I dont want to mess with the XP system until we've actually done some testing on the AI. I know we've aready built in a "Hyper out if your health goes too low" override into the AI, everything beyond that should be mission specific.

Thing is, with rebels as enemy, you really make much fewer XP with the old system.

Thing is, with rebels as enemy, you really make much fewer XP with the old system.

...ok?

That just means growth is slower. And given the kind of abilities imperials have access to, I think that's a good thing.

Mission design is going to be key, and we've barely sarted on it.

Yeah sure, just pointing out that taking the system over no changes will make the experience different which we have to factor in. But speaking of getting started, perhaps we should finally make some decisions.

Are there not enough imperial fighters from the correct time period that you wouldn't need to fly the First Order ships?

We have:

TIE Fighters

TIE Interceptors

TIE Advanced

TIE Bomber

TIE Defender

TIE Punisher

TIE Phantom

TIE Adv. Prototype

The regular Aturi cluster has:

X-wings, Y-wings, A-wings, B-wings and a HWK-290 as fly able ships.

Seems like the imperial version would have PLENTY of craft to fly.

The problem is, they all are pretty similar.

punisher is a bigger bomber

Fighter, Advanced, Defender are the jousters

Phantoms, Intercepters and TAP are the arcdodgers

The "Tie Aggressor" Tie SF, on the other hand, fills a similar role to the rebel Ywing and HWK, covering more of the battlefield.

As a jouster, the "Shielded tie" is a middle ground between starting in a no-upgrade ship with 14 points to spend, and starting in darth vaders personal ship. It is also the only source of "Imperial shield regen" with comm relay.

This leaves the Tie Intercepter to be the baseline arcdodger, the Tie bomber to be the baseline ordinance ship, and the Tie shuttle bomber as the support ship. A good range of options of comparable power with limited overlap.

You could add the BTL-A4 Y-wing as Assault Gunboats...

Sounds like an interesting houserule- it shares the jouster role with the shielded tie, but "More health" instead of "Cant touch this". I'm trying to avoid directly lifting rebel craft, though... there's plenty of imperial ships, we just have to manage their diversity.

"In response to the growing unrest in the Aturi Cluster, the Quasar-Fire Cruiser Carrier PURSUANT, home of the Elite Hunter Squad is tasked with wiping out the hidden rebel and pirate strongholds in this region of space.

These are the stories of the HUNTERS OF THE ATURI CLUSTER

Lets see if I can channel the Tie Fighter videogame Fleet Officer here for mission intros...

Mission 0: FINAL EXAM

INTRO: You have been selected to join one of the Empire's elite expirmental squadrons. Before cleansing the Rebel Scum from this sector, we advise you to familiarize yourself with your chosen craft. The Commander has assembled a training simulation to hone your skills. Dont give us cause to rethink your selection.

VICTORY: Very good. The Commander periodically upgrades the simulation-be sure to return here to keep your fighting edge between missions. For the glory of the Empire!

-PLAY HUNTERS OF THE ATURU CLUSTER OR REPLAY "FINAL EXAM"

FAILURE: Your failure disgraces us all. Were it up to me you would we sent back to the academy, but the Commander has chosen leinency. Your flight status has been revoked until you can pass a simple simulation. I suggest you do better this time.

-REPLAY "FINAL EXAM"

My latest round of brainstorming goes something like this:

Starting ships are:

PS2 Tie Intercepter with 8 points and 2 mod slots

PS2 Tie Bomber/Shuttle with 10 points

PS2 "Shielded Tie Fighter" (Tie FO) with 11 points

PS2 "Tie Aggressor" (Tie SF) with x points

Advanced Craft: PS4 does NOT unlock additional ship choices. Instead, completing mission arcs unlocks them:

-Inspection Tour/fleet officer visit unlocks the Lambada

-Save the Phantom facility to unlock Tie Phantom that's missing the starting mod slot.

-Convoy mission arc escorts a gozanti carrying Tie Advanced- complete the arc to unlock the Tie/X1 Advanced

-Inquisition related mission arc unlocks the TAP, as "We sence much potential in you"

-Something related to the Defender training facility to unlock Tie Defender with no title slot

-Attacking a rebel ground base unlocks the Tie Punisher.

That's everything except the Escort Shuttle (firespray) (which can be slotted in to replace the lambada if we take awat the first EPT and Mod slots) and the Decimator, which is just too big and too beefy for this campain.

"Wingpairs: If you select a Tie Fighter, Tie FO, or Tie Adv.Prototype, you gain an equal PS wingman in the same ship with the same upgrades, including pilot skills. You control both ships, and gain experience from both, though you are still limited to 1 XP per turn from damage. If one ship is shot down, do not roll for pilot ejection- your character was in the other ship. Instead, you lose half the XP you earned up to that point. If your second ship is shot down, roll for pilot ejection normally."

"Hyperspace- Most ties do not have hyperdrive. Unless you are flying one of the advanced craft, you may not choose to hyperspace in the maneuver phase. Instead, if a scenerio calls for a Gozanti Transport or Imperial Hanger, any Tie may perform an Emergency Dock, performing a green maneuver and ending your movement in base contact with the transport or hanger. The tie is removed and considered docked with the Gozanti, may deploy on later movement phases, and is only considered killed if the gozanti is destroyed."

Mission 0: Final Exam

INTRO: You have been selected to join one of the Empire's elite expirmental squadrons. Before cleansing the Rebel Scum from this sector, we advise you to familiarize yourself with your chosen craft. The Commander has assembled a training simulation to hone your skills. Dont give us cause to rethink your selection.

All players are flying PS1 Tie/LN Wingpairs and 6 points to spend. Rebels always lose init.

Vs single Xwings and single turreted Ywings, none of which have torpedos or astromechs.

No escape edge

VICTORY: Very good. The Commander periodically upgrades the simulation-be sure to return here to keep your fighting edge between missions. For the glory of the Empire!

-PLAY HUNTERS OF THE ATURU CLUSTER OR REPLAY "FINAL EXAM"

FAILURE: Your failure disgraces us all. Were it up to me you would we sent back to the academy, but the Commander has chosen leinency. Your flight status has been revoked until you can pass a simple simulation. I suggest you do better this time.

-REPLAY "FINAL EXAM"

(rest of these need to be edited to reflect the ship unlock mechanic above)

Arc 1: Convoy Escort

Mission 1: Customs Inspection

A bunch of YTs, Hounds teeth, Rebel Transports and HWK squadrons are moving toward your base. Scan them, a randon one (or group for HWKS) is carrying contraband. Rebel Awings and Xwings hyper in in reaction, as the illegal ship attempts to flee.

Station available for Emergency Dock

Mission 2: Pirate attack

Convoy of NPC ships that dont move, including a Gozanti

Ywings, HWKS, and Headhunters attack with ion turrets. Protect the convoy.

Gozanti available for Emergency Dock

Mission 3: Rebel Ambush

Convoy moves 1/2 foreward each round, must cross asteroid field.

Each asteroid may have rebels hidden- Scan asteroids before transports are on top of them. Undetected rebels spawn on turn X. Ywings and Bwings with torpedos and strike AI

Gozanti available for Emergency dock

Arc 2: New Base

Mission 1: survey Asteroid field

HWKs and Zs, kill them all.

Gozanti for Emergency Dock

Mission 2: Protect the Base

Xwings and Bwings with Torpedos, Strike AI on base

Small starbase available for Emergency dock

Mission 3: Fireships

1-2 Rebel transports are approaching the base, filled with explosives.

Kill them before they reach the base

Xwings and Ywings escorting

Emergency dock with base.

Arc 3: Planetary Assault

Mission 1: Make an Example

Blow up a ground supply depot

Z95s and HWKS defend it

Escape edge available.

Mission 2: Escort the Walkers

Brand new ATAT template with hull and guns

Rebels send Xwings and Awings

Escape edge available

Mission 3: Attack the Rebel base

Rebel base spawns Awings, Xwings

YTs and Rebel Trnsports flee toward board edge

Protect the ATAT, destroy base, bonus points to destroy fleeing ships.

Arc 4: Planetary Blocade

Mission 1: Customs patrol

Hanger+Turrets for emergency dock

Scan incoming freighters for Rebels

Rebel reinforcements arrive, strike AI on base

Mission 2: Starve them out

Protect bombers as they emplace a minefield

Station for emergency dock

Mission 3: Blocade Runner

CR-90 is trying to get through your zone- kill it before it can escape.

Station for emergency dock

Arc 5: Senior Visitor

Mission 1: Hyperspace ambush

Rebels are waiting, shuttle w/ Vader+fleet officer will arrive in d6 turns.

Shuttle must dock with Gozanti (flee AI, use HotAC AI card)

Gozanti for emergency dock

Mission 2: Personal command

Shuttle is on strike AI against the enemy- use shuttle AI card from HotAC

Shuttle must survive

Ground mission, all sides are escape edges.

ATATs and rebel turrets, with Xwings and Awings

Mission 3: Protect the Flagship

Raider and Gozanti, both must survive

Torpedo armed Bwings and Ywings

Gozanti emenrgency dock

Arc 6: Hunt the Rebels.

Mission 1: Capture High Value Target

Shuttle grab mission

Mission 2: Rescue Attempt (Interrogation of Rebel Prisoner is underway when Rebels attempt a rescue)

Defend a facility against enemy attack. If possible include an enemy rescue ship (YT-1300) attempting to interact with your facility (rescuing captive) and escape.

Mission 3: Attack on Rebel Fleet

Gozanti and friendly Raider,

Vs transports and freighters with a heavy rebel escort.

Kill the transports, keep Gozanti and raider alive.

Finished the pilot cards for the Adv, Adv proto, defender, and Phantom. I also went back and did some minor retooling of the TIE/ln and interceptor. I left the TIE/ln with 2 EPT's and 2 mods. As it's such a flimsy ship I feel it needs the boost. Best counter is only 3xp to start I think. I also changed the Interceptors missile to a mod/missile slot. I remember in the old "X-wing vs TIE" campaign the interceptor squad had been modified to have missiles, and I think taking a mod slot is a good balance/trade off for this. Advanced X1 title I built in, but there is no points reduction for the system now, while I feel is fine in the campaign setting.

I would like to make special cards for the Lambda, Deci, and Gozi so work as their support/carrier role in the campaign as opposed to straight player ships, but I can do Lambda and Deci as player ships if someone asks nicely .

Did the AI cards for the A-wing and B-wing, as well as fixing the lack of K-turn on the X-wing card.

Addin the 2 First Order ships is overkill on optons for ships. And doesnt fit the time ine. In the even that the Aggressor or something else is added then fine add those ships in. But otherwise leave those two out.

And as for surivavbility for the Xwings and other Rebel craft, I think r2 astro or r5 astro plus integrated asromech is a good idea base. Some flights/wingpairs should have r2s and the others should have R5s. To make them different, or just put the R5astromech on the Ywing...though the R2 helps it a good bit too.

As for Stealth device standard on awings and xwings, yeah maybe as a Elite pilot upgrade, but I dont thin the xwing needs much more help Agility wise against regular ties. Or even mkae the Stealth device on the ones that you have to face at above ps 4 or 6 something

There's enough competing ideas in this thread, that it might be time to fork this project into different threads, each pursuing a different "flavor" of imperial campain.

Tie swarm based, NPC support ships, playable missile boats... splitting off would mean throwing down hard limiits on what you want for YOUR campain, and working to flesh out the details without going over the same basic disagreemends we've had for the last 20 pages again and again.

Does anyone mind I I take pretty much the stuff at the top of this page and turn it into it's own thread? less arguments about the tie SF, more mission planning and fluff writing?

By all means, go ahead, but I don't see how you write missions when there are no rules. I also don't think it's wise to go into several different directions.

By all means, go ahead, but I don't see how you write missions when there are no rules. I also don't think it's wise to go into several different directions.

That's the thing, we're spendng all our time arguing what approach to take with the rules, when we could be making missions for EACH set of rules.

So I will be putting together a post with the rules I want for "Hunters of the Aturi Cluster", the work I've done on the training mission, SD's AI cards, and so on... and people can test my training mission under my rules while I figure out the rest of the campain.

Meanwhile you can make a "Defenders of the Aturi Cluster" thread with, I dunno, buyable tie swarms, and people can test your rules there.

Rakaydos, have fun with your First Order and multi-TAP fighters (still no idea why you feel the need for multiple advanced ships as one pilot, as if it isnt a good ship on its own) in your campaign.

But I do wish you luck with it, even if I dont see a need to working seperately, since we are all trying to make something that works for people that enjoy the campaign style aspect of Xwing that has come about.

I haven't been following the chatter here closely, but I'd be happy to take a first pass at authoring the missions for arc 6 (I think some of which were my ideas in the first place). I'll put something together that uses the rules Raykadops laid out above as the assumptions for ship power level going into a first mission and go from there.

I haven't been following the chatter here closely, but I'd be happy to take a first pass at authoring the missions for arc 6 (I think some of which were my ideas in the first place). I'll put something together that uses the rules Raykadops laid out above as the assumptions for ship power level going into a first mission and go from there.

Campain is now going to need to be significantly rewoked, as it is now the primary ship-unlocking mechanisim. (to mirror the HotAC missions removing ships from the elite pile)

Does this link work? https://tools.fantasyflightgames.com/xwing/home/6621/

I also dont think splitting up is the best way to go about this. I think each induvidual person has their own personal flavor which they would love to add to a campaign of this size which is only natural. We have some assests already such as AI for a bunch of ships. Why dont we maybe just focus on designing some new assets for now.

This direction we can focus on latter. I know im about to start a new heros campaign with some new players in my area and im waiting till ive had a fresh look till i commit to putting any missions on paper. But once im finished it im going to try fleshing some ideas.

Why dont we have a go at designing some Rebel and scum Pilot cards. Just somthing that is not so essential that we can all put our effort towards. (Sorry if this has already been done and i missed it) that way we have a huge selection to choose from

Edit: yeah rak the link works imma try giving this a go solo in the next few days

I'm fine contributing to either approach.

After reading over Rakaydos' "Hunters..." (which will get confusing when people say HOTAC) campaign suggestions, I think his curbing of the Phantom and Defender by not alowing the titles to the Defenders, and the changes to Advanced Cloak are wrong. Especially in the case of the Defender.

I say we move forward on this thread with Defenders of the Aturi Cluster (or any other name we decide on- honestly that isnt an issue compared to game mechanics right now).

And yes Twals4, and Babaganoosh, go head and let fly on ideas on here I look forward to the missions you come up wth Babaganoosh. and Twals4 the pilot cards/ai should and can be worked on immediately.

Some suggestions for some of the scanning missions, perhaps use some of the extra tokens, like the squadmate and senator shuttle, rather than clutter up the board with ships that may not be used - basically, when scanning a token, if an enemy is revealed, remove the token and put on the ship.

Now, reinforcements, I would consider using the sensor buoy tokens, placed in areas, rebel reinforcements can be placed within range 1 of the buoy, with a chosen vector being their facing. This can represent the hyperjump capable nature of the rebel craft.

Y-wing recomendations (coloured by my wanting to use TIE/ln fighters and such) I would only consider using ion turret and blaster turret on AI ships, as they do the least damage and give options to evade. I would give Y-wings the R5 astromech, but, a rebel y-wing ace with. Twin Laser Turret could work.

AI should be tweaked to use ordnance on larger craft - dont waste it on player if the rebels are trying to destroy a shuttle. Also applies to target selection. Y-wings should gun for mission target, x-wings fly interference (attacking players)

X-wings, r2 Astromech with integrated astromech, ace upgrade to R7 with stealth device and integrated astromech

Blasted Samophlange I love your ideas for the AI elites only getting TLT, and the generics getting ion and blaster turrets. I suggested a similar thing earlier about the R5, but I could also see some getting R2 too. Maybe we could come up wih a reason some Xwings and Ywings have R2s and others R5s or Targetting Astromechs (mabe even R3 Astro when the Arc gets more previewed.

Maybe a more aggressive version, and a more defensive version. I see the R5 being the defensive one. And R2 and targetting Astro a the offensive ones.

And maybe a slightly different AI other than just the standard Attack Ai from HOTAC - but a different set of movements for it entirely on the chart?

And yeah sensor buoys or the hyperspace tokens from the jumpmaster or whateer other tokens can work for where the Rebels might jump in from hyperspec, as opposed to just coming in from the side points of the map.

After reading over Rakaydos' "Hunters..." campaign suggestions, I think his curbing of the Phantom and Defender by not alowing the titles to the Defenders, and the changes to Advanced Cloak are wrong. Especially in the case of the Defender.

I say we move forward on this thread with Defenders of the Aturi Cluster (or any other name we decide on- honestly that isnt an issue compared to game mechanics right now).

And yes Twals4, and Babaganoosh, go head and let fly on ideas on here I look forward to the missions you come up wth Babaganoosh. and Twals4 the pilot cards/ai should and can be worked on immediately.

My problem with the Defender and phantom is the same reason the Kwing, T70 and Ewing break Heros- They simpy offer more than other advanced craft that have the same opportunity cost. But given a choice between banning them entirely and finding some kind of restriction to make them "fair" (but still interesting), I prefer to pull out the nerfbat.

How many points is a free evade every turn (that you go fast) worth? And what slots should be burned to give an ion double tap?

Eliminating the phantom may be the way to go. Just because a ship is in the game, doesn't mean it should be playable. The othef option, is to use it as a special mission where it is only availiable for that mission.

Now, the defender.. If missions are set up with secondary and tertiary goals, if a mission will unlock the craft, why cant other objectives earn the titles? If they are hard enough, this could be the balancing factor.

While I intend to keep the TIE/ln as being the default ship, I think I'll work up something where while no xp is earned by killing a rebel or pirate, getting the kill lets you unlock newer vessels. This encourages you to try to get the kill. If you become an ace by getting 5 kills, your default becomes the interceptor.

I suggested that surviving hull earns you xp, as well as mission objectives completed, but I think it should be missions flown without being shot down. Every mission flown without being wiped out, earns you an xp bonus. Survive the mission earn an xp. Survive 5 in a row, earn 5xp.

I also intend to have the players earn and potentially unlock multiple ships, that they can choose for a mission, with each being upgraded separately. Yes, it is more paperwork and fiddly, but with tweaking, can keep the feel of the original. The idea that if your tricked out defender is destroyed, you have to earn enough xp to buy another - but, you will always have a default, and possibly tricked out TIE/ln to fly for free.

Pilot abilities such as uniqe skills or elite talents are set, but upgrades, modifications and such must be purchased for each craft you can fly.

I feel the added upkeep and separating pilot from craft allows missions where a pilot has to fly a shuttle rather than their fancy tricked out TIE Interceptor.

This is a way to keep the disposable feel of being a TIE pilot, with having to eliminate the ejection rules. The punishment for being shot down is losing the xp on your ship. Of course, testing will show whether the No shields, all Guts rule (survivor xp bonus) and mission rewards is enough to pay for upgrades.

So.,, has amyone dome a scyk AI?

I'd be fine with eliminating the Phantom all together. It was much more rare than the Defender and its facility for production was destroyed, after producing few fighters.

The Defender I think adds something and can be controlled, by making the X7 one ship that you have to buy, before buying the TIE/D. Say X7 at ps or 5, and the TIE/D after plying two missions in the X7.

Kind of a like a special requirment.

Maybe make the titles in both cases take up the first Modificiation slot. ..which just means making the sheets for the X7 and the Tie/d reflect that.

Also Rakaydos, I know we've had some differences on the forums before (I'd like to think they are done with and in the past), but lets work together as a group on this, and make the supplements something everyone can enjoy.

Also what about making things cost more in EXP but keeping exp for kills of ships. By possibly making the cost to buy the upgrad to a new ship cost more than the 5 or so exp like it does in HOTAC, but more along the lines of 10 (or less, or even more).

I also think we could make the cost to increase PS to 3times the new cost rather than just 2times the cost. This would slow the rise of pilots greatly, and even allow for more missions to be played.

I'd be fine with eliminating the Phantom all together. It was much more rare than the Defender and its facility for production was destroyed, after producing few fighters.

The Defender I think adds something and can be controlled, by making the X7 one ship that you have to buy, before buying the TIE/D. Say X7 at ps or 5, and the TIE/D after plying two missions in the X7.

Kind of a like a special requirment.

Maybe make the titles in both cases take up the first Modificiation slot. ..which just means making the sheets for the X7 and the Tie/d reflect that.

Also Rakaydos, I know we've had some differences on the forums before (I'd like to think they are done with and in the past), but lets work together as a group on this, and make the supplements something everyone can enjoy.

How about a special Hunters modification to unlock the title slot, "True Defender" or something. Make the mod cost 5 points, so it's 5 points for the "Base" defender, 8 for the x7 and 10 for the Tie/D.

The problem with ignoring the phantom is that Heros already put the phantom factory right here. If it was just Stygium Cloak, it would have a very unique playstyle I would love to include. I feel that banning ACD would do much to balance the ship.

The problem with one campaign is that there' so many different ways to go about doing this. My "Hunters" is a minimalist version, keeping the Heros rules intact as much as possible. (which is why I didnt include my own double tie, double v1 concepts) This is very difficult to reconcile with the imperial "faceless cog" approach, so I'm leavig the "everone plays tie LNs" campaign for the rest of you while I work on it. I'm not abandoning you guys (I still think the double LN wingman approach is best) but I'm trying to move past the logjam we got ourselves into.

Also what about making things cost more in EXP but keeping exp for kills of ships. By possibly making the cost to buy the upgrad to a new ship cost more than the 5 or so exp like it does in HOTAC, but more along the lines of 10 (or less, or even more).

I also think we could make the cost to increase PS to 3times the new cost rather than just 2times the cost. This would slow the rise of pilots greatly, and even allow for more missions to be played.

I dont feel it's nessisary, because rebels have an annoying tendancy not to stick around and die. if you can finish one off, sure, you get 3 XP (hit, kill, non- tie fighter Headhunter kill), but if it has 1 HP left and hypers out, you dont get any. (other than the XP from hits to get it that low)

How about restricting the Phantom to be only bought at PS7 or 8 then?

Or even say the Phantom is unlocked at , the stygium cloak is allowed then. But Advanced Cloak isnt allowed to PS8 or 9...and cant mix with stygium, that it replaces it.

And yeah, if the Rebels run a lot, then the exp from getting the kill would be good. Though still increasing themultiplier is something that could be done for a hard mode /slow level up variant. I'd even like that added to HOTAC, but that is something that indiviidual player groups could decide on. Either way, I would like to include that into the book/pdf as a variant that people could choose optionally.

How about a special Hunters modification to unlock the title slot, "True Defender" or something. Make the mod cost 5 points, so it's 5 points for the "Base" defender, 8 for the x7 and 10 for the Tie/D.

I think betwen your modification to unlock the slot, and unlockign the X7 first, and then the TIE/D we have something solid. Afterall the TIE/D did come after the X7 if we think about it logically. I dont see any real need for the base non-title Defender Especially since the X7 doestake the missile and the cannon away. And then the Tie/D loses it the evade free action.

The base non title defender exists in my version, because it isnt OP compared to a well built Royal Guard. Because point values arnt a thing in HotAC, the base Defender could be considered about 25 points, the same as a PTL/AT/TC intercepter (if an alpha could take Royal Guard tie, which the campain assumes)

+3 points, a mod slot, and both cannon and missile slots for x7, or +5 points and a mod slot for Tie D