.

I do think the meta is headed toward beef with TLTs in the meta, though I think there's more room for YT-1300s than people think. It's just that C3P0 isn't the amazing defense he used to be. He's still great, just not so much in the TLT meta. 3 points for a free 5/8+ evade is great.

The Meta is usually based around people's fear of a ship more than a ship itself. Poe and Corran laughed at a TLT threat and also the builds made to counter them that usually didn't have the complete firepower to remove a regen ship off the table fast enough, so they came out on top. Regen and Stress are now valid fears in the meta moving forward. It you can get a ship that can still constantly damage while stressed, especially high damage, you'll be laughing. (See Kk dash. Gunner Boba. Guri. Ghost. Rear Admiral.)

Tycho I think is a highly valid option in the up coming meta, as will any 5 attack dice combo that can work under stress.

• I can't see why YV-666 with Bossk and gunner haven't made it to a top 32

because they nerfed Daredevil to a white + stress from Red maneuver.

otherwise Outlaw Tech is a must-have and lets Bossk have his action economy, otherwise heavily lacking.

buuuuuuuuuut

it's a "rebels win" game right now.

The meta right now is aces and TLT. Aces are annoying and OP but at least they're not commonly paired with fat turrets anymore.

Some other archetypes are viable like crack squadrons and dual IG's.

Still better than Fat Turretwing.

Lots of PS 2 ships floating around, like wardens and golds and blue squadrons so bids to PS 3-4 are worth it. PS 1 is a super no-go.

I think the Meta is pretty great. Lots of variety at worlds and locally. But folks on the inter will allways create an echo chamber that slowly chips away at representing things the way they are.

The Meta is usually based around people's fear of a ship more than a ship itself. Poe and Corran laughed at a TLT threat and also the builds made to counter them that usually didn't have the complete firepower to remove a regen ship off the table fast enough, so they came out on top. Regen and Stress are now valid fears in the meta moving forward. It you can get a ship that can still constantly damage while stressed, especially high damage, you'll be laughing. (See Kk dash. Gunner Boba. Guri. Ghost. Rear Admiral.)

Tycho I think is a highly valid option in the up coming meta, as will any 5 attack dice combo that can work under stress.

Oh, Also Kallus. Kallus on a Phantom or on Decimator. Screw Poe, I have a free hit and evade even when I'm stressed against you.

pfft

the idea that TLTs occupy anywhere near the same space that Whisper used to has to come from someone who simply has not played whisper pre-errata

they are not even in the same league

sure, they must be accounted for, in the same way anything powerful must be. Whisper had to be accounted for by nothing but sh*tty fat PWTs with higher PS and/or bid

for the empire, Crackshot has won wave 7

Juke may well soon follow in wave 8, what with some stellar Tie/Fos and the addition of the Tie/v1

it's almost trivial to murder a TLT Y with PS 4+ Jukes before they can TLT you to death

I think it did make the tala-type filler a lot harder to use, the TLT meta.

There was an earlier comment about the Bossk+Gunner combo on a YV, and it is extremely potent(I used it with a tactician for that double stress action), with 5 Z-95s as an escort. The trouble is, the YV is really easy to burn down, and is an absolute MoV pinata. It's also not amazing in terms of damage output vs beef for what it costs. It's great against green dice though.

I do think the meta is headed toward beef with TLTs in the meta, though I think there's more room for YT-1300s than people think. It's just that C3P0 isn't the amazing defense he used to be. He's still great, just not so much in the TLT meta. 3 points for a free 5/8+ evade is great.

TLT didn't really create these aces, just trimmed away the 60 point fat turret they were/would have been attached to. The current meta is like Fat Turretwing, minus the fat turrets lol.

I think however with PS 2 TLT boats being so common, that bids to PS 3-4 are relevant, which filler ships can do quite cheaply. Crackshot has made swarms viable again which is great because Genericwing is master race.

So the TLT meta has made filler ships a little more viable IMO. A Crack Squadron for 15 points is a steal. What has happened is that instead of flying a 40 point ace and 5 Academies, you can spend those 60 points on 4 Crack Squadrons and actually get some damage through.

The Meta as I see it in store championship season-

• Thrusters
• TLT
• Regen
• Stress
• 3+ attack Turret
• Guidance Chip Munitions....???

I think its too early to call. Rebel regen, TLTs, Aces +stress/support ships are currently strong, but unit we see all of what Wave 8 has to offer its just speculation.

I think it did make the tala-type filler a lot harder to use, the TLT meta.

There was an earlier comment about the Bossk+Gunner combo on a YV, and it is extremely potent(I used it with a tactician for that double stress action), with 5 Z-95s as an escort. The trouble is, the YV is really easy to burn down, and is an absolute MoV pinata. It's also not amazing in terms of damage output vs beef for what it costs. It's great against green dice though.

I do think the meta is headed toward beef with TLTs in the meta, though I think there's more room for YT-1300s than people think. It's just that C3P0 isn't the amazing defense he used to be. He's still great, just not so much in the TLT meta. 3 points for a free 5/8+ evade is great.

I don't think the TIE/Z filler is harder to use because of TLT, I think it's harder to use because of the likes of Super Corran and Poe and Soontir. Aces present a real problem for a ship with only 2 attack dice.

TLT didn't really create these aces, just trimmed away the 60 point fat turret they were/would have been attached to. The current meta is like Fat Turretwing, minus the fat turrets lol.

I actually agree vehemently here

TLTs absolutely prey upon high value ships, especially ye ole two ships which got away with trivially boosting out of arc and using mindless PWTs to dice you into oblivion. Well, now two can play at that game, except you get more TLTs

Apart from thrusters, TLTs really get around defensive tech (defense tokens, c3po) by splitting the damage between two attacks that allow no range 3 bonus. Furthermore, the fact that they aren't arc-locked makes it far more difficult for an ace to just broll/boost out of a shot.

Now, a normal TLT isn't enough to crack your corrans/poes/soontirs unless you have some incredible luck, which I most certainly do not (quite the opposite in fact ). But then, I tried out the TLT R4 Thug. Holy **** this thing'll pop holes through a regenerating, thruster Poe!

For rebels, well they don't even need dice. Tactician K-wings and the BTL-a4 r3-a2, god of stess, will neuter your aces without sh*tty green dice intervening

When it comes to considering matchups, the TLT Y is a flexible addition that doesn't have nearly as many problems as the typical B-wing does when it comes to chasing down hyper-mobile ships. Of course, this doesn't mean it's even close to as easy to use as a fat high PS PWT or pre-errata whisper, because it's still low PS without re-positioning capabilities and an easily exploited doughnut-hole which can make planning out formations far more complex than it seems.

I've personally been finding the old PS 1-2 generics to be more and more useless. Although they'll plaster opposing TLTs, they just suffer against aces. After planning and outplaying the opponent, your Z-95 swarm isn't putting **** through the guaranteed defensive tech of your typical ace. They're simply far too unreliable, and you have the dice to blame for that. The TLTs have far better chances of success and are far easier to apply.

There is, however, a silver-lining in the generic EPT. Crackshot and Juke Ties have been performing in a similar vein to TLTs, finally resulting in generics that can reliably damage aces after going through the trouble of trapping them. Even better, they devour TLTs with their excellent dials and higher PS of 4.

I tried out the TLT R4 Thug. Holy **** this thing'll pop holes through a regenerating, thruster Poe!

I simultaneously wish more and less people would fly this.

I tried out the TLT R4 Thug. Holy **** this thing'll pop holes through a regenerating, thruster Poe!

I simultaneously wish more and less people would fly this.

the dark underbelly of that awesome ship:

muk + TLT + bossk

2 TLT thugs w/r4

apparently steamrolled right through palpie + aces

I run it with VI+HLC+FCS+AT 88B as a big smacking stick, but yeah, all of the dice mods ever is nice.