Stress-bot or TLT Tactician is still a pain for this ship or any other that depends on actions. Double stress is hard on almost anyone.

I like that Kanan provides unpredictability and not just extreme action economy like Kyle. Rewards better maneuver choice not just set a 1 straight and then boost, roll and still have focus for attack.

The Kanan build is harder to block. The question, though, is whether or not the added options will free Dash up to dodge with one action rather than two. If Dash still needs to boost and barrel roll to avoid fire, it's not going to work. Unmodified HLC shots are not terribly impressive.

I'd take the 4 unmodded reds Kanan's offering over the two modded greens Kyle's giving any day

Seems like you take Kanan instead of Kyle and then hand the Engine Upgrade over to Corran. That's a pretty maneuverable list.

Now I want to see a 5 die HLC 1-shot a T-65

I've done it. Range 1 Bossk Opportunist, rolled 4 hits and a crit. Poe doesn't roll an evade. Poe dead. The kicker? Torkil made him ps 0.

Except that you lose the considerable power of being able to reposition after moving. Kanan is definitely good, and I'm going to try using him on the Outrider for sure. But dropping EU? No. Having the boost provides a lot of flexibility even when I actually get to use my entire dial, and is definitely worth the four points it will cost me. It's good for a lot more than making up for lost speed.

You do realise that you still have BR built in right? as I pointed out in my earlier post, 95% of the time all the boost does is get you to the location you would have gotten to had you done a 3 or 4 speed manoeuvre in the first place, the loss of manoeuvrability is only at the extremes (again as I mentioned in my previously post) where you lose the option to 1 bank, BR, Bank Boost.

I guess the question is whether having that 1 extreme movement option (and making yourself far easier to block being restricted to 4 moves on your dial) outweighs the 16 moves Kanan offers + the 4 points extra for the rest of your list.

BR is good, but not always what I want or need. Boost can get me out of arcs when barrel roll can't, if they're directly to my side, and lets me adjust my position if my opponent did something I wasn't expecting. That and sometimes I may need both to get where I want to be, though that won't happen as often with Kanan.

Flying Vader has shown me just how much return I get on my four points by equipping EU, and large ships arguably get a bigger benefit from it.

Based on Kaman, I think the Tractor beam cannon will turn white maneuvers red.

This due to the specific wording on Kaman, as differing from R2 or Nien

Based on Kaman, I think the Tractor beam cannon will turn white maneuvers red.

This due to the specific wording on Kaman, as differing from R2 or Nien

For no damage it better turn all you're maneuvers red. Would that break the game? Tlt stress bot with 3 tractor bwings?

Based on Kaman, I think the Tractor beam cannon will turn white maneuvers red.

This due to the specific wording on Kaman, as differing from R2 or Nien

For no damage it better turn all you're maneuvers red. Would that break the game? Tlt stress bot with 3 tractor bwings?

It might increase the difficulty level, turning green into white and white into red.

Would it break the game? It is mitigated by the fact that you deal no damage.

It would also turn the game to the better pilot, maneuvering to break the Tractor lock.

Based on Kaman, I think the Tractor beam cannon will turn white maneuvers red.

This due to the specific wording on Kaman, as differing from R2 or Nien

For no damage it better turn all you're maneuvers red. Would that break the game? Tlt stress bot with 3 tractor bwings?

It might increase the difficulty level, turning green into white and white into red.

Would it break the game? It is mitigated by the fact that you deal no damage.

It would also turn the game to the better pilot, maneuvering to break the Tractor lock.

I was thinking more of tractoring a stressed target. Can I see your dial please?

I was thinking more of tractoring a stressed target. Can I see your dial please?

And that would be breaking the game. Besides, a Tractor Beam shouldn't allow you to choose a straight 5 off the board. .

It should make it more difficult to maneuver, more stressful on the ship (remember the shaking of the Falcon when it tried to break away from the Death Star?),

Wonder if a 1300 with Kanan and Kyle could work. No C3PO, but focus, evade and target lock each turn.

Should work.

my opponent can just see where my ships have moved to and omnisciently boost and barrel roll out of arc, all the while throwing likely double modified HLC shots at me.

Sounds like you're letting your opponents cheat way too much. If Dash is boosting and barrel rolling out of everyone's arc, he has to be the highest PS. If he's the highest PS he has to have VI (and let's not even talk about all the PS10 Poes and PS11 Vaders...). If he takes VI he doesn't have PtL. And if he doesn't have PtL he can't boost AND barrel roll.

AND EVEN IF HE DOES have PtL, he can't boost, barrel roll, focus, AND target lock for "double modified" shots.

Seriously, get over yourself.

Maybe there's a Cracken with squad leader...and dash with ptl. Maybe?

Maybe there's a Cracken with squad leader...and dash with ptl. Maybe?

Slaying ParaGoomba

Slaying ParaGoomba

my opponent can just see where my ships have moved to and omnisciently boost and barrel roll out of arc, all the while throwing likely double modified HLC shots at me.

Sounds like you're letting your opponents cheat way too much. If Dash is boosting and barrel rolling out of everyone's arc, he has to be the highest PS. If he's the highest PS he has to have VI (and let's not even talk about all the PS10 Poes and PS11 Vaders...). If he takes VI he doesn't have PtL. And if he doesn't have PtL he can't boost AND barrel roll.

AND EVEN IF HE DOES have PtL, he can't boost, barrel roll, focus, AND target lock for "double modified" shots.

Seriously, get over yourself.

I tend not to fly aces or fat turrets because I want to enjoy myself. When you play normal lists composed of generics you autolose vs. Dash. The stresshog isn't in everyone of my lists and even then it's just going to arc dodge that.

With Kyle you get a focus token. So you can do a boost or barrel roll and TL for fully loaded shots.

Why don't you succumb to reason? How come you can't see that a turret ship that moves wherever the hell it wants to regardless of what maneuver you give it and that gets 3 actions a turn is ruining a game based on maneuvering and making sure that you get actions?

Seriously, get better taste.

1) I tend not to fly aces or fat turrets because I want to enjoy myself. When you play normal lists composed of generics you autolose vs. Dash. The stresshog isn't in everyone of my lists and even then it's just going to arc dodge that.

2) With Kyle you get a focus token. So you can do a boost or barrel roll and TL for fully loaded shots.

3) Why don't you succumb to reason? How come you can't see that a turret ship that moves wherever the hell it wants to regardless of what maneuver you give it and that gets 3 actions a turn is ruining a game based on maneuvering and making sure that you get actions?

1) Then you're aware your list will have certain difficulties in certain matchups that those lists would not. Adjust how you fly accordingly. Stop using "autolose". Sit down at the table with that attitude and you might. Learn to fly a swarm like Morgan Reid and you won't.

2) You said boost AND barrel roll AND double modified shot. Read your own post.

3) Hyperbole is not reason. No ship moves "wherever the hell it wants to regardless of what maneuver you give it"... it moves "wherever the hell the maneuver you give it sends it", then can modify its position afterward. Hyperbole.

Shaming players fro enjoying different aspects of the game than you do is not OK.

Super Dash as we know him now is easy to block, I don't get how you don't accept that, took you for someone competent at flying generics. The dial is way too good, but the greens are those of a HWK.

I do agree with you on Kanan Dash, though. That is going to be a nightmare. PTL with green one turns and just everything? Makes me a bit scared. But not too much, the Stresshog matchup is going to be significantly worse without the free focus from Kyle.

In the end I believe it comes down to you not accepting that X-Wing has grown out of the "you can put anything on the table and it works!" phase. In theory such a thing sounds nice, but it makes squadbuilding terribly boring in my opinion. There is no point in making a squad with Deathrain in it when you only see BBBBZ and TIE swarms. Building lists in a way that is capable of answering threats that are to be expected is now required and a skill on its own. While I see why you don't, I enjoy that. Building smart lists is my pleasure.

I already preferred Nien Nunb to Katarn, so Kanan represents an unmitigated improvement to me, not a lateral shift.

I think this is 100 points and I'm going to run it:

Dash

PTL

HLC

Kanan

Engine Up

Outrider

Jan

VI

TLT

RecSpec

Moldy

Engine Up

Might tinker with Jan's loadout, since the new turret will offer even more options

VI Jan is solid with TLT, but I think in a 2-ship list you're going to want the better damage instead of dropping to the Dorsal. The best part about your list is that, if Dash doesn't actually need Kanan that turn, Jan is probably going to be stressed too. A clutch 2-Turn can be a big deal for a HWK, and Kanan can make that happen.

Wonder if a 1300 with Kanan and Kyle could work. No C3PO, but focus, evade and target lock each turn.

PtL Chewie with an Engine and the MF title should love this. That's your anvil, dang. That Wookiee is going to be tough to put down.

PtL Chewie with an Engine and the MF title should love this. That's your anvil, dang. That Wookiee is going to be tough to put down.

I'm not sure you even need Engine Upgrade. With the entire dial open even Soontir will struggle to predict where he's going to go, and boost and barrel roll can only take you so far. I was thinking maybe Chewie with Kanan, Kyle, PTL and tite. That's 52 points, leaving enough for four Headhunters.

Engine Upgrade here would mostly help against TLT carriers, so with lots of those in the meta I'd consider swapping the Zs for Engine and a couple of Bs and/or Integrated T-65s.

my opponent can just see where my ships have moved to and omnisciently boost and barrel roll out of arc, all the while throwing likely double modified HLC shots at me.

Sounds like you're letting your opponents cheat way too much. If Dash is boosting and barrel rolling out of everyone's arc, he has to be the highest PS. If he's the highest PS he has to have VI (and let's not even talk about all the PS10 Poes and PS11 Vaders...). If he takes VI he doesn't have PtL. And if he doesn't have PtL he can't boost AND barrel roll.

AND EVEN IF HE DOES have PtL, he can't boost, barrel roll, focus, AND target lock for "double modified" shots.

Seriously, get over yourself.

I tend not to fly aces or fat turrets because I want to enjoy myself. When you play normal lists composed of generics you autolose vs. Dash. The stresshog isn't in everyone of my lists and even then it's just going to arc dodge that.

With Kyle you get a focus token. So you can do a boost or barrel roll and TL for fully loaded shots.

Why don't you succumb to reason? How come you can't see that a turret ship that moves wherever the hell it wants to regardless of what maneuver you give it and that gets 3 actions a turn is ruining a game based on maneuvering and making sure that you get actions?

Seriously, get better taste.

(looks at Worlds results)

Yup. Totally ruined.

The pre-nerf phantom didn't win worlds either I don't think.

The pre-nerf phantom didn't win worlds either I don't think.

But it actually made it to the final table, something Dash hasn't done yet. It was also the 2nd most popular ship Imperial side.

There were also 2 Phantoms in the top 8, and 4 in the top 16. There were also 7 YT-1300's in the top 16. There was not however a single Dash.