Why use the word "before" on the card?

This card is making my brain itch due to the wording.

1) Ship flies over a mine, it explodes, resolve, and then remove. At this point deal 1 damage before you remove it. Makes sense.

2) Ship flies in range 1 of mine but not over, you are not removing it. This is still considered "Before" in the English language because you are not removing it. Overpowered, but wording points to this.

Why not use the word "when?" Is there a specific reason why they are using "before?"

"When" takes less space, less ink, and is clearer.

Mines and bombs work differently even though they occupy the same slot on a ship. Bombs always explode, mines hang around on the field. I think she only applies to bombs.

But when you remove it, at what point do you start to measure? When you've got the token in your hands or may have moved it?

That's probably why they used 'before'. It prevents arguments.

Mines and bombs work differently even though they occupy the same slot on a ship. Bombs always explode, mines hang around on the field. I think she only applies to bombs.

That is still up for contention, it applies to tokens and the rules reference cards always call the mines 'bomb tokens'.

That would mean mines apply as well.

But when you remove it, at what point do you start to measure? When you've got the token in your hands or may have moved it?

That's probably why they used 'before'. It prevents arguments.

I agree, this is likely why they chose this wording. Sure, it would have been nice if it said 'when a bomb detonates, before the token is removed' or something like that, but that's a lot of words, and the card is full as is. It's pretty clear anyway when it should be used, and though it's not the only interpretation available in this instance, it does work just fine.

Mines and bombs work differently even though they occupy the same slot on a ship. Bombs always explode, mines hang around on the field. I think she only applies to bombs.

Mines are bombs. That's not the question or discussion, though it is welcome.

It's more of what "before" in this case can mean. I think using before will cause more arguments.

I believe with Sabine in play - when any friendly mines or bombs activates (once per round). it will cause one guarantee damage (in addition to the effect/damage of the type mine or bomb) to an enemy ship (if exists) within range 1 of the token.

I agree with the OP - it should be "when". Even though nobody would actually suggest that a proximity mine gets to deal 1 damage to everyone near it every turn - if someone wanted to be a real jerk they could interpret it that way. Because, even if I don't remove my proximity mine for 10 turns.... now is still "before".

I agree with the OP - it should be "when". Even though nobody would actually suggest that a proximity mine gets to deal 1 damage to everyone near it every turn - if someone wanted to be a real jerk they could interpret it that way. Because, even if I don't remove my proximity mine for 10 turns.... now is still "before".

Once per turn, so yeah that's one damage each turn to ships in range one! Awesome! Totally OP!

When will FFG learn to use language that rules lawyers, I mean concerned players can only interpret one way. Obviously they meant when a bomb token is detonated but before it is removed from the playfield, but they didn't say that, did they.

It's like every release requires at least one FAQ. And it always pertains to the coolest updates.

If you put Sabine on a K-wing, does that ship then have three bomb slots?

I think "before" implies the order better than "when". It works in conjunction with the bomb rules card, as if adding a sentence before "then discard this token".

If you put Sabine on a K-wing, does that ship then have three bomb slots?

Wrong topic, that's being debated on on another thread.

I would say yes but there's some folks saying FFG messed up again and Sabine only gives a bomb slot if there isn't already one. It would actually give parity to be rebels since Empire and Scum get three bomb Firesprays.

hm. the card could have been written MUCH clearer.

there is the timing, there IS the "bomb" issue; (RAW mines are bombs, too.. I agree. but why not simply print the icon, or say "mines and bombs" if they mean mines and bomb? maybe they really mean only bomb-bombs and not mine-bombs?! argh.. they could have cleared that up in the 1st place..)

waiting for a FAQ on this, as I REALLY have no fun to discuss that out on a tournament..

I really don't mind the outcome, but welcome better wording.

there is the timing, there IS the "bomb" issue; (RAW mines are bombs, too.. I agree. but why not simply print the icon, or say "mines and bombs" if they mean mines and bomb? maybe they really mean only bomb-bombs and not mine-bombs?! argh.. they could have cleared that up in the 1st place..)

There really isn't an issue, there is nothing in the rules called a mine, at all. Yeah, some of them say 'mine' on the name of the card, so are you suggesting that Seismic Charges are not bombs because they don't say 'bomb' in the name? No, of course not, because they're bombs, in the EXACT same way Conner Nets, Cluster Mines, and Proximity Mines are; because the rules say they are. The detonation trigger has no effect on what they're called in the rules.*

Also, unfortunately using the icon isn't great either. For example, there are torpedo upgrades that are not "torpedoes" as most would think of them (Extra Munitions, Bomb Loadout), it's entirely possible at some point there will be a bomb slot upgrade that isn't an actual 'bomb'. Depending on what it is, that might cause confusion.

*No harshness was intended in this post, sorry if it sounds that way.

I believe in the Star Wars LCG they had to write in the definition of "before" and "after" because of effects like this. "Before" happens immediately before and "after" happens immediately after. Using the word "immediately" solves the issue because it means nothing else can happen between the point at which you use the "before" ability and the trigger it must precede.

why not simply... say "mines and bombs" if they mean mines and bomb?

Because the word "mine" doesn't mean anything in the rules. It is just a word used in the names of a few upgrades, it has no more meaning in the game than "Recon" or "Conner" or "Proton".

Similarly, there is nothing in the rules that distinguishes one type of bomb upgrade from another. If the rules say "bomb" with no other qualifiers (like "bomb that detonates at the end of the activation phase") then it refers to all upgrades that have the "bomb" upgrade icon.

Period. End of Story. It really is that simple. All the additional meanings that we as players add to them are just shorthand ways of classifying things based on similarities that we choose to identify.

there is the timing, there IS the "bomb" issue; (RAW mines are bombs, too.. I agree. but why not simply print the icon, or say "mines and bombs" if they mean mines and bomb? maybe they really mean only bomb-bombs and not mine-bombs?! argh.. they could have cleared that up in the 1st place..)

There really isn't an issue, there is nothing in the rules called a mine, at all. Yeah, some of them say 'mine' on the name of the card, so are you suggesting that Seismic Charges are not bombs because they don't say 'bomb' in the name? No, of course not, because they're bombs, in the EXACT same way Conner Nets, Cluster Mines, and Proximity Mines are; because the rules say they are. The detonation trigger has no effect on what they're called in the rules.*

Also, unfortunately using the icon isn't great either. For example, there are torpedo upgrades that are not "torpedoes" as most would think of them (Extra Munitions, Bomb Loadout), it's entirely possible at some point there will be a bomb slot upgrade that isn't an actual 'bomb'. Depending on what it is, that might cause confusion.

*No harshness was intended in this post, sorry if it sounds that way.

why not simply... say "mines and bombs" if they mean mines and bomb?

Because the word "mine" doesn't mean anything in the rules. It is just a word used in the names of a few upgrades, it has no more meaning in the game than "Recon" or "Conner" or "Proton".

Similarly, there is nothing in the rules that distinguishes one type of bomb upgrade from another. If the rules say "bomb" with no other qualifiers (like "bomb that detonates at the end of the activation phase") then it refers to all upgrades that have the "bomb" upgrade icon.

Period. End of Story. It really is that simple. All the additional meanings that we as players add to them are just shorthand ways of classifying things based on similarities that we choose to identify.

I'm not doubting that it's mines and bombs. though, in the first 2secs when the card was revealed I was, I'll freely admit that

the thing is: the wording is wobbly-wonky-unclear to let the mind run circles on "what the hell are they trying to say.."

---> WILL lead to discussion every time the game really counts for something (read: tournament), cause people simply are wired that way.

so I really hope a FAQ-entry will explain it as simple as "does sabine also +1 on mines, john connor nets & co?" - "duh.. yeah".

same for the trigger "before"; we all know what they mean, but the **** who says "well, turn3 is before turn7 when will mine will eventually explode" is technically right, even though it is nonsense.

the designers do a **** good job on this game - IMHO. but the cards should be proofread by a ruleslawyer several times, just to prevent unclear things. also, (explained!) keywords would go a long way.

Honestly, I don't see a problem here.

It has to be before the token is removed, as otherwise there isn't a token from which to measure range.

Also, if you're differentiating between "Mines" and "Bombs", where do Seismic Charges and Connor's Nets fit in? Do we have 4 subcategories of the slot now?

A Bomb is a Bomb if:

1. It occupies the _(⁽0^₎) slot
2. It deploys a token from a ship
3. That token has rules for Detonation

I am tired of seeing this argument.