I love the guy who did that "What if episode X was good". I hear his Episode 3 version is due out any day now.

I'd love to see them completely change the prequels, but at the same time I'd also understand if they made very subtle changes. Like ... suppose they leave Midicloriens IN the story, but instead refer to them as microscopic creatures that are simply ATTRACTED to force-sensitive individuals, thus using them as a measuring tool, but leaving the magic in place.

It's out now. I just watched all 3 of them (for the first time) back to back. Quality stuff. I'd watch the remakes.

I've been thinking about Vader's fall to the Dark Side a lot recently and I'm of the opinion that (for the sake of R5D8):

a darker decent for Anakin would ruin the story. We all thought Vader was so bad and he didn't get to show it enough. We all thought he was truly the Dark Lord of the Sith. "There is still good in him," says Luke, but we're all, "Yeah, yeah, everybody can turn good." But that wasn't how Lucas meant it at all. He never really believed in the Darkness; he was just afraid he would lose everything. Then he got caught up in this life where there was no use living and no use dying, so he just kept doing the Emperor's bidding since he was the closest thing to a friend that Anakin had left alive. He was never as evil as we supposed. He just didn't have anything to fight for. Once Luke entered his life, things changed. He did begin to think about betraying the Emperor. He did think about joining Luke. If his fall had been because he embraced the Dark Side and loved all the hateful thing he did, he wouldn't be able to be redeemed (according to Yoda's teachings). If we want to see a Sith Lord fall to darkness and embrace the hatred, we need to see a new Sith origin story. Vader isn't the Sith Lord you're looking for.

So I agree with R5D8 that this aspect of Vader's story would need to go unchanged.

So, the slaughter of children and elderly wasn't dark enough for you? To me. his heel turn was far too abrupt. Going from defending a friend/father figure to wholesale slaughter of colleagues and children was a bridge too far.

I've been thinking about Vader's fall to the Dark Side a lot recently and I'm of the opinion that (for the sake of R5D8):

a darker decent for Anakin would ruin the story. We all thought Vader was so bad and he didn't get to show it enough. We all thought he was truly the Dark Lord of the Sith. "There is still good in him," says Luke, but we're all, "Yeah, yeah, everybody can turn good." But that wasn't how Lucas meant it at all. He never really believed in the Darkness; he was just afraid he would lose everything. Then he got caught up in this life where there was no use living and no use dying, so he just kept doing the Emperor's bidding since he was the closest thing to a friend that Anakin had left alive. He was never as evil as we supposed. He just didn't have anything to fight for. Once Luke entered his life, things changed. He did begin to think about betraying the Emperor. He did think about joining Luke. If his fall had been because he embraced the Dark Side and loved all the hateful thing he did, he wouldn't be able to be redeemed (according to Yoda's teachings). If we want to see a Sith Lord fall to darkness and embrace the hatred, we need to see a new Sith origin story. Vader isn't the Sith Lord you're looking for.

So I agree with R5D8 that this aspect of Vader's story would need to go unchanged.

So, the slaughter of children and elderly wasn't dark enough for you? To me. his heel turn was far too abrupt. Going from defending a friend/father figure to wholesale slaughter of colleagues and children was a bridge too far.

But he did that already. He killed all the Sand People and he admitted, "Not just the men, but the women and the children. I hate them!" That bothered him deeply. It affected him. After having done it once, it was easier to do it to fellow Jedi. And he was sorry for what he had done. You can tell because he is crying on Mustafar after all of the killing is done. He's just trying to keep his head above water, pleasing his new emperor. I don't think he really agrees with what he's doing. But he lies to himself and tries to justify his actions to Obi-Wan. He fools himself into thinking he believes in this new empire, but he really doesn't.

Also, was his heel-turn really that abrupt? We got so many messages that he was disgruntled with the order, with the masters, and with his training. The seeds of doubt were already sown in him. Sometimes it's hard to understand just how upset someone is when you're only looking on the outside. And regardless of how much he disliked the Jedi Order, he couldn't very well say "no" to Palpatine at that point or he'd risk getting fried or he'd have to kill Palpatine. Either of those options would result in the death of Padme and that's the one thing he ever really cared about. So his hands were tied when Palpatine told him to go wipe out the others. He was too afraid to resist, so he followed Palpatines commands and the only way to cope with the horrible things he did was to convince himself that he was doing it for the right reasons.

Aside:

Seriously, he slaughters a whole village of desert nomads and all his girlfriend has to say is, "To be angry is human." She's a humanitarian that serves lots of non-humans and that's all she can say to this atrocity? If so, love has truly blinded her to the nature of the man she will marry. She could have said something. She could have told Obi-Wan, at least. But she didn't, and I think her silence allowed Anakin to keep making bad choices. He always chose the violent way to solve problems rather than the peaceful way.

I will say, that The Clone Wars does help with the feeling of abruptness of Anakin's turn.

I really wish the guy from "What if the prequels were good" could help write the remakes. His ideas sound great. I love his storyboarding and concept art too!

I think it would probably be better if the people who did the Clone Wars cartoon just redid the whole Ep I-III in animation format. Keep most things the same, but change the actors and maybe the script a little.

As for Ep I-III, I've fallen in love with the "Fall of the Jedi" fan edit. I won't watch those movies again unless it's that fan edit.

I've been thinking about Vader's fall to the Dark Side a lot recently and I'm of the opinion that (for the sake of R5D8):

a darker decent for Anakin would ruin the story. We all thought Vader was so bad and he didn't get to show it enough. We all thought he was truly the Dark Lord of the Sith. "There is still good in him," says Luke, but we're all, "Yeah, yeah, everybody can turn good." But that wasn't how Lucas meant it at all. He never really believed in the Darkness; he was just afraid he would lose everything. Then he got caught up in this life where there was no use living and no use dying, so he just kept doing the Emperor's bidding since he was the closest thing to a friend that Anakin had left alive. He was never as evil as we supposed. He just didn't have anything to fight for. Once Luke entered his life, things changed. He did begin to think about betraying the Emperor. He did think about joining Luke. If his fall had been because he embraced the Dark Side and loved all the hateful thing he did, he wouldn't be able to be redeemed (according to Yoda's teachings). If we want to see a Sith Lord fall to darkness and embrace the hatred, we need to see a new Sith origin story. Vader isn't the Sith Lord you're looking for.

So I agree with R5D8 that this aspect of Vader's story would need to go unchanged.

So, the slaughter of children and elderly wasn't dark enough for you? To me. his heel turn was far too abrupt. Going from defending a friend/father figure to wholesale slaughter of colleagues and children was a bridge too far.

But he did that already. He killed all the Sand People and he admitted, "Not just the men, but the women and the children. I hate them!" That bothered him deeply. It affected him. After having done it once, it was easier to do it to fellow Jedi. And he was sorry for what he had done. You can tell because he is crying on Mustafar after all of the killing is done. He's just trying to keep his head above water, pleasing his new emperor. I don't think he really agrees with what he's doing. But he lies to himself and tries to justify his actions to Obi-Wan. He fools himself into thinking he believes in this new empire, but he really doesn't.

Also, was his heel-turn really that abrupt? We got so many messages that he was disgruntled with the order, with the masters, and with his training. The seeds of doubt were already sown in him. Sometimes it's hard to understand just how upset someone is when you're only looking on the outside. And regardless of how much he disliked the Jedi Order, he couldn't very well say "no" to Palpatine at that point or he'd risk getting fried or he'd have to kill Palpatine. Either of those options would result in the death of Padme and that's the one thing he ever really cared about. So his hands were tied when Palpatine told him to go wipe out the others. He was too afraid to resist, so he followed Palpatines commands and the only way to cope with the horrible things he did was to convince himself that he was doing it for the right reasons.

Aside:

Seriously, he slaughters a whole village of desert nomads and all his girlfriend has to say is, "To be angry is human." She's a humanitarian that serves lots of non-humans and that's all she can say to this atrocity? If so, love has truly blinded her to the nature of the man she will marry. She could have said something. She could have told Obi-Wan, at least. But she didn't, and I think her silence allowed Anakin to keep making bad choices. He always chose the violent way to solve problems rather than the peaceful way.

I can let the Sandpeople incident slide because they raped and tortured his mother (the only family he ever had in a really crappy childhood) to death over a period of weeks or months (I forget exactly). I would have done the same thing. They earned it. Now, if someone told me to go and systematically slaughter dozens/hundreds of colleagues and children on a vague premonition that my wife may or may not die... Sorry honey. Going to have to chance it here. I'm not going to murder children.

I love the guy who did that "What if episode X was good". I hear his Episode 3 version is due out any day now. I'd love to see them completely change the prequels, but at the same time I'd also understand if they made very subtle changes. Like ... suppose they leave Midicloriens IN the story, but instead refer to them as microscopic creatures that are simply ATTRACTED to force-sensitive individuals, thus using them as a measuring tool, but leaving the magic in place.

bbbbbbbbbut Episode 3 WAS good............

It really wasn't, some of the worst dialog, the most boring lightsaber duel at the end, the opening was just awful and stupid and had zero tension because we knew they'd all live.

Wasn't the worst of the prequels but it's still a bad movie.

To be fair though, "because we knew they'd all live" is a pretty common problem with prequels.

It did have a great many issues though.

I love the guy who did that "What if episode X was good". I hear his Episode 3 version is due out any day now. I'd love to see them completely change the prequels, but at the same time I'd also understand if they made very subtle changes. Like ... suppose they leave Midicloriens IN the story, but instead refer to them as microscopic creatures that are simply ATTRACTED to force-sensitive individuals, thus using them as a measuring tool, but leaving the magic in place.

bbbbbbbbbut Episode 3 WAS good............

It really wasn't, some of the worst dialog, the most boring lightsaber duel at the end, the opening was just awful and stupid and had zero tension because we knew they'd all live.

Wasn't the worst of the prequels but it's still a bad movie.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Obviously it does have a lot of problems, but I still think it pulled ahead RotJ.

IMHO it needs more of an extended edition with more scenes building up the story, then editing in general. (I mean my biggest complaint is the whole thing felt rushed)

The huge elephant in the room is that there is no way in heck Padme falls for Anikin. Ever. Unless she is a pedophile. She is at least 20 years older than him (no way any elected official with her power is younger than 30 and he is around 8 or so in Episode 1) and has way more in common with Obi-Wan.

The only way it would work is if he falls for Padme's daughter. Maybe Padme and Obi-Wan's daughter...

never happening, but

NOT SURE IF SPOILERS

...

Rebels is tied to Clone Wars, so they're at least maintaining the canon

The huge elephant in the room is that there is no way in heck Padme falls for Anikin. Ever. Unless she is a pedophile. She is at least 20 years older than him (no way any elected official with her power is younger than 30 and he is around 8 or so in Episode 1) and has way more in common with Obi-Wan.

The only way it would work is if he falls for Padme's daughter. Maybe Padme and Obi-Wan's daughter...

You do know she was 14 when elected Queen? That made her 27 when she died. Five years older than Anakin.

Yeah, firmly established that padme is 14 in phantom menace.

What kind of culture elects 14 year olds as heads of state and galactic senators is a different discussion.

That is definitely one of the first things I would change in the prequels though, add at least 10 years to both their ages. Anakin should have been a Han Solo scoundrel type who happened to be amazingly force sensitive and have the romance mirror that between Han and Leia.

Well, let's not forget that there have been multiple instances of younger people taking up diplomatic roles and political functions. There's quite a lot you can achieve if you build your society towards it, and with the right kind of upbringing you can accomplish a lot.

But the whole Phantom Menace would've been better if Jake Lloyd hadn't been in it, an older actor would've had the benefit of more room in the script.

Yeah, firmly established that padme is 14 in phantom menace.

What kind of culture elects 14 year olds as heads of state and galactic senators is a different discussion.

That is definitely one of the first things I would change in the prequels though, add at least 10 years to both their ages. Anakin should have been a Han Solo scoundrel type who happened to be amazingly force sensitive and have the romance mirror that between Han and Leia.

Well first of all what culture elects a queen? Oh because Princess Leia was part of a democratic society because democracies have princess. (and if any Britains want to chime in I am to remind you that Kate's title is duchess, not princess.)

But yeah it only makes sense because Leia was a princess Amdella had to be a queen, and it was a democracy because democracy is always the good guys against an empire. and yeah the script needs work. But to say who knows 8 years from now, sure start all over with episode 1 then make it all the way back.

There are many countries that elect their head of state, does the name make any difference?

Some civilizations have even been known to elect absolute rulers.

At the moment, we have three princesses in the direct line of succession in my country, one of whom will become the next queen of the Netherlands. Yet we are a democracy. Ranked at number 10 in the Democracy index even. Five of the others in the top 10 are also monarchies by the way.

I count five princesses in the UK at the moment, but I'll let the Brits take that one.

Liz is the head of state, but doesn't have that much actual power in the UK or the commonwealth as a whole, she's a figurehead. Parliament has the real power.

Edit: It's a bit more complicated than that, she can do some major stuff if she wanted/needed. But its...

Ok. Imagine you got this computer, and parliament has all the powers that get the day to day stuff. She can change the OS, she's root, but she isn't the browser, the word processor, the email app etc.

Root/Admin can uninstall, modify and replace the OS but can't function as the OS.

And also handles the long term connections, but that would not apply to Amidala as she was only queen for two terms, a year each?

That would put her more in line with the Roman Consul, powerful, but not all powerful.

And she was born and raised as a politician, probably better trained than most of the politicians we have these days.

I barely trust a 14 year old to mow the lawn properly and keep their room clean much less be the lead negotiator in items of planetary consequence. That and Natalie Portman looked like she was in her 20s when the movie was made (she was 18). That and no 14 year old girl is going to date a 10 year old boy. EVER.

More things that just make the prequels so poorly thought out.

Speculation: Queens of Naboo rule as terms, are groomed but kept young. Maybe to use as future diplomats, maybe to be easily steered by their advisors/courts/politicians (as evident by the entire plot of EP1).

Observation: It's justification for Leia being a princess.

I think it's simpler than that

George needed Democracy for oh so subtle movie conflict w/Imperial Palpatine

still wanted princess/queen to appeal to the little girl demographic

decided not to bother integrating it in a way that made sense; decided to ignore the overlap instead

would've been simple: Naboo has British style monarchy but Padme was so smart and activist-like that she became elected ruler

...at 14

****, that complicates things

okay, it was a monarchy; Padme later abolished it after retaking the city (because democracy) and later became Senator due to her connections to coruscant

Naboo was still a monarchy in later years though.

You can have a democracy while still being a monarchy, it isn't difficult you know.

If you train an entire class of people to rule, from birth, you will end up with good rulers at a young age.

Leia being a princess because Amidala was a queen makes no real sense. First off, there's no Nabooian royal family, secondly and more importantly: nobody knew she was the daughter of Padme and not an Alderaanian by birth. She was raised as a member of the Alderaanian royal family by her adoptive mother the queen and her husband Bail Organa.

Naboo was still a monarchy in later years though.

You can have a democracy while still being a monarchy, it isn't difficult you know.

If you train an entire class of people to rule, from birth, you will end up with good rulers at a young age.

Leia being a princess because Amidala was a queen makes no real sense. First off, there's no Nabooian royal family, secondly and more importantly: nobody knew she was the daughter of Padme and not an Alderaanian by birth. She was raised as a member of the Alderaanian royal family by her adoptive mother the queen and her husband Bail Organa.

<hums the game of thrones theme>

Naboo was still a monarchy in later years though.

You can have a democracy while still being a monarchy, it isn't difficult you know.If you train an entire class of people to rule, from birth, you will end up with good rulers at a young age.

Leia being a princess because Amidala was a queen makes no real sense. First off, there's no Nabooian royal family, secondly and more importantly: nobody knew she was the daughter of Padme and not an Alderaanian by birth. She was raised as a member of the Alderaanian royal family by her adoptive mother the queen and her husband Bail Organa.

<hums the game of thrones theme>

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