I am hoping someone can clarify this for me before the weekend. My group and I are well into our 4th campaign, and we are all mostly well-versed in descent 2nd edition. We could not reach a consensus regarding Biv's hero ability 'Close and personal' and his 4xp class card 'Final stand'. I am playing Biv, and I have been consistently using his close and personal, straining twice for movement, then using my second action to deplete 'final stand', which allows me to move my speed, recover my endurance value, and perform close and personal without paying its action or strain cost. Our IP decided he didnt like having his best units in a room start off dead, or bleeding, stunned, and weakened, so he has convinced my fellow rebels that I've been playing this illegally b/c I cant perform the same special action (close and personal) twice on the same turn. I argued that because it states 'without paying it action or strain costs' it is not the same action, Similar to gideon's Masterstroke. When I brought that up, the IP said masterstroke is allowed because it states specifically that u can perform a second command. To this I replied that 'Final stand' did not state the same because close and personal isnt a triggering condition for it, like command is for gideon's masterstroke. If I was playing it wrong, would that mean that I could never deplete Final stand in any round that I already activated 'Close and personal'?? Help is greatly appreciated, plus the IP was foolish enough to place a small wager on the outcome
Campaign rules clarification needed - Biv Boderick
You cannot use "Close and Personal" twice in an activation per this rule:
Pg 2 RRG
"A figure can perform each special action ability only once per activation."
Gideon is able to "Command" twice with "Masterstroke" because "Masterstroke" states that he can gain an additional "Command", using the golden rule to bypass the once per activation rule. "Final Stand" does not grant you the additional "Close an Personal" - it just gives you one free "Close and Personal".
He is actually only useing Close and personal once. The second action is Final Stand, which lets hem perform it, there is no condition to it, he has to perform it I think.
As we all know, cards trumps rules. There is a command card which lets you use the same special action again, this is no different.
The card is also deplete so it is once per mission.
that was my point exactly landoro. I use close and personal first action, then I use final stand for my second action. It is worded exactly like masterstroke, the key term being 'use without paying its action or fatigue cost', which basically removes the strain cost and the fancy little action symbol from the second close and personal. gideon doesnt perform command twice. He performs command, then triggers masterstroke. So why could I not close and personal, then final stand?
Well, my opinion on this is you can't normally do special actions more than once is because they tap to activate. If it doesn't have the tap symbol, its not an action anymore, its a non action ability, like force throw. At the bottom of the section where it says that it goes on to say there's lots of ways to get attacks and movement without them being actions. Your activating Close and personal once, and then Final Stand once (and that gives you attacks "in the manner of class and personal")
As much as it pains the empire, if it were my game, I would allow it.
I can see this both ways, but my gut says this would be legal. Final Stand states you do not have to pay the action or strain costs of Close and Personal. I would think that this would mean that since Close and Personal granted by Final Stand doesn't have a cost, then how can it be counted as a special action?
Final Stand gets depleted after use, so it's not like you get to do this every activation. Just once per mission.
Might be a good idea to posit a rules query though.
Where would I do that Fizz?
Where would I do that Fizz?
here:
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/
Keep us updated on Pauls reply
Link in my signature.
I can see this both ways, but my gut says this would be legal. Final Stand states you do not have to pay the action or strain costs of Close and Personal. I would think that this would mean that since Close and Personal granted by Final Stand doesn't have a cost, then how can it be counted as a special action?
Final Stand gets depleted after use, so it's not like you get to do this every activation. Just once per mission.
Might be a good idea to posit a rules query though.
I totally agree that we need a ruling on this. I can see both ways as well. My only counter argument is that a special ability is still defined as a special ability whether it happens to be free of costs in an instance or not. And as for Masterstroke and the command card utilizing the golden rule (card trumps rulebook) it is explicitly stated that the rule is to be broken. Final Stand does not.
I look forward to a ruling.
Here is the official ruling from FFG:
Rules Question:
Hey FFG, I need a definitive response on a rules clarification regarding Biv Bodhrik in our campaign game. So here is the situation. I use close and personal first action,strain for 2 movement, then I use final stand for my second action. My IP contends that I cannot perform a second 'close and personal' during my 'final stand' action because I cannot perform 'close and personal' twice. I contend that I'm not performing 'close and personal' twice, I'm performing 'close and personal', then I'm depleting 'final stand'. Which of these is correct?
