Probably applying Ozzel to both the token and the dial?

Probably applying Ozzel to both the token and the dial?

Thats the thing tho, its an either/or not an and. so you arent using the token to increase speed by zero and yaw by 1, because conversely that would imply you are able to increase 1 and 1 with token, which you can't.

lol. Looks like we haven't reached the end of this particular debate.

--

Also, I've needed nav teams now twice. I'm not good with Engine Techs. My ackbars turn far faster and I want to see nav teams to get more precision on the turn. Whereas, I've not gotten good use out of Engine Techs. And theyre more expensive.

When manoeuvring, by default you can't change speed. You only get to change speed by using a Nav dial, or a Nav token. Nav Team gives an either/or option in place of it's original nav token ability. So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

With Ozzel and Nav Team, with dial and token, Ozzel only triggers once due to "when" and the fact the dial and token combine into a single command. So you could go +/-3 speed with +1 Yaw, or +/-2 speed with +2 Yaw. That's some pretty sexy manoeuvring TBH.

So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

Yeah, that reasoning seems to make sense, too.

It could definitely go either way, although I do still lean towards thinking it would work.

When manoeuvring, by default you can't change speed. You only get to change speed by using a Nav dial, or a Nav token. Nav Team gives an either/or option in place of it's original nav token ability. So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

With Ozzel and Nav Team, with dial and token, Ozzel only triggers once due to "when" and the fact the dial and token combine into a single command. So you could go +/-3 speed with +1 Yaw, or +/-2 speed with +2 Yaw. That's some pretty sexy manoeuvring TBH.

I would have to lean towards this interpretation.

When manoeuvring, by default you can't change speed. You only get to change speed by using a Nav dial, or a Nav token. Nav Team gives an either/or option in place of it's original nav token ability. So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

With Ozzel and Nav Team, with dial and token, Ozzel only triggers once due to "when" and the fact the dial and token combine into a single command. So you could go +/-3 speed with +1 Yaw, or +/-2 speed with +2 Yaw. That's some pretty sexy manoeuvring TBH.

I would have to lean towards this interpretation.

Second that.

When manoeuvring, by default you can't change speed. You only get to change speed by using a Nav dial, or a Nav token. Nav Team gives an either/or option in place of it's original nav token ability. So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

With Ozzel and Nav Team, with dial and token, Ozzel only triggers once due to "when" and the fact the dial and token combine into a single command. So you could go +/-3 speed with +1 Yaw, or +/-2 speed with +2 Yaw. That's some pretty sexy manoeuvring TBH.

I would have to lean towards this interpretation.

Second that.

Third that. And Max basically articulated what I was trying to say. I'm actually interested in how this could be interpreted differently. I like to see both sides of the argument but in this case I can't wrap my head around the other interpretation, as it seems like less of an interpretation and more a misunderstanding.

When manoeuvring, by default you can't change speed. You only get to change speed by using a Nav dial, or a Nav token. Nav Team gives an either/or option in place of it's original nav token ability. So if you've got a nav token and are picking the extra Yaw as the option then you don't get the ability to change speed. It's not change speed of 0, rather you cannot change speed.

Thus the "additional" wording of Ozzel comes into play. Additional means you need to have the ability to change speed in the first place, IMO. With Nav Team and picking the extra yaw, you have no ability to change speed.

With Ozzel and Nav Team, with dial and token, Ozzel only triggers once due to "when" and the fact the dial and token combine into a single command. So you could go +/-3 speed with +1 Yaw, or +/-2 speed with +2 Yaw. That's some pretty sexy manoeuvring TBH.

I would have to lean towards this interpretation.

Second that.

Third that. And Max basically articulated what I was trying to say. I'm actually interested in how this could be interpreted differently. I like to see both sides of the argument but in this case I can't wrap my head around the other interpretation, as it seems like less of an interpretation and more a misunderstanding.

Fourth.

And also second to "Max basically articulated what I was trying to say"

Third that. And Max basically articulated what I was trying to say. I'm actually interested in how this could be interpreted differently. I like to see both sides of the argument but in this case I can't wrap my head around the other interpretation, as it seems like less of an interpretation and more a misunderstanding.

I can kind of see where the other side would be coming from. in the scenario provided, you choose the extra yaw and choose to change speed by 0, thus ozzel will give you an additional +1.

But as Max pointed out, if you opt for the yaw, you don't change speed, therefor you do not get an additional +1 for speed change.

At least that's the only way I can see for the other side.

Third that. And Max basically articulated what I was trying to say. I'm actually interested in how this could be interpreted differently. I like to see both sides of the argument but in this case I can't wrap my head around the other interpretation, as it seems like less of an interpretation and more a misunderstanding.

I can kind of see where the other side would be coming from. in the scenario provided, you choose the extra yaw and choose to change speed by 0, thus ozzel will give you an additional +1.

But as Max pointed out, if you opt for the yaw, you don't change speed, therefor you do not get an additional +1 for speed change.

At least that's the only way I can see for the other side.

Third that. And Max basically articulated what I was trying to say. I'm actually interested in how this could be interpreted differently. I like to see both sides of the argument but in this case I can't wrap my head around the other interpretation, as it seems like less of an interpretation and more a misunderstanding.

I can kind of see where the other side would be coming from. in the scenario provided, you choose the extra yaw and choose to change speed by 0, thus ozzel will give you an additional +1.

But as Max pointed out, if you opt for the yaw, you don't change speed, therefor you do not get an additional +1 for speed change.

At least that's the only way I can see for the other side.

yeah, I could see that if it weren't for the hard "OR" in the card. A hard OR is NOT a soft AND, simple Boolean logic. The card would literally have to spell out "...can choose to use token to change speed by zero and yaw by 1 instead of the normal effect" in which case all bets are off and Ozzel has a natural synergy in that upgrade.

ARRRGGH.

So, guys walk me through, what did you decide?

I think I'm reading no. If you choose to get the extra yaw from the nav token, you can't use the wait. ASLDJFASLDKMF.

help

Token only:

Nav team restricts movement change off of the nav token: thus if I pick yaw, no "additional" speed.

Dial+token (picking yaw): Change speed by 2 (dial + Ozzel), then increase yaw by 2.

No definitive consensus. Sounds like slight favor towards no, though.

If you don't have a tournament impending, get your group to vote on it. If you do have a tournament mention it to the TO.

And probably send an email to FFG for safety sake.

Lyraeus, Nav Teams gives you the option to either do what a Nav Token normally does or instead get a different effect. Either you choose the 1 +/- in speed or you opt for that to be replaced with an extra yaw. If a player is actively utilizing the Nav Team they are replacing the normal effect with another, otherwise if they aren't doing so they aren't utilizing Nav Teams and they wouldn't figure into the conversation.

And again as it relates to the subject, it (Nav Teams) does not bar you from altering your speed if utilized, you'd just have to get that +/- from another source rather then the Nav Token you are now utilizing with the replacement effect. Such as from say Ozzel, or a simultaneously spent Nav Dial. Or both.

The way I view it is Ozzel is not written. as conditional on the ability to change ones speed, simply on beginning the Nav Command "transaction". Whatever you end up getting out of exchanging Nav Dials/Tokens/other effects is inconsequential to gaining the +/- Speed from Ozzel. I believe the "additional" portion of Ozzel should be read as in addition to the effects generated by the resolved Nav Command gain +/- 1 Speed.

That's kind of where I was falling too.

Though good cases have been made against that, too.

I just think having him contingent on you changing you speed would require specific wording to denote that, and "additional" doesn't cut it in my view as it can be read as I suggested.

I'm not Devestator or Admonition level sure on it. At best I'd take a 5 dollar bet. I am 5 dollar bet sure.

I'm about $5 bet in the other direction, just because of the wording on Nav Team.

It does kind of seem like, one way or the other, Ozzel wasn't written with Nav Team in mind, though... :/

It does kind of seem like, one way or the other, Ozzel wasn't written with Nav Team in mind, though... :/

This, more than anything else.

I'm about $5 bet in the other direction, just because of the wording on Nav Team.

It does kind of seem like, one way or the other, Ozzel wasn't written with Nav Team in mind, though... :/

The Empire didn't have Ozzel in mind when they designed her, Chewie.

I do agree that this interaction was probably missed.

So ah... somebody want to throw an email to FFG?

Yeah, someone? hah I don't know who to send to.

Alright, I'll send it in.

Yeah, someone? hah I don't know who to send to.

To submit a rules question, go to the top of the page, click the following links

"More..."

"Contact us"

"Customer service"

"Rules questions"

You can probably figure the rest out from there.

Not as easy to get to as it used to be.

I don't know, I think "additional" is pretty clear.

From Dictionary definition:

"added, extra, or supplementary to what is already present or available"

in other words, if you understand English and trust the dictionary, it is unambiguously saying you need something THERE in the first place to add anything to it. Seems like plain English to me.