man why are imperial players so **** angry all the time

...When turreted ships came out, it really altered the game in a fundamental way. Suddenly every Imperial list had to be able to cope with turrets, but Rebels didn't really have to change how they built their lists besides incorporating the new ships and upgrades. But no one listened to us then. Fast forward to the Phantom, and suddenly Rebel players could be heard from the top of Everest, and FFG nerfed the Phantom… only to then go and created Hera, who arguably (i said arguably!) has a very similar versatility built in. So I think there is this perspective that Rebel players get more… hmm… I want to say "catered to".

edit: oh yay! I just realized who I was replying to! It's been a while, how have you been?

not to be a complete ass, but Hera doesn't have nearly as much versatility as the pre-errata Phantom's craziness; not even arguably

in fact, apparently the only thing that could reliably match the phantom's nastiness (apart from PS 10 control as the BTL-a4 + r3-a2 Y didn't exist yet) was dumbass PWTs, which the empire got during the dark ages of Wave 5

If I had to guess why the indignant imperials are so indignant, I'd probably have to point at a "grass is greener" syndrome, at least specifically for Wave 8.

Simple fact is, the empire is "only" getting two small Ties (or three if you count the extras in the Gonzati)

Of course, those two small Ties could be incredibly ridiculous (and the spoiled FO + the Inquisitor already are) but they don't have the wow! factor of the massive Ghost expansion, which houses literally the largest model in the standard game + an adorable lil' lego shuttle.

It's very easy to overlook the little FO and TAPs when you're staring at that glorious monster of a machine, but it's still an act of overlooking how awesome our new acquisitions are

that, and we still havn't had the Guidance Chip (chimp?) modification spoiled. It promises to work only with missiles and torps, so it's good for both factions, but lets not pretend that the humble bomber isn't the most efficient ordnance specialist in the game at a mere 16 points base.

So, just to remind everyone of the incredible nastiness the empire is acquiring in Wave 8, here's a small sampling

I don't get why so many people are citing Imperial hurt over the Advance as proof we're all whiners. It was demonstrably overcosted. You could look right at the stats and see how much you were paying for them, then look at the X-Wing and break it down the same way, and you were flat out paying more for less. The Advance straight up never saw any real tourney play, but the X-Wing saw a shitload of it, named pilots or not. The X-wing was, essentially "good until now", whereas the Advance was never good.

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt. They were used to flying forgiving ships, and suddenly there was a ship that made them pay for their lack of vision. When turrets came, arc-dodgers learned to cope with their action economy and learning how to fly around them, how to go after key targets more effectively. Against a Phantom, you just have to take smaller maneuvers, and try to overlap your cones of fire. Sure, there's this horse drivel of "oh waaah it can wind up anywhere" and that's true, from a certain point of view. Sure it can go anywhere, but when you actually look at the board, there's only a set number of places it will go. Because the others don't make any **** sense. In our store meta at least, they actually got phased out because Imperial players planned around them with upgrades that gave them good action economy like Predator (so they can use rerolls for attack and take evades), and rebel players just went "where is the most devastating place it could end up" and parked their fat arses there so the Phantom couldn't. And god forbid you actually try to bait one out with your best piece and bring the rest of the squad up around the flank. Imperials got out of the car and grew up, while all across the meta it seemed that Rebel players sat in their car seats sulking until FFG came and unbuckled them. And now here I am looking at a board full of people complaining about the X-Wing!? One of the most broadly dependable and effective ships in the game? Are you kidding me!?

-sigh-

Ok, I gotta bring myself down a bit here.

Granted, I will say this: I really do like what the Phantom nerf has done to the meta. It really has, unarguably, leveled out the list types and diversified the game again. But!I I will staunchly assert that it is far more because of players, than because of power. People can complain all they like, say silly things like "Imperials control the meta" all they like, but that doesn't change the fact that the champion players all win with Rebel lists for a reason.

I don't get why so many people are citing Imperial hurt over the Advance as proof we're all whiners. It was demonstrably overcosted. You could look right at the stats and see how much you were paying for them, then look at the X-Wing and break it down the same way, and you were flat out paying more for less. The Advance straight up never saw any real tourney play, but the X-Wing saw a shitload of it, named pilots or not. The X-wing was, essentially "good until now", whereas the Advance was never good.

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt. They were used to flying forgiving ships, and suddenly there was a ship that made them pay for their lack of vision. When turrets came, arc-dodgers learned to cope with their action economy and learning how to fly around them, how to go after key targets more effectively. Against a Phantom, you just have to take smaller maneuvers, and try to overlap your cones of fire. Sure, there's this horse drivel of "oh waaah it can wind up anywhere" and that's true, from a certain point of view. Sure it can go anywhere, but when you actually look at the board, there's only a set number of places it will go. Because the others don't make any **** sense. In our store meta at least, they actually got phased out because Imperial players planned around them with upgrades that gave them good action economy like Predator (so they can use rerolls for attack and take evades), and rebel players just went "where is the most devastating place it could end up" and parked their fat arses there so the Phantom couldn't. And god forbid you actually try to bait one out with your best piece and bring the rest of the squad up around the flank. Imperials got out of the car and grew up, while all across the meta it seemed that Rebel players sat in their car seats sulking until FFG came and unbuckled them. And now here I am looking at a board full of people complaining about the X-Wing!? One of the most broadly dependable and effective ships in the game? Are you kidding me!?

-sigh-

Ok, I gotta bring myself down a bit here.

Granted, I will say this: I really do like what the Phantom nerf has done to the meta. It really has, unarguably, leveled out the list types and diversified the game again. But!I I will staunchly assert that it is far more because of players, than because of power. People can complain all they like, say silly things like "Imperials control the meta" all they like, but that doesn't change the fact that the champion players all win with Rebel lists for a reason.

What evidence (not anecdotes) do you have to back up your claim that the T-65 is one of the mose effective and dependable ships in the game?

The Imperial whiners concern trolling about X-Wing fixes right after they got a massive fix for the Advance is just silly.

I don't get why so many people are citing Imperial hurt over the Advance as proof we're all whiners.

Has anyone done that? I've seen a few comments about how the way some Imp players troll the 'fix the X-Wing' threads as proof, but no one ever denied that the Advanced needed a fix.

I'd also say that 9 out of 10 posts about FFG favoring one faction over the other is always an Imperial player going on about how FFG hates the Empire.

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt.

And comments like this don't help either.

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt.

And comments like this don't help either.

oh man you better believe it

especially since the dominating list of Waves 1-3 was the Tie Swarm, which the phantom displaced

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt.

And comments like this don't help either.

oh man you better believe it

especially since the dominating list of Waves 1-3 was the Tie Swarm, which the phantom displaced

Ironicaly the most problematic evolution in the Phantom meta was Rebel players adapting by playing Fat Han.

Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock.

This said: With Rebel and Scum having 12-16 point swarmers, can Imp have more PWT and Turret slots now PLEASE!

Right now Imp is the only faction without a unique slot type.

Other than that, no complaints and y'all know I am primarily Imp.

Rock Paper Scissors Lizard Spock.

This said: With Rebel and Scum having 12-16 point swarmers, can Imp have more PWT and Turret slots now PLEASE!

Right now Imp is the only faction without a unique slot type.

Other than that, no complaints and y'all know I am primarily Imp.

actually, every faction is without a unique slot type apart from scum

scum and rebs have turrets,

rebs and imps have tech

only scum have illicits

inb4 rebs have everything etc.

Well, I would view Astromechs and Salvaged Astromechs as unique to their factions.

oh right

I forgot about r3-a2, r2-d2 and unhinged, r4

but then we can't ignore the empire's secret upgrade slot, ships that kick ass without the need for unique upgrade slots

except the poor defender

It was Astros I was thinking of for Reb/Scum.

THIS SAID: Given Imps uniform style. Maybe they don't need anything unique to them - as long as they get regular point deductions cause of it.

Mighty Imperial war machine.

The issue I feel a lot of Imperial players have is that the current meta revolves around:

-TLT's

-Regen

-Control (stresshog)

Imps have access to none of these things. Which in of itself is fine, but not having any comparable unique faction specific mechanics like the Rebels can feel like favoritism. With the current meta it can be a little hard to get excited about getting MORE 2 Attack ships. Luckily, it seems like FFG is trying to assuage that with some awesome pilot abilities. I don't know if it will be enough to get the Imps to the final table for Worlds 2016, but I'm still excited to put the Imps on the table at my FLGS.

And honestly, the Phantom changed the game because the Rebel players didn't adapt.

Statements like this obliterate any credibility you may have had.

People can complain all they like, say silly things like "Imperials control the meta" all they like, but that doesn't change the fact that the champion players all win with Rebel lists for a reason.

• UK Nationals Champion: Brobots
• German / Austrian / Swiss Nationals Champion: Brobots
• Slovakia/Czech Republic Nationals Champion: Brobots
• Dutch Nationals Champion: Soontir Fel + Obsidian swarm
• French Nationals Champion: 4 AP + 4 Obsidians
• Australian Nationals Champion: Brobots
• Polish Nationals Champion: Thug Life
• Spanish Nationals Champion: Thug Life
• NZ Nationals Champion: Whisper/Vader/Colzet

List of National Championship lists...

It's always funny when someone's claim gets obliterated like that.

To add to the list, while the US nationals was won by a Rebel list, the 2nd place was Imperials.

To add to the list, while the US nationals was won by a Rebel list, the 2nd place was Imperials.

Now that you bring it up:

2012 Worlds Champion: TIE swarm

2013 Worlds 2nd: TIE swarm

2014 Worlds 2nd: Whisper/Howlswarm

Just to add to it, here's the 2014 national championship lists.

• UK – Imp, Imp
• Italy – S&V. ???
• France Imp, Imp
• Nordic – Reb, Imp
• US – Imp, Reb
• Australia – Imp, Reb
• Germany – Imp, Imp
• Poland – Reb, Reb
• Netherlands – Imp, Imp
• Malayisa – Reb, Imp
• Spain – Reb, Reb
• Canada – Reb, Reb
• New Zealand – Reb, Imp

I make that to be 13 Imperial lists to 11 Rebel lists in the finals for the 2014 Nationals.

If you look at List Juggler for every tournament recorded there, the top 10 ships have 4 Rebels vs 5 Imperials.

But seriously, let's get back on the topic of FFG always favoring Rebels. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/12/14/rule-the-skies/

But seriously, let's get back on the topic of FFG always favoring Rebels. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/12/14/rule-the-skies/

It does validate what a lot of us have been saying for ages now, they were dud ships that required the alignment of stars and cosmos, in order to get them to work.

+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

Certain mathwingers said it was 4 points overcosted. And it got a 4 point free slot title, which totally brings it up to par, a very good solution!

But then the same mathwingers said that the X-Wing was about 2 points overcosted (in jousting value that is). And IA gives a "free hitpoint", but then again we don't have free astromechs, except the new unique "Chopper". So you have to buy something that you don't need for the most part for 1 point minimum to get a free hitpoint along with it. That's not as good as it seems because it's further overcosting the ship, and there is just no astromech that is good enough to consistently want it. And the ones that are are unique and you actually don't want to dump them!

So, you might call it cautious, but i stay with my description! Because it's obvious that this is not enough to make is see any more X-Wings on the table. We might see some people try them, but then quickly put them away again. Generics are still worse in jousting than BSPs and the Aces direly need mobility to work. Which they don't get at a decent price!

But seriously, let's get back on the topic of FFG always favoring Rebels. https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/12/14/rule-the-skies/

This is so excellent, and well deserved as a fix. And it might even work!

Just to add to it, here's the 2014 national championship lists.

• UK – Imp, Imp
• Italy – S&V. ???
• France Imp, Imp
• Nordic – Reb, Imp
• US – Imp, Reb
• Australia – Imp, Reb
• Germany – Imp, Imp
• Poland – Reb, Reb
• Netherlands – Imp, Imp
• Malayisa – Reb, Imp
• Spain – Reb, Reb
• Canada – Reb, Reb
• New Zealand – Reb, Imp

I make that to be 13 Imperial lists to 11 Rebel lists in the finals for the 2014 Nationals.

If you look at List Juggler for every tournament recorded there, the top 10 ships have 4 Rebels vs 5 Imperials.

Seems like Scum indeed does have a problem...

Face it all you Imps are going to get it!

Im going to take regionals with Defenders and then we can all moan and cry in our milk together like real IMPS!

Imperials get a ship that ignores red manouvers! Or gets infinite Crackshot! What new negative are they going to ignore this time?

On a more serious note, this is the perfect time for FFG to announce this, the excitement level is the same as for the Ghost. I just can't wait for infinite range Target Locks for my Bombers and those double tapping Defenders look amazing, not to mention the other title. Exciting times all around.

Double tapping Defenders?

(edit: oh, nevermind, I see it)

Uhgod, still playing catch up after a year...

+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

That is certainly true. The Advanced was probably the most useless ship out there and it deserved a fix.

Certain mathwingers said it was 4 points overcosted. And it got a 4 point free slot title, which totally brings it up to par, a very good solution!

But then the same mathwingers said that the X-Wing was about 2 points overcosted (in jousting value that is). And IA gives a "free hitpoint", but then again we don't have free astromechs, except the new unique "Chopper". So you have to buy something that you don't need for the most part for 1 point minimum to get a free hitpoint along with it. That's not as good as it seems because it's further overcosting the ship, and there is just no astromech that is good enough to consistently want it. And the ones that are are unique and you actually don't want to dump them!

So Integrated astromech is not worth it because the Astromech's are not worth it? Your patterns of logic are at odds. Integrated Astromech now gives every Mech the added ability of being discarded to save you a hull point. That means every single 1pt mech on an X-Wing is more than worth it. So ship is two points overcosted, spends one point to get on extra hull. Hull upgrade is three points......everything is fine.