Ok, I am only a casual player at the moment, but reading the text on Kanan, is everyone thinking that he can remove stress on Dash?

Kanan Jarrus:

"Once per round, after A friendly ship AT RANGE 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship."

To me that reads any ship but Dash, because he is at range 0.

Where in any rulebook or X-wing publication do you find the concept of "Range 0?"

You're right. What I want to know is this. Do I still use Corran/Poe with this build, since 46 points gets me a choice of two B-wings or two TLTs.

That's another topic entirely =) I would probably start with Corran and see. I think Poe ends up being too cheap to fill in points but also too expensive to squeeze something else in. He might still be worth it, but its more weird that way. Jake + friend might be a possibility as well.

I think a more interesting solution might be Miranda =)

Ok, I am only a casual player at the moment, but reading the text on Kanan, is everyone thinking that he can remove stress on Dash?

Kanan Jarrus:

"Once per round, after A friendly ship AT RANGE 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship."

To me that reads any ship but Dash, because he is at range 0.

Where in any rulebook or X-wing publication do you find the concept of "Range 0?"

In the FAQ, any ability that specifies a range that does not specify exclusion (e.g. ANOTHER ship at Range...), works on the ship itself.

I believe its on the Jan Ors Crew note, who works similarly.

I already preferred Nien Nunb to Katarn, so Kanan represents an unmitigated improvement to me, not a lateral shift.

I think this is 100 points and I'm going to run it:

Dash

PTL

HLC

Kanan

Engine Up

Outrider

Jan

VI

TLT

RecSpec

Moldy

Engine Up

Might tinker with Jan's loadout, since the new turret will offer even more options

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

I got a moldy crow list built around one-shotting aces and it works like a charm. The reactions are priceless. Also got a list almost identical to what Gibarian posted but still haven't gotten around to testing it.

The loss of focus affects the HLC dramatically, especially against phantoms and interceptors. I'm still convinced the standard 58pt Dash is better, if less mobile.

I think the thing to consider is that current 58 point dash most turns has a dial that is 1 & 2 straight and 1 banks.

If you drop the EU you get 4 points back in the rest of your list.

Now a 1 straight + a 1 boost is actually a 4 straight with a big ship.

A 1 bank + a 1 bank boost is only a bit further than a 3 turn.

So in reality by getting rid of the EU and playing Kanan you're getting the same effect but for 4 less points.

Yes you lose some of the more extreme mobility (bank left, BR left, Boost left), but you gain the flexibility of not needing to use boost as 1 of your actions to get distance, effectively gaining back the 'action' that you lose from dropping Kyle Katarn.

The way I see it you have a virtually identical ship but for 4 less points, sounds like a bargain to me. (as long as you can put those freed up 4 points to good use of course)

Except that you lose the considerable power of being able to reposition after moving. Kanan is definitely good, and I'm going to try using him on the Outrider for sure. But dropping EU? No. Having the boost provides a lot of flexibility even when I actually get to use my entire dial, and is definitely worth the four points it will cost me. It's good for a lot more than making up for lost speed.

You are trading a focus token (Kyle) with more maneuverability (you can do your "dashy" moves more effectively...yes even more). Important against TLTs to stay in range (1 turn) and shot at other targets range 2-3

For me, if I would play YT-2400, Kanan would definitively be the first choice.

Kanan Jarrus:

"Once per round, after a friendly ship at Range 1-2 executes a white maneuver, you may remove 1 stress token from that ship."

Dial YT-2400:

you are surprised tat the YT ships are more maneuverable than anything?

rebels won the war the deserve some no-brainers

Canon says otherwise, see TFA the war still being on, even in the Empire's favor. Also see Ep. IV where TIEs make strafing runs on the Falcon, indicating a much greater speed/maneuverability.

Am I right that you can daredevil and immediately clear stress with Kanan?

Am I right that you can daredevil and immediately clear stress with Kanan?

You won't have been stressed when you performed the white maneuver, unless you're Tycho, so Kanan's ability wouldn't have a token to clear.

Kanan does, however, work hilariously with Adrenaline Rush.

Except that you lose the considerable power of being able to reposition after moving. Kanan is definitely good, and I'm going to try using him on the Outrider for sure. But dropping EU? No. Having the boost provides a lot of flexibility even when I actually get to use my entire dial, and is definitely worth the four points it will cost me. It's good for a lot more than making up for lost speed.

You do realise that you still have BR built in right? as I pointed out in my earlier post, 95% of the time all the boost does is get you to the location you would have gotten to had you done a 3 or 4 speed manoeuvre in the first place, the loss of manoeuvrability is only at the extremes (again as I mentioned in my previously post) where you lose the option to 1 bank, BR, Bank Boost.

I guess the question is whether having that 1 extreme movement option (and making yourself far easier to block being restricted to 4 moves on your dial) outweighs the 16 moves Kanan offers + the 4 points extra for the rest of your list.

Genuinely surprised this isn't getting more flak. Everything on Dash's dial besides for the K-turn is now green, this is stupid.

Possible FAQ reversal saying that you're not range one of yourself coming? I sure hope so.

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Rest assured you're still going to see engine upgrade and PtL on him.

So this combo is the nightmare Stressbot fears the most.

DASH with a mellow Jedi (Jello).

Dash+Kanan+Outrider(title)= "Easyrider"

PTL + Kyle + EU

• Green maneuver + Boost moves you a bit farther than a white maneuver
• Better at reacting to low-PS enemy movement
• If you don't need to boost, it's like getting an extra action (focus from Kyle)

PTL + Kanan

• Initial maneuver is harder to predict and block
• 4 points cheaper

Both seem viable -- I'd be inclined to try out PTL + Kanan mostly for the points savings. Or you can go with PTL + Kanan + EU and be the fastest ship in the game

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

Hmm, I don't know where I got it in my head that Kanan's point cost was 2. Sorry.

This upgrade is going to further break Dash. "Dash isn't OP just block him because he's extremely predictable, it only takes 1 ship to block all of his greens." "Just stay at range one, he can't hit you with HLC" Those arguements were already completely bereft of truth before this dumb card was revealed, so does this mean that I win the argument now?

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

This is no more power creep than Calculation. Replacing something isn't played isn't power-creep, its a more successful venture into the same sphere of influence.

Power Creep is when something is so above the curve of worth that everything else in the game must be measured against it.

Like pre-nerf Whisper VI ACD, or the current 35 point Fel build.

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

This is no more power creep than Calculation. Replacing something isn't played isn't power-creep, its a more successful venture into the same sphere of influence.

Power Creep is when something is so above the curve of worth that everything else in the game must be measured against it.

Like pre-nerf Whisper VI ACD, or the current 35 point Fel build.

I suppose. The comment about power creep was mainly a response to the crowd who thought T-70's and TIE/FO's were power creep, it's not a central point of my argument about this card being broken.

I fully agree with your second statement. Since the Phantom there have been ways to stack power upgrades on things such that they pretty much autowin vs. an equal amount of points put into normal ships. Super Corran, even post nerf Phantoms, fat turrets can still solo down 50-60 points of TIEs or B-Wings reliably, MoV nerf did nothing to stop their potency or invincibility, Super Poe.

Super Dash is already game breaking, the current 58 point autowin build is already so above the curve that everything must be measured against it. Adding Kanan is adding way more power creep.

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

This is no more power creep than Calculation. Replacing something isn't played isn't power-creep, its a more successful venture into the same sphere of influence.

Power Creep is when something is so above the curve of worth that everything else in the game must be measured against it.

Like pre-nerf Whisper VI ACD, or the current 35 point Fel build.

I suppose. The comment about power creep was mainly a response to the crowd who thought T-70's and TIE/FO's were power creep, it's not a central point of my argument about this card being broken.

I fully agree with your second statement. Since the Phantom there have been ways to stack power upgrades on things such that they pretty much autowin vs. an equal amount of points put into normal ships. Super Corran, even post nerf Phantoms, fat turrets can still solo down 50-60 points of TIEs or B-Wings reliably, MoV nerf did nothing to stop their potency or invincibility, Super Poe.

Super Dash is already game breaking. This upgrade makes him significantly more so.

I don't think Super Dash is that bad. He's certainly powerful, i'll grant you, but its not like he won worlds...

Also, talk about power creep Jesus Christ. This is hyper Nien Numb for a single point more.

Two points. Maybe we're not all freaking out about it because we can do math.

This is no more power creep than Calculation. Replacing something isn't played isn't power-creep, its a more successful venture into the same sphere of influence.

Power Creep is when something is so above the curve of worth that everything else in the game must be measured against it.

Like pre-nerf Whisper VI ACD, or the current 35 point Fel build.

I suppose. The comment about power creep was mainly a response to the crowd who thought T-70's and TIE/FO's were power creep, it's not a central point of my argument about this card being broken.

I fully agree with your second statement. Since the Phantom there have been ways to stack power upgrades on things such that they pretty much autowin vs. an equal amount of points put into normal ships. Super Corran, even post nerf Phantoms, fat turrets can still solo down 50-60 points of TIEs or B-Wings reliably, MoV nerf did nothing to stop their potency or invincibility, Super Poe.

Super Dash is already game breaking. This upgrade makes him significantly more so.

I don't think Super Dash is that bad. He's certainly powerful, i'll grant you, but its not like he won worlds...

I don't think a pre-nerf Phantom ever won worlds either.

My main issue with him is his hypermobility. Like the pre-nerf phantom, my opponent can just see where my ships have moved to and omnisciently boost and barrel roll out of arc, all the while throwing likely double modified HLC shots at me. There isn't anything you can do unless you also have a turret, you have Acewing ships, or you use a swarm of 8 TIE Fighters as one huge net.

So if you bring a conventional list you autolose to him pretty much. Even if you have PS on him you still have to predict where he'll be with barrel roll and boost on a large ship, which considering he has a turret and a dial better than a TIE Fighter is essentially pointless. He's the best arc dodger in the game.

Surely even if you don't think the current Super Dash is broken, you at least acknowledge how broken making everything that's not a K-Turn green on his dial is, right?

Dash is insanely good, so good that I wouldn't really take issue with anyone who believes he goes beyond insanely good and feels like busting out the "OP" label.

BUT he gets manhandled by Phantoms/Soontir/Vader/etc. I don't think something with such a glaring, easily-exploitable Achilles heel can justify quite the level of description employed by ParaGoomba Slayer (ie. "autowin", "invincible" and so forth)

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

I got a moldy crow list built around one-shotting aces and it works like a charm. The reactions are priceless. Also got a list almost identical to what Gibarian posted but still haven't gotten around to testing it.

I used the Wave 5 version of that list a few times. It was pretty good. But it was notably held back by the lack of a better turret option for Jan.

The Ion wouldn't do, because you wanted some extra damage so Dash didn't have to do absolutely everything. Autoblaster was bad for obvious reasons. So you were stuck with the Blaster Turret, and therefore compelled into a Moldy/RecSpec combo to keep the focus bank solvent.

I've only played Scum since Wave 6, but the TLT looks like just what Jan needed here. The Dorsal will offer even more flex and I'm excited to try out new builds now that Jan's crew and title slots aren't necessarily spoken-for. Although, for the record, I still think Moldy/RecSpec is strong, because it lets her get the most out of her 2 agility when Dash inevitably slips the noose and she becomes the priority target.

Kanan is just a complete gift to this build. Not only does he give Dash the full suite of maneuver options, he'll also frequently be able to remove Jan's stress during rounds where Dash is content with a regular ol' green.

Dash is insanely good, so good that I wouldn't really take issue with anyone who believes he goes beyond insanely good and feels like busting out the "OP" label.

BUT he gets manhandled by Phantoms/Soontir/Vader/etc. I don't think something with such a glaring, easily-exploitable Achilles heel can justify quite the level of description employed by ParaGoomba Slayer (ie. "autowin", "invincible" and so forth)

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

I got a moldy crow list built around one-shotting aces and it works like a charm. The reactions are priceless. Also got a list almost identical to what Gibarian posted but still haven't gotten around to testing it.

I used the Wave 5 version of that list a few times. It was pretty good. But it was notably held back by the lack of a better turret option for Jan.

The Ion wouldn't do, because you wanted some extra damage so Dash didn't have to do absolutely everything. Autoblaster was bad for obvious reasons. So you were stuck with the Blaster Turret, and therefore compelled into a Moldy/RecSpec combo to keep the focus bank solvent.

I've only played Scum since Wave 6, but the TLT looks like just what Jan needed here. The Dorsal will offer even more flex and I'm excited to try out new builds now that Jan's crew and title slots aren't necessarily spoken-for. Although, for the record, I still think Moldy/RecSpec is strong, because it lets her get the most out of her 2 agility when Dash inevitably slips the noose and she becomes the priority target.

Kanan is just a complete gift to this build. Not only does he give Dash the full suite of maneuver options, he'll also frequently be able to remove Jan's stress during rounds where Dash is content with a regular ol' green.

People said the same thing about the Phantom before it was nerfed.

There isn't anything you can do unless you also have a turret, you have Acewing ships, or you use a swarm of 8 TIE Fighters as one huge net.

You forgot stress control lists.

And ta-da! It's the meta!

Imagine that.

Dash is insanely good, so good that I wouldn't really take issue with anyone who believes he goes beyond insanely good and feels like busting out the "OP" label.

BUT he gets manhandled by Phantoms/Soontir/Vader/etc. I don't think something with such a glaring, easily-exploitable Achilles heel can justify quite the level of description employed by ParaGoomba Slayer (ie. "autowin", "invincible" and so forth)

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

I got a moldy crow list built around one-shotting aces and it works like a charm. The reactions are priceless. Also got a list almost identical to what Gibarian posted but still haven't gotten around to testing it.

I used the Wave 5 version of that list a few times. It was pretty good. But it was notably held back by the lack of a better turret option for Jan.

The Ion wouldn't do, because you wanted some extra damage so Dash didn't have to do absolutely everything. Autoblaster was bad for obvious reasons. So you were stuck with the Blaster Turret, and therefore compelled into a Moldy/RecSpec combo to keep the focus bank solvent.

I've only played Scum since Wave 6, but the TLT looks like just what Jan needed here. The Dorsal will offer even more flex and I'm excited to try out new builds now that Jan's crew and title slots aren't necessarily spoken-for. Although, for the record, I still think Moldy/RecSpec is strong, because it lets her get the most out of her 2 agility when Dash inevitably slips the noose and she becomes the priority target.

Kanan is just a complete gift to this build. Not only does he give Dash the full suite of maneuver options, he'll also frequently be able to remove Jan's stress during rounds where Dash is content with a regular ol' green.

People said the same thing about the Phantom before it was nerfed.

To be sure. I think there's a difference in degree, though. For one, countering a Phantom with higher PS still required dice to be rolled. Getting into Dash's donut hole can be a much more severe "welp game over" situation. Although admittedly less-so with the FAQ'd version of the Phantom - the old ones could do it without breaking a sweat.

Anyway, a couple of other points re: my excitement for Jan/Dash

- the build could have trouble getting to 100 points, and XXX Tracers seem like they'll be the best "hey why not?" option to stick in the Outrider's missile tubes

- if/when the inevitable small ship-only "gain the SLAM action" mod comes out, forget about it. The final weakness in the list is Jan's sometimes-inability to keep up with Dash