Hello,

the card Shrine to Nurgle says that every unit that receives combat damage is corrupted.

So what damage is combat damage.

is this only damage dealt from attackers or defenders, or also damage from tactics like nurgle's pestilence??

and can units that are not in combat receive combat damage when damage is dealt to them during the battlefield phase??

for example: i attack my opponents quest zone and he decides that none of his units defend. i play nurgle's pestilence and i got shrine to nurgle in play.

is the damage all his unit receive a) combat damage because i dealt it in combat so all of his units in all zones of his board are corrupted

b) combat damge and just the units in the quest zone are corrupted because thats the zone where the battle happens

c) no combat damage because none of my opponents units were in battle and therefore cannot be dealt combat damage

Thanks for the answers

Minzi101 said:

Hi!

Even if we're having some "arguments" about it, I can "swear" that combat damage is "damage done by Units during battlefield", not "damage done during combat".

Anyway, let's see your example.

"Shrine To Nurgles" is referred to "damage during combat" not "combat damage".

So, let's see what happens.

1- Declare attackers

2- No defenders are declared

3- You play Nurgle's Pestilence. Everyone is damaged.

4- Shrine's FORCED kicks in. Every damaged unit is corrupted (we're during combat).

So, the answer is: each Unit controlled by the oppo is damaged, then corrupted, regardless of your choice to declare an attack to a specific zone.

Hmm.... i love to hear that but isnt this a little bit broken???

I mean for me as a chaos player that sounds really great but imho that is way too strong. we need an FAQ on this one.

But on the other hand trolls vomit is also pretty bad + pillage. And the Chaos doesnt have any own supportcard destruction. maybe evens it out a little but still that a major combo than can turn games.

If there are no defenders... did combat take place?

Yes, it did...Becaus if it didn't, the best way to stop an attack would be "don't declare defenders" ;-)

About the power of this "combination"...I guess it's powerful, yes, but it is the Caos theme. ;-) I'm sure we can find power at the same level in other little combos while going deep in a race strategy anaylisis. That' s the point of any race: be strong in the thing they prefer.

DB_Cooper said:

for god sake,this is wrong.. the shrine will not activate with the pestilence..combat is always between either unit-unit or unit -capital, whereas combat damage will be the damage that will occur from that state..and damage from a tactic is always that,simple damage.. also there is no "combat phase or step" which means that the only occurance of combat in game will be the moment where two sides colide,either unit-unit or capital-unit, making the damage from pestilence not a direct result from combat, that making no activation from the shrine..

lets be honest,that would be totally broken..

we need a CR really fast, because we are getting bored from so many rules issues..

I agree with your points, man and it makes sense in a logical prespective.

But here we have a wording that reads: "during combat". So:

You may be right. BUT IF it is so, this card is BAD "WORDED" because the correct wording for such an effect would have been something like "after a unit takes combat damage"...But here we have a word COMBAT and the "during combat" stipulation...

[...] Attacking an opponent requires engaging in combat ... PAG 12

[... ] that survived the combat ... PAG 16

We have COMBAT "when there are attackers" . In this interpretation (that, if FFG confirms the wording, would be as I'd rule it), I would be right, but the card would be broken, as YOU SAID and in a player point of view I agree, in some ways.

The second example (pag 16) refers to SCOUT keyword. Again, the use of the word COMBAT is applied to the above situation.

In the end:

- If I'm right, it's very strong.

- If I'm wrong, it's still strong, but not that strong and FFG designers worded it badly.

Hi,

I don't think that his combo is broken, maybe in pair with the Judgement of Verena + Will of the Electors (+ Forced March). Also, it's damages your units as well and chaos have got many 1 HP units.

Based on rules and card wording it should work.

Combat damage is damage done from adding up the power icons on units (including any modifiers from support or tactic cards) that is then assigned and successfully applied from units participating in combat.

Damage during combat is any dame that is assigned and successfuly applied during the 5 steps designated as combat during the battlefield phase on page 12 of the rule book, irrespective of its source.

FFG is aware of what this means when it comes to Shrine to Nurgle. If any errata comes down expect it to be to the Shrine changing it's wording, not to the concept of damage during combat to mean damage from combat.

This combo isn't as great as it sounds. Nurgle's Pestilence kills a lot of chaos's one hit units. So what if all your opponents units are corrupted? Most of your units just died.

To add to this debate, I bring the following scenario we had tonight:

I had Shrine of Nurgle in play for the Kingdom. I had the Nurgle Sorceress in play in the Quest. And was going to play the Chaos Hero (can't think of his name atm) that allows you to gain +1P for each opponent unit that is corrupted.

Now, the sorceress gives me the ability to deal 1 damage to any unit, 2 if it's corrupted for 3 resources. So the question became when did I do the damage with the sorceress because - 1) I want to maximize the Shrines ability and combo that with 2) Hero ability to gain a P for each corrupted unit.

So we had to determine if the sorceress could do "combat" damage or not. Any thoughts?

Nurgles Sorceror does not need to do combat damage. Shrine to Nurgle states it corrupts a unit damaged during combat, not corrupts a unit damaged from combat (and yes those are two different things and the card was worded this way on purpose). All you have to do is wait until a section of a capitol is the target of attack and you can trigger Nurgle's Sorceror before attackers are declared to start corrupting units. If you wait until attacking units are declared it is too late for them to be prevented from participating.

dormouse said:

And for the attacking side, remember, there is an Action window after each step in in the Battlefield phase, so you can declare your attackers (#2), then zaps people with the Sorcerer (OT: you used to writing Sorceror or Sorcerer, I went hmmm when I saw Nurgle Sorcerer was with 2 'e'), Shrine kicks in, making them unavailable for defense.

Ok everyone is skipping the obvious…. read the rules….

Pg 12 – 4. Battlefield phase, 3 ^rd para.

Attacking an opponent requires engaging in COMBAT , which is broken up into 5 steps:

1. Declare Target of Attack

2. Declare Attackers

3. Declare Defenders

4. Assign Damage

5. Apply Damage

Pg 17 – Non Combat Damage

Outside of combat , some card effects also deal damage to units or to a player’s capital. When these effects resolve, this damage is first assigned and then applied to the target in a manner similar to the way damage is handled in combat. The one exception to this rule is the Counterstrike keyword (see Counterstrike, page 16). Counterstrike damage is always applied as soon as it is assigned.

(Read pg 12 again for assigning damage)

Now that we understand the rules, “combat damage” is dealt by defenders and attackers ONLY, when engaged during the battlefield phase. Only an attacker and/or a defender may do “combat damage”. Any effect that is an Action or Forced that is triggered by combat damage will only activate when an attacker “assigns, step 4” and successfully “applies, step 5” damage to a defender and vice versa for defender to attacker. An Action that causes damage or indirect damage, REGARDLESS OF PHASE is considered NON-COMBAT damage, unless written as such on the card. Non combat damage is assigned-step 4 and applied-step 5 in the same manner as combat damage, giving keywords like toughness a chance to activate.

An example to clarify, it was proposed in a post above:

With a Shrine to Nurgle and a Nurgle Sorcerer in play… the Chaos player pays three resources to activate the Sorcerers Action , which causes 1 damage a target unit for 3 resources. He targets one of the Dwarf player’s battlefield units during the battlefield phase, trying to activate the Forced effect of the Shrine of Nurgle, which corrupts units who receive combat damage. This will not work as the damage caused by the Sorcerer’s Action is non combat damage, thereby skipping the Shrines Forced effect.

To get to the OP question:

Nurgle’s Pestilence causes NON COMBAT damage, see above, so the Shrine has no effect.

There seems to be a lot of confusion between battlefield phase and combat, they are not the same. Combat happens in the battlefield phase, but not everything that happens in the battlefield phase is combat, again read pg 12. The two rules listed above should be more than enough to make a ruling for all questions brought forth in this thread.

Thanks

Jay

P.S. Chaos still stomped my butt twice last night without bending the rules

need to highlight the white box above to see the text, not sure how that happened... NM I fixed it

jaycsin said:

Of course, misreading the card in question is what causes a lot of issues I've noticed. Shrine of Nurgle says NOTHING about combat damage, it reads: "...unit is damaged during combat, corrupt that unit."

Jaycsin, Nate has already confirmed that my example above is the correct way of playing the cards, the combo does work. As Dam pointed out Shrine to Nurgle does not require one to do combat damage, only to be damaged during combat, the 5 steps you pointed out above.

In case there is more confusion, non-combat damage does not wait until Step 5 of Combat where assigned combat damage is applied, it is an action which must be resolved within the action window it was played in. Once that action is resolved, along with any response actions and any additional actions until both players have passed consecutively, then and only then do you continue with the whatever steps are left of Combat.

So if I play the hero in my battlefield and combo that with the Sorcerer's ability and Shrines ability - I could grant him P for each unit I corrupt and then attack with said gained power? Wicked.

Welcome to Chaos, may Nurgle bless you.

dormouse said:

I'm very happy to see we were right about this annoying issue. Lots of people, even in my area, tried to translate the "during combat" with "combat damage" and it was becoming a boring discussion , 'cause as lots of players repeatedly said, it'd had been a wording mistake.

And let me say that I've ALWAYS ruled StN in this way and it's not more/less strong than any other interaction you may find, IMHO.

DB_Cooper said:

But you're an Empire-lovin' pansy . More power to Chaos shouldn't be on your list .

Dam said:

Ahahaha, good point, man. Good point.

Let's say that...umh...Chaos is my second race!

The original poster asked if he played a pestilence card during the battlefield phase would that corrupt all units due to a Shrine of Nurgle being in play, which the answer would be no.

jaycsin said:

Actually, the answer is YES.

"Damaged during Combat" is excactly what happens in the example.

dormouse said:

dormouse said:

Which combo are you referring too? If you are referring to doing non combat damage during the battlefield phase to a attacker or defender unit, that is just damage they take. They would not become corrupted unitl they took damage from their opponent's unit in combat. You are reading to far in what the cards are saying. Follow the RULES till the FAQ comes out.

The first line of the non combat damage RULE says, "outside of combat, some cards effects also deal damage to units or to a player's capital". Ok lets look at that sentence, "outside of combat", what are they referring to? They are talking about the big cluster in the middle of the table between one battlefield and another defender's zone. So if a unit does damage outside the battle between the

Dam's point, "After an a opponent's unit takes damage during combat, corrupt that unit"., i.e. counterstrike damage, applied damage from power icon totaling. From a purely fluff perspective, when a unit comes into contact with a chaos unit that has been blessed on the Shrine of Nurgle, it is more reasonable they would end up corrupted, as the taint has rubbed off on them. Not because a sorcerer took a potshot that them from afar.

It is not combat unless you are face to face.

Has Nate posted it on the forum his RULING?