What new negative do rebels get to ignore this time

By barriecritzer, in X-Wing

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Because we let the b*tthurt flow through us like cosmic blue ragejuice.

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Edited by banjobenito
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^ Banjo don't let me start about your Kanan Chicken Little Thread. It's nearly as bad as this one. Just that of you i expected better. I have read quite some intelligent posts of you!

You shoukd know that Kanan will see table time, but he is nowhere near OP. And if he was we can't know it now!

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Let sleeping Jedi lie, I reckon! As you say, we'll see how he fares soon enough, but for my money he's the stand-out upgrade card from the new wave, that we've seen so far.

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I just can't imagine getting so worked up over anything like this. Surely, if you've got units you like you can find a way to make them work?

I've never seen much of a problem with the X-Wing anyway.

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Because the Rebels are the good guys, and they are supposed to win...

...puts helmet on and holds up riot shield... :rolleyes:

Your thinking of space marines.

You better not be talking about 40k space marines, every faction is bad. The least bad one is Tau. That being said I use Night Lords.

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We have a meta right now that is pretty much totally balanced and all 3 factions have a good number of competitive lists.

There are some fluff differences between them (which is really good), but for the first time ever we have more than 2 archetypes performing well.

This isn't really true for Scum. There are only two top performing Scum lists (Brobots and 4xTLT), and they make up a small minority of top lists.

This. Scum did beyond terrible at Worlds (percentage wise, in Top 16 there were less than half the Scum lists that entered worlds).

But that's not the scums fault. They are still playing catch up. Next wave will see a big shake up ,imo.

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I think that scum suffers at the moment because other than quad TLT y wings it is really difficult to make a good scum list without using at least 1 large ship

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I really didn't feel too bad about it till today. Pretty much every card shown is instant play and comborific, which is great for the terrorists, but yah, feeling a bit behind the curve RIGHT NOW as one of the Emperors chosen... I'm sure FFG will make it right soon.

And I don't buy the whole "good guys get more stuff" bit. A) the rebellion are terrorists, therefore not "good". B) even if you believe the Imperials to be "bad", shouldn't they be even more bada$$ to make the "light shine brighter" and all that?

Actually the Imperials are the terrorists. They use fear to coerce people into submission. That is the core definition of terrorism. The Rebels are not shown to do this; in fact most of their screen time is spent either trying to sabotage Imperial fear machines, or simply struggling to survive against the Empire.

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We have a meta right now that is pretty much totally balanced and all 3 factions have a good number of competitive lists.

There are some fluff differences between them (which is really good), but for the first time ever we have more than 2 archetypes performing well.

This isn't really true for Scum. There are only two top performing Scum lists (Brobots and 4xTLT), and they make up a small minority of top lists.

This. Scum did beyond terrible at Worlds (percentage wise, in Top 16 there were less than half the Scum lists that entered worlds).

You should look at the Top 32, which was the cut last year. They did a lot better than what you are claiming.

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Not trying to be mean, but those are all far from top level squads. Most notably they all would be destroyed by Soontir and Whisper with their standart builds.

The power level of these squads is about the same as that of the average imperial list that is cobbeled together quickly. You can win a Store Champ with those things, but that depends on the area, player skill and luck. Above that it gets really difficult.

Now let me give you squads that I would be comfortable with taking on anything you came up with there:

Are those enough lists for you? The empire has about as much "nice, but not quite there" lists as the rebels do. Don't fool yourself.

None of those have a reliable source of control, damage, synergy, regen, etc. Which is where the meta's at.

Try again? hint, it can't be done. :)

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Not trying to be mean, but those are all far from top level squads. Most notably they all would be destroyed by Soontir and Whisper with their standart builds.

The power level of these squads is about the same as that of the average imperial list that is cobbeled together quickly. You can win a Store Champ with those things, but that depends on the area, player skill and luck. Above that it gets really difficult.

Now let me give you squads that I would be comfortable with taking on anything you came up with there:

Are those enough lists for you? The empire has about as much "nice, but not quite there" lists as the rebels do. Don't fool yourself.

None of those have a reliable source of control, damage, synergy, regen, etc. Which is where the meta's at.

Try again? hint, it can't be done. :)

Or you could read, and not just shitpost. Half those lists are about jamming out damage as hard as possible

Edited by Wilhelm Screamer
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*shiptoast, ftfy

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*shiptoast, ftfy

Both work.

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I think that scum suffers at the moment because other than quad TLT y wings it is really difficult to make a good scum list without using at least 1 large ship

But honestly, there were some scum lists on worlds that were not Brobots or 4 TLT.

By the way if we look at top 16 we have hardly any duplicate lists anymore, and if we take a look at Heavers winning list or Nathan's 2nd place list, they are sound and solid, but far from unbeatable. In fact i flew Nathan's exact list a few times on local tournaments and did well with it, but no one ever even acknowledged it as a top meta pick.

So what that tells us is that pilot and luck determine victory more than the absolute cookie cutter list at the moment. Which is great.

And as a consequence, even if Scum were at a slight disadvantage in listbuilding, we could very well have seen a Scum World champion. You can build good competitive lists with them even outside Brobots and TLTs.

I saw some excellent Guri lists for example designed to counter TLTs and running a few itself.

There is also the fact that everyone thought the new world champion list would be either 4TLTs or Palpmobile. So it was a bit surprising to see Rebels perform that well... But to now say Rebels are OP because they ignore game mechanics is falling from one extreme to the other!

Edited by ForceM
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man why are imperial players so **** angry all the time

Well, speaking as a dedicated Buckethead, my guess would be this:

Imperials are underrepresented in entertainment media. if you want to play a rebel, there's so many games you can play to scratch that itch, and there are many shows you can watch as well. Meanwhile, people who have an affinity for absolute order in the galaxy are busy trying to figure out how to get a flight sim from 1996 to work on their current computers. So we kinda feel left out sometimes. Also, what with there being so many Rebel heroes in games and shows, there's just a bigger wealth of characters to pull abilities from. Meanwhile, they're busy making **** up in order to get Imperial pilots. Now, I may be wrong on this, but I think that tends to create this effect where Rebel stuff just feels stronger when you look at it, because the creators are able to go "ok, this person did this in the show, so that's how they function in the game."

Secondly, it seems Rebel players get listened to more. When turreted ships came out, it really altered the game in a fundamental way. Suddenly every Imperial list had to be able to cope with turrets, but Rebels didn't really have to change how they built their lists besides incorporating the new ships and upgrades. But no one listened to us then. Fast forward to the Phantom, and suddenly Rebel players could be heard from the top of Everest, and FFG nerfed the Phantom… only to then go and created Hera, who arguably (i said arguably!) has a very similar versatility built in. So I think there is this perspective that Rebel players get more… hmm… I want to say "catered to".

edit: oh yay! I just realized who I was replying to! It's been a while, how have you been?

Edited by That One Guy
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Salty thread is salty.

Seriously, none of the factions have a serious advantage over another. They're all equally capable of winning games and tournaments. If you want to complain about one faction getting priority over ALL of the others, I hear Games Workshop calling out to you...

I took a twin Scum Firespray (Kath [PTL] and a Merc [Crack Shot, both with HLCs, K4s, and Dampeners]) to a local tournament a few weeks ago, and came second by MOV to BroBotsTM, and am planning on flying it competitively at Store championships in the upcoming tournament season until Ghost hits the shelves. Last season, I had great success with Soontir and The Frenchman. The season after, who knows? Maybe the First Order will get a truly bad ass ship from the new film that just so happens to stack perfectly in to 97/98 points with Soontir "clean up" Fel and Whisper/Echo (whichever is your preference) with a pilot called Sayl Ine, and an ability that somehow shuts down Rebel Ace pilot abilities, or something else equally OP that will have Rebel players creating salt threads for.

I guess my point is this: too much sodium is bad for you, as it raises your blood pressure. Relax, take a deep breath, and realise that in upcoming waves, the bucketheads over at the Galactic Empire and First Order will cycle back around to being top dog with something the other two factions will consider OP.

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We have a meta right now that is pretty much totally balanced and all 3 factions have a good number of competitive lists.

There are some fluff differences between them (which is really good), but for the first time ever we have more than 2 archetypes performing well.

This isn't really true for Scum. There are only two top performing Scum lists (Brobots and 4xTLT), and they make up a small minority of top lists.

This. Scum did beyond terrible at Worlds (percentage wise, in Top 16 there were less than half the Scum lists that entered worlds).

You should look at the Top 32, which was the cut last year. They did a lot better than what you are claiming.

You're right (somewhat). Top 32 had 10/32 Scum lists. It's still bad that 8 out of those 10 lists were in the bottom half of Top 32.

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inquisitor.png

OP: Shush.

oh great

what positives do imperials get to ignore this time?

hint: it's green dice

emperor-palpatine.png

I mean, being able to change ANY of your dice once per round? You might as well not even roll to attack Soontir when he's on the field!

What key game mechanic will the Imperials get to ignore next?

(lets keep this going please :lol: )

speaking of ignoring game mechanics, FREE ACCURACY CORRECTORS NEVER ROLL DICE :D

also, ADVANCED TARGETING COMPUTER ADDS RESULTS REGARDLESS OF ROLL!

appropriately, the ATCs and AC coupons came in the same pack as the emperor :P

belated sky is falling!

next on the docket: Darth Vader (both versions, ignoring action limit on one and dice on the other), Deathrain (Front bombs!? wtf is this unholiness?) and Carnor Jax (but focus is the most ubiquitous action in the game :(!?)

You do make a good point on one of the Imperials strength and that is to have consistent results. Sure Imperials are still playable they did make the top cut. But the new stuff they are getting is less than stellar. When you look at the new releases from Wave 7 through 8 It is like being that kid at Christmas getting only a sweater while your cousins get a new RC car and a new xbox/playstation/nintendo.

Are you sh*tting me?

It's nothing like that. That's like getting a Rebels A-Wing released alongside a brand new base that's standard-legal and better than every other ship.

Which The Ghost, as someone who's flown ships with 0 Agility, is most certainly friggin' not.I'll definitely run it- hell it might be my main ship. But that doesn't make it the best.

I not calling it the best, but out of wave 8 it has the most weight when compared to the Imperial's recent releases. Maybe in Wave 9 they'll get something that is more of a game changer btu every wave has something that changes it. Wave 7 was TLT which Imperials do not have. What the game changer for Wave 8 who know, I don't think it will be the TAP though.

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man why are imperial players so **** angry all the time

Well, speaking as a dedicated Buckethead, my guess would be this:

Imperials are underrepresented in entertainment media. if you want to play a rebel, there's so many games you can play to scratch that itch, and there are many shows you can watch as well. Meanwhile, people who have an affinity for absolute order in the galaxy are busy trying to figure out how to get a flight sim from 1996 to work on their current computers. So we kinda feel left out sometimes. Also, what with there being so many Rebel heroes in games and shows, there's just a bigger wealth of characters to pull abilities from. Meanwhile, they're busy making **** up in order to get Imperial pilots. Now, I may be wrong on this, but I think that tends to create this effect where Rebel stuff just feels stronger when you look at it, because the creators are able to go "ok, this person did this in the show, so that's how they function in the game."

Secondly, it seems Rebel players get listened to more. When turreted ships came out, it really altered the game in a fundamental way. Suddenly every Imperial list had to be able to cope with turrets, but Rebels didn't really have to change how they built their lists besides incorporating the new ships and upgrades. But no one listened to us then. Fast forward to the Phantom, and suddenly Rebel players could be heard from the top of Everest, and FFG nerfed the Phantom… only to then go and created Hera, who arguably (i said arguably!) has a very similar versatility built in. So I think there is this perspective that Rebel players get more… hmm… I want to say "catered to".

edit: oh yay! I just realized who I was replying to! It's been a while, how have you been?

Also Wave 1 and 2 were utterly dominated by Tie Swarms, Then came a brief period where the Force hung in balance, before the Phantom came. And that nearly broke the game. By its presence and consequences. You flew Phantoms or its absolute hard counters. Nothing in between! Which then lead to Large Turretwing after the Phantom got nerfed, until TLT made that obsolete.

So imperial ships have been defining the whole meta for the majority of the game's existence. Nerfing the Phantom was probably the best idea FFG ever had. And that comes from someone that flew it in Tournaments a lot! It was just ridiculously powerful. If the enemy had no hard counter, there were Games where no one even got to shoot my Phantom! That was just stupidly OP if you ask me since i don't claim to be the best player around. I didn't even have to guess, just look where he goes, adapt decloak, done.

Another case: Imperial players were lamenting about the Tie Advanced so much that FFG finally gave in and fixed it. Which is actually fully understandable and i appreciate it.

But then on the other hand Rebel players were equally lamenting about the X-Wing. It was not as bad as the Advanced, but still bad enough that you hardly ever saw it played, especially in competition. And what haplened? We now get a relly unappealing and half-assed fix with Integrated Astromech. A year after the Advanced, and then it's something that will not be enough to push the ship back into the meta, since one of it's main problems, mobility, remains untouched.

On the other hand they got the T-70, which exactly shows that FFG understood really well what was wrong with the T-65... Mobility and durability! But we will probably wait for a real T-65 fix until the end of time as it is!

And i can't count the times that Imperial players got vocal in "fix the X-Wing" threads in ways that showed nothing else but envy and a general lack of understanding. Since i hardly ever saw a Rebel player do the same in a "fix the Advanced" thread at the time, you know where my sympathies must lie, even if i play all 3 factions!

Edit: And i also feel with our Scum players. It is true that you have good lists and benefit most from TLT perhaps. But then arguably having fewer competitive options than the other factions and still get hit by the nerfbat hardest on Brobots is quite a blow. And then by a nerf that was probably more targetet at large Turretwing than at Brobots. Feelsbadman...

Edited by ForceM
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Not trying to be mean, but those are all far from top level squads. Most notably they all would be destroyed by Soontir and Whisper with their standart builds.

The power level of these squads is about the same as that of the average imperial list that is cobbeled together quickly. You can win a Store Champ with those things, but that depends on the area, player skill and luck. Above that it gets really difficult.

Now let me give you squads that I would be comfortable with taking on anything you came up with there:

Are those enough lists for you? The empire has about as much "nice, but not quite there" lists as the rebels do. Don't fool yourself.

None of those have a reliable source of control, damage, synergy, regen, etc. Which is where the meta's at.

Try again? hint, it can't be done. :)

Or you could read, and not just shitpost. Half those lists are about jamming out damage as hard as possible

Those lists are almost all about the Alpha, some are even admitted to be unreliable (and all but 1 are), and some don't fare well at all given a non-optimal initial approach (e.g. Bombers & TL, or even worse, vs Biggs) + against the ever present swingy dice.

Imperial 3-ship lists outside of Palpmobile doesn't perform consistently where the game is now and there is a reason we never see Punishers or Bombers in the top, they need to perform across an entire day, vs various lists.

I am sorry if I broke your rose-tinted glasses but maybe, YOU could read my 2 posts; prior to the above, instead of "shitposting" ?

Its right there, in front of your eyes, try it. Go on.

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man why are imperial players so **** angry all the time

Well, speaking as a dedicated Buckethead, my guess would be this:

Imperials are underrepresented in entertainment media. if you want to play a rebel, there's so many games you can play to scratch that itch, and there are many shows you can watch as well. Meanwhile, people who have an affinity for absolute order in the galaxy are busy trying to figure out how to get a flight sim from 1996 to work on their current computers. So we kinda feel left out sometimes. Also, what with there being so many Rebel heroes in games and shows, there's just a bigger wealth of characters to pull abilities from. Meanwhile, they're busy making **** up in order to get Imperial pilots. Now, I may be wrong on this, but I think that tends to create this effect where Rebel stuff just feels stronger when you look at it, because the creators are able to go "ok, this person did this in the show, so that's how they function in the game."

Secondly, it seems Rebel players get listened to more. When turreted ships came out, it really altered the game in a fundamental way. Suddenly every Imperial list had to be able to cope with turrets, but Rebels didn't really have to change how they built their lists besides incorporating the new ships and upgrades. But no one listened to us then. Fast forward to the Phantom, and suddenly Rebel players could be heard from the top of Everest, and FFG nerfed the Phantom… only to then go and created Hera, who arguably (i said arguably!) has a very similar versatility built in. So I think there is this perspective that Rebel players get more… hmm… I want to say "catered to".

edit: oh yay! I just realized who I was replying to! It's been a while, how have you been?

I actually play all 3 factions and i always was under the firm impression that Imperial players were the absolute loudest on this forum.

Also Wave 1 and 2 were utterly dominated by Tie Swarms, Then came a brief period where the Force hung in balance, before the Phantom came. And that nearly broke the game. By its presence and consequences. You flew Phantoms or its absolute hard counters. Nothing in between! Which then lead to Large Turretwing after the Phantom got nerfed, until TLT made that obsolete.

So imperial ships have been defining the whole meta for the majority of the game's existence. Nerfing the Phantom was probably the best idea FFG ever had. And that comes from someone that flew it in Tournaments a lot! It was just ridiculously powerful. If the enemy had no hard counter, there were Games where no one even got to shoot my Phantom! That was just stupidly OP if you ask me since i don't claim to be the best player around. I didn't even have to guess, just look where he goes, adapt decloak, done.

Another case: Imperial players were lamenting about the Tie Advanced so much that FFG finally gave in and fixed it. Which is actually fully understandable and i appreciate it.

But then on the other hand Rebel players were equally lamenting about the X-Wing. It was not as bad as the Advanced, but still bad enough that you hardly ever saw it played, especially in competition. Abd what haplened? We now get a relly unappealing and half-assed fix with Integrated Astromech. A year after the Advanced, and then it's something that will not be enough to push the ship back into the meta, since one of it's main problems, mobility, remains untouched.

On the other hand they got the T-70, which exactly shows that FFG understood really well what was wrong with the T-65... Mobility and durability! But we will probably wait for avreal T-65 fix until the end if time as it is!

And i can't count the times that Imperial players got vocal in "fix the X-Wing" threads in ways that showed nothing else but envy and a general lack of understanding". Since i hardly ever saw a Rebel player do the same in a "fix the Advanced" thread at the time, you know where my sympathies must lie, even if i play all 3 factions!

Edit: And i also feel with our Scum players. It is true that you have good lists and benefit most from TLT perhaps. But then arguably having fewer competitive options than the other factions and still get hit by the nerfbat hardest on Brobots is quite a blow. And then by a nerf that was probably more targetet at large Turretwing than at Brobots. Feelsbadman...

+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

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+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

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+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

Exactly. And since when is the X-wing's mobility one of its major problems? From my perception, they have always been straight up jousters, and were never meant to function as arc dodgers. They work well in groups, pounding damage down your throat in a collected effort with other ships, then K-turning to do it again. FFG making the T-70 have boost, a better dial and a shield more doesn't say anything about their feelings on the T-65 other than that the T-70 is supposed to fill a different space in the game than it.

Perhaps the Rebel players really are more whiny than the Imperial players are, because when we get a fix, we whine it's not good enough. Please, I'm begging other rebel players to give it at least a couple months after IA is released until you begin complaining for something more. Yes, there may need to be more, but in my opinion, that is due more to the issue jousters overall are having, not the T-65 specifically.

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+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

Kind of agree. Hyperbole aside, overall FFG have done well balancing all the moving parts across an increasingly complex spectrum. And yes, the T-65 needed a more subtle fix than the Adv, but we really need a bunch of GOOD droids (Something to buff action economy for the T-65 a'la K4 droid) before IA becomes the fix The X Wing deserves. As it stands IA is pretty Bleh!

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+1 to all of the above.

Plus half-assed is just about the best description of IA heard so far.

I think I would prefer carefull, they are trying to inch closer towards the right solution because the flaws with the X-Wing aren't as bad as the A-Wings or TIE Advanceds were.

Exactly. And since when is the X-wing's mobility one of its major problems? From my perception, they have always been straight up jousters, and were never meant to function as arc dodgers. They work well in groups, pounding damage down your throat in a collected effort with other ships, then K-turning to do it again. FFG making the T-70 have boost, a better dial and a shield more doesn't say anything about their feelings on the T-65 other than that the T-70 is supposed to fill a different space in the game than it.

Perhaps the Rebel players really are more whiny than the Imperial players are, because when we get a fix, we whine it's not good enough. Please, I'm begging other rebel players to give it at least a couple months after IA is released until you begin complaining for something more. Yes, there may need to be more, but in my opinion, that is due more to the issue jousters overall are having, not the T-65 specifically.

Maybe the reason Rebel players are pissed is that they have been playing with the current selection of droids for a while now and even with experience, havent found a good use for most of the generics on the T-65. There was never a strong reason to take a generic droid on the generic (or even some unique) T-65s, before now. The unique droids are better but synergise pretty specifically with certain named pilots.

Being forced to pay for a mostly crappy upgrade, just to get something the X Wing should have had from square 1 is a good reason to be pissed. If the TIE Adv fix had been bad, you wouldnt have heard the end of the complaints.