To Vassal and Beyond... a Journey

By Grayfax, in X-Wing Squad Lists

A journey of ten thousand steps begins with the first one. I wish I could remember more about that first one, but I do remember the excitement of the purchase and bringing the box home. Tearing shrink wrap and joy in discovery. Removing ships from their plastic carbonite frames and assembling them. Punching out cardboard pieces and the amazement at all of the cardboard rulers and maneuver templates. The dice.. but then I always love dice... separate obsession.

I then began to try and read the manual while all of this stuff was laying on the table just waiting to be used but I didn't know how. The quick start rules were much simpler, so I read that and fielded the pieces needed for the X-Wing versus the 2 TIE Fighters. I'm sure I did a lot wrong, but the ships flew and fired and died. I have no idea who won. That wasn't important really... it was the experience of flying the ships that I was excited about. I'm pretty sure I set it up and did it again before diving into the larger rulebook. Partly because I wanted to figure out about these asteroid looking pieces and what were all these extra little cards for and how did I use them? It grows hazy after that, but I remember dreaming about X-Wing for nearly a week. I never dreamed that much about anything, even the bad days as a waiter twenty years ago.

My excitement was contagious and my wife played a couple of times to probably make me feel better and it was my birthday month the following month, so that helped. I don't really remember those games either except her conversion to the Empire because she kept feeling bad for killing the heroes and it didn't feel as bad when the Empire died. That was kind of an eye opening statement and I realized I had never thought about it one way or the other.

I was obsessed with the forums. I was obsessed with videos. I bought another core set quickly. I bought the Millenium Falcon, because, who wouldn't? It's iconic! I bought a TIE Fighter for Howlrunner. I practiced swarm flying with asteroids. I played games against myself. I bought the Rebel Aces and the Imperial Aces and a third TIE Interceptor. Somewhere in there I bought a TIE Advanced before learning that was a poor decision. I bought an E-Wing and the Transport with the extra X-Wing. I still do not have all the X-Wing cards because I never bought the basic X-Wing expansion. I bought a Shuttle and actually kind of liked it more than I thought I would (the model is fantastic). I bought a Tantive IV. I bought Battlefoam (432). And then I stopped...

I live in a mid-sized University town in Texas, but the closest game store is over 75 miles away. We do have a Hastings, which actually carries (from time to time) a far number of X-Wing products, but it is not the same as a FLGS. I took a look at Vassal, but at the time was stuck using my laptop with a 15" screen and it was very crowded and confusing and I did not stick with it enough to figure it all out.

I was cast in back to back plays for nearly nine months. "And some things that should not be forgotten were lost..."

Thanksgiving came and I knew I would have enough time and space to play and I was at the end of my long string of nightly theatre. I took my pack with almost all of my ships, the cards, the tokens, the templates, etc. to my parents house where my nieces and nephews were going to be for five days. They range in age from eight to fifteen. I didn't know who might be interested or if any were, but with the movie coming up, I figured I had a shot at someone wanting to play.

Surprisingly, my brother was the first to play. We ran the quick start with nothing but the three ships. I remember him being surly, so I'm pretty sure he lost. I then ran the same thing with his third child and oldest boy. The next morning I put together two basic lists. Fat Han with Luke and a Rookie on one side. A mini Howlrunner swarm with Soontir Fel on the other. He chose Luke and Han. At 10 he was grasping concepts faster than his father was. I think I spent more time trying to help him than working with my own ships, and being out of practice ran over some asteroids. He won that game and now he was hooked. To be honest, so was I.

The fun of the game is still there. I had allowed life to walk in and take some of that away. Several things happened in that time as well, including the last of my wife's family moving out (at one time there were four with us). Suddenly I found myself with time to do things I want to do (instead of memorizing vast amounts of lines), the ability to rearrange the house and bring my computer back online for a 24" screen with a secondary monitor of the living room TV. I rekindled fire for X-Wing with potential opponents several times per year.

And then I installed Vassal on my computer and it was night and day compared to the laptop. So... I find myself at a juncture where I will pursue Vassal as a way to learn to play even though I know of no other person in 50 miles that plays (I'm sure they are there... there are too many pieces going off the shelves, but I have no way of finding out who they are). I figured out the bare bones basics last night, including saving and restoring a squad and some movement. I'm sure some of it will be wrong, but I'm going to try to see if I can play regularly and begin to actually learn the game.

So... why am I writing this beginning to a novel? Partly so I can learn how to analyze what I am doing and begin working on lists I like to fly. Partly so I can get to know other players on more than just the forum. Partly so I can look back on my progress and hopefully see that I am making some.

First, I want to keep things a little simpler while I am learning how to interact with Vassal. So my first list will be:

Vassal Novice Blues

T-70 X-Wing

Blue Squadron Novice (24)
R2 Astromech (1)
T-70 X-Wing
Blue Squadron Novice (24)
R2 Astromech (1)
B-Wing
Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Fire-Control System (2)
B-Wing
Blue Squadron Pilot (22)
Fire-Control System (2)
Total: 98
This will let me fly the new ships a little and see how they compare to the older X-Wings, but without a lot of upgrade cards or situational shenanigans, I can focus more on the UI and the game than on trying to remember what all I'm supposed to be doing.
Edited by Grayfax

Welcome to Vassal. I really enjoy it, as I just had a baby and can't leave the house to drive the FLGS (well< i can, but staying for 5 to 6 hours to make the trip worthwhile is out of the question).

The trick in Vassal is learning movement, as you have to learn the distancing all over again.

To get started, I'd firth stop thinking of it as its own new direction. Make whatever lists you want. However, I would recommend using a mix of large and small base ships and seeing how the maneuver.

Also, hotkeys are your friend.

The biggest issue with Vassal is the one from the tabletop, IMO, and that is setup time.

So, TL:DR, make a few practice sessions, setup, move through asteroids, then ask some players to play with you in the waiting room. The practice will help keep pacing, and keep you from flying off the board.

VASSAL is a great way to get in a game. I've got kids too, so getting to the game store is difficult most of the time. Most of the people are civil too, so its pretty unusual to have a negative play experience (at least that's how its been for me so far and I've been playing on it for about a year). Sometimes I'm too tired to play, but I log onto VASSAL anyway to see what other games are going on. Its also nice to watch other people play on occasion, because you can practice 'guessing' (try to predict what moves the players are going to do, and see how often you are right). Its also interesting when you are wrong, because then you can think about whether the move you thought they would do is objectively better than the move they actually did and think about the different advantages in positioning.

Edited by blade_mercurial

Thanks, Kaimuund. Looking at distancing is definitely different. I noticed that right away and may have to fiddle with map size a bit before I settle in on a final size. I intend to add in some large ships next after I've flown this first list a bit. Partly list building is a bit different, because pretty much anything is open. I'll often list build for "what-ifs" in YASB, but I rarely save any of them as I try to only keep lists I am serious about buying expansions for or lists that I already have all the cards for. To that end, I sat down and looked at what I wanted to fly on Vassal if anything was available and realized that I wanted something without too many upgrade cards at first until I get used to it all. Then I'll start working my way through different movement types and then on to synergistic lists. I also don't want to start playing with a whole lot of upgrade cards I don't have and trying to remember what I can't look at... though if I bought a new printer, I guess I could print them out and use the reference text to jog my memory.

As for asteroid flying, that is part of what got me to my current list. I was goofing around with Dash and two Grays and in the fifth turn realized that I was so focused on trying to keep up with everything that I was trying to fly around obstacles instead of over them (to the point that I ended up with no choice but to fly him into the sunset). I got a good laugh at that one... but realized I needed to focus on transitioning to Vassal and then bring back in the other parts. And I need to lose a lot so that I start paying attention to what others are doing that I'm not doing, that will come in time.

I noticed the Observe button, and I figured that was fairly intuitive, but I haven't tried that out yet. Does anyone do any kind of audio for Vassal games or is it strictly chat based? I realize that there are players from around the world, but just wasn't sure.

Some of Vassal I am understanding more and am becoming comfortable logging in and building a squad. Even to the point of using it on my MacBook Pro again, which is good for list building... not sure about playing yet, as I like having a second screen for all of the windows. Got to watch the last half of MajorJuggler versus Intercepter last night. Would have liked to have caught it prior to the first exchange, but I still learned a little bit.

I was also looking at a build to work with the Empire that I haven't flown without all of the Soontir Fel shenanigans (at least until I can judge distances better on a computer). Not wanting to run a Crack Swarm but wanting to play with Weapons Guidance:

Epsilon My Epsilon

TIE/fo Fighter

"Epsilon Leader" (19)
TIE/fo Fighter
Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Weapons Guidance (2)
TIE/fo Fighter
Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Weapons Guidance (2)
TIE/fo Fighter
Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Weapons Guidance (2)
TIE/fo Fighter
Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
TIE/fo Fighter
Epsilon Squadron Pilot (15)
Total: 100
I plan on burying Epsilon Leader in the back row and put the three Weapons Guidance ships at the front. It will be a race to Range 1, but gives a little option at further ranges and might make Epsilon Leader last a bit longer. Will still miss Howlrunner, but being able to have movement options will be interesting. If they choose Epsilon Leader, I do more damage. If they leave him alone, we move more. At least in theory... what happens after engagement and asteroids will be a different story.
Man! There are a lot of shortcuts in Vassal. I am learning them, but mostly I have the ship building ones down and I am still confused on how some of the ship action tokens work or whether I should be using the tokens and removing them.

I started Vassal pretty recently, but most of the controls and hotkeys seem to be intuitive as you use them more. This series of video's has actually been really helpful for me, both in vassal and out.

Also, the community on Vassal is about one of the best I've seen. If you need to practice or learn anything, feel free to ask for a practice match. They are all really nice people who were incredibly patient when I started. Anyway, have a great time on Vassal, and if you'd like we could even schedule a game some time.

Man! There are a lot of shortcuts in Vassal. I am learning them, but mostly I have the ship building ones down and I am still confused on how some of the ship action tokens work or whether I should be using the tokens and removing them.

The nice thing is, you can always right click on a ship to bring up the menu showing all of the possible things you can do with that ship (I believe it shows all the shortcuts too in case you forget). As for tokens, you can either use the shortcuts (that put actions on the side of the ship) or use real tokens. Both are acceptable. If you use real tokens, I suggest 'saving' them as part of your squad (or at least one of each---you can always copy if you need more in a match with CTRL + C). You usually need to do this with the red target lock tokens no matter what (unless you don't have TL actions in your squad)

Edited by blade_mercurial

Between finishing up work for the year and staying on the forums too much (not to mention being away from home more than I would like), I haven't been on Vassal much at all. Hopefully I can change that this week and next. Also, with the new Patreonage for Scum and Villainy, I was trying to think of a theme list I would like to try and fly. My main requirement, it needs a Black Sun Ace...

I have also been reading Scum lists for a while so I knew I wanted to put in Prince Xizor if at all possible and then put the Black Sun Ace (Kihraxz Fighter) as his Bodyguard. With a few upgrades there was room for 3 Z95 Headhunters and that was it. I figure I would put the Prince and the Ace at the back and send the other three out to "learn" how to fly or die trying! Nothing like learning to fly in a syndicate!

Black Sun Recruits

Prince Xizor (31)
Predator (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)
Black Sun Ace (23)
Bodyguard (2)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

And... that should wrap up a test squad for each faction on Vassal, though I'll need to build this one out. Hope to see some of you online this week! I know that Kelvan is asking for lists, but some of us just do not feel confident enough in list building to submit something to try out from a relative novice...

Edited by Grayfax

Black Sun Recruits

Prince Xizor (31)
Predator (3)
Fire-Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)
Black Sun Ace (23)
Bodyguard (2)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Binayre Pirate (12)
Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

And... that should wrap up a test squad for each faction on Vassal, though I'll need to build this one out. Hope to see some of you online this week! I know that Kelvan is asking for lists, but some of us just do not feel confident enough in list building to submit something to try out from a relative novice...

Xizor is great!

However, he doesn't need any 'bodyguard'. His own pilot ability protects him more than enough (no one wants to shoot him so long as there are other ships within range 1). I would strongly suggest dropping bodyguard from the list, because all it does is make your Blacksun Ace even more of an obvious first target. I am willing to bet that when you fly this list, most opponents are going to try to kill the BSA first, regardless of whether he has bodyguard or not.

Another slight 'issue' with the list is that predator and FCS do basically the same thing. The only advantage predator has is it allows a re-roll (sometimes 2) on every single attack. FCS on the other hand allows re-rolls (by spending the TL) after the first attack and doesn't like it when the carrier has to switch targets frequently (because you are not getting to use that TL as much).

So, I would suggest going with either predator OR FCS. Two common Xizor builds that you might want to consider:

Veteran instincts, virago, FCS & autothrusters = 37

Predator, virago, advanced sensors & autothrusters = 40

If you have room, I find flechette torpedoes rather useful on Xizor too (specifically for dealing with IG88 and soontir fel, but its useful against any ship that stresses itself, such as after making a red move).

Edited by blade_mercurial

Welcome to Vassal, Grayfax!

The many shortcuts can be daunting at first, but you learn to use it effectively faster than you will notice. And if you forget a shortcut, you can always right click on the miniature - it really is much easier done than said, in this case.

What kept me from Vassal at first was exactly this, and now I know that I should have gotten in much sooner. I became a much better player with Vassal... There you get to play the very best people, and so you learn a lot from it (and also from watching matches).

And if you want to play Xizor, I have recently taken him to a tournament. You can find the write up here, with all matches and also my take on the build I took. You will also find a link to another topic I had here prior to taking the prince, where a lot of fellow players helped me with tips. I think you might find it useful.

Have fun, and maybe we might even be playing each other soon ^^ (my username in Vassal is the same)

Edited by mtrein

Thanks blade_mercurial, I love your critical analysis of lists and those are things I need to look at instead of individual card for the slot. Synergy is important but it is easy to get sucked into looking at points and a specific card. I'll revisit that one shortly. mtrein, I enjoyed your discussion of Prince Xizor and it influenced my thinking... and I was purposefully including the Black Sun Ace, so had necessary divergence.

Had a spontaneous game tonight on Vassal... my first one... against Major Juggler. Really, it was more Me and MJ versus Major Juggler. He wanted to play against PaulD's list for the bracket. Sooo... we scrambled to put together the following for my side of the board:

Corran Horn + Push the Limit + Engine Upgrade + Fire-Control System + R2-D2
Biggs Darklighter + R4-D6 + Integrated Astromech
Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret + R3-A2 + BTL-A4 Y-Wing

(100)

Major Juggler was flying his Death Wardens of Doom... or whatever he calls them.

Gold Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret + R3-A2 + BTL-A4 Y-Wing

Warden Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret + Tactician + Long Range Scanners

Warden Squadron Pilot + Twin Laser Turret + Tactician + Long Range Scanners

Bandit Squadron Pilot

(100)

Lesson #1: Don't rush to put together a list you have never flown anywhere... in fact, I never even pulled shield, focus, stress or evade tokens... though I was able to use the ship ones for what I needed.

We both started off slow from opposite corners. I took mine up the right side heading for a decent opening in the rocks. I was trying to keep Biggs with Corran and might as well keep a loose formation with the Y-Stress. MJ took a hard right and then a hard left to see where I was going into the field and turned with a line of three and his Y-Wing off to his side of the board. I had a good approach and then took personal stress instead of a deep breath and threw down k-turns... yep... k-turns on all three ships. I completely misjudged range and even though MJ had been rolling in slow I wasn't sure how far he would push as he had a good line. He still slow rolled and my ships were short... and stressed and turned around.

Lesson #2: K-Turn is never your friend, even though it will just keep on calling... and calling you...

Lesson #3: Y-Wings stress easily and cannot K-Turn. Lesson #2 is especially important when looking at the dial on the Y-Stress.

MJ called it a scrimmage and flipped my ships around. Oh, and did I mention the asteroid? Yep. Hits on both Biggs and Corran. As for the Y-Stress, MJ should have placed it on a rock, but he did a 3-bank and placed me beside it instead.

Lesson #4: Practice movements more on Vassal. The distances look so very different and seem so far, but in fact are much shorter than appears. Note: Put T-Rex in front of screen for Vassal Games as a reminder that "objects in screen are closer than they appear!"

Lesson #5: Green dice. Green dice. Green dice... wow...

Ok, so to make his "practice session" more practice than duck shoot. MJ flipped my squad around and put them in position to fire. I still lost some in passing over the asteroid, but hey... thems the breaks. I fired with Corran and Biggs and dinged the Y-Wing a little. Yes, he was at range 3 to Corran, but I knew in theory he was the biggest obstacle to Corran flying fast once Biggs went down in flames. He was at 2 to Biggs and neither one really did a lot of damage. Onesies and twosies. Then the gates of TLTell opened and wrath poured out on Biggs and Corran. Both died in the opening salvo. The dice deserted me completely. [FOCUS] and his little friend [bLANK] showed up at the party, but no one else did. Who even needs Tacticians?

Lesson #6: Gold Y-Stress really hates Z-95s! The primary versus the Warden was ok, but both of the TLT shots on the Bandit were Hit, Hit, Crit or Crit, Crit, Hit. I think I used up all my good dice in one set of throws, and it shows that once again, red are superior to green.

Lesson #7: For emphasis. Red dice are superior to green dice.

Lesson #8: Really need to learn how all of the TLT mechanic works. I thought I understood it, but man, was I lost before all of that was over. Forgot that it was only one damage after being cancelled on a successful hit. Mostly I did not really know how to use the stresshog. Particularly the firing the primary and then activating TLT shots. And then range got in the way and I mixed that up too. Understanding components does not mean comprehension during a fight.

I don't know that I would call this an enjoyable experience, though I am grateful for Major Juggler taking the time to help me learn and that he actually is fairly verbose in the chat. I'm also glad we were not playing over some video interface, cause I know my face was red in embarrassment several times. All in all, it was a good horrible match. May I never have another so bad. It was also my first match on Vassal, so if nothing else, I made progress and Major Juggler donated more time to the community... may I someday be able to do the same for someone else!

Heh, I wouldn't worry too much about it. I think everybody has bad games, and I mean everybody. I remember talking to Theorist (considered one of the best players on VASSAL) about the same sort of thing. I was surprised at how many examples he had to contribute ;)

One thing about the dice: having mods makes a big difference. Even reds will abandon you without a focus or target lock. For that reason, I always try to pick up target locks whenever I can (but NEVER at the expense of defense---a TL does you no good if your ship dies!)

VASSAL is different than the tabletop. I believe it is to the correct scale, but the smaller size throws you off. It also throws off your regular game when you switch back and forth (this happened to me at a tournament on Sunday----I forgot how 'long' moves were on the tabletop because I was thinking in VASSAL terms, where everything seems 'shorter')

I think its still worth it though, because unless you have an LGS relatively close by that you can get to on at least a weekly basis, its really hard to get good practice for this game. VASSAL 'solves' that problem at least because there seems to always be players looking for games (most of the time)

Next time you are looking for a game, don't feel pressured to play a specific list, don't be afraid to insist using a list you are actually interested in. While I realize that was a special case and not likely to happen to you again, its not surprising that the game did not go well for you considering it was a list you were completely unfamiliar with. I've actually had the very same experience (different player, different list, but same idea) and I wouldn't do it again because my game went pretty much like yours...

Welcome to the community Grayfax!

A few things:

1. Hit me up anytime, I'd love to play/teach what I can! I've been flying really well with my new imp list; of course I'm not a world champ so I've plenty to learn myself...but I want everyone to love and enjoy this game.

2. The last part of the above: I've loved X-Wing for years (3+ to be exact heh) but I've had times where I just get angry and annoyed due to the dice involved. I leaned heavily on Armada (which noticeably reduces the impact dice can have on your battle-plan) but since I've plowed back into X-Wing (with a large boost from TFA Core and new Imperial Veterans info) I've noticed some huge changes.

3. As blade said: dice mods are life! Since i've been exclusively flying my Vessery list (I love TIEs and namely the Defender) i've noticed a MUCH different game experience when you actually play "properly" and set up ways to modify dice. I've actually taken care to pay attention to situations where my and my opponent "dice off" by just rolling unmodified junk dice...it's never good for one/both people.

I specifically threw a targeting computer on Dark Curse for my previous iteration of the list to give my main gun two sources of "free" target locks; and it helped him AND Dark Curse a lot. Since then i've swapped two a pair of identical Epsilon pilots with Comm Relays and the sheer work those things can apply to a list (esp with Vessery) is beyond reproach. I actually don't think I've lost either Epsilon in my ~7 games with them...only my bomber. Perma evade + focus to defense and moving to block and set up a TL so i can hold a TL+evade till needed and spend all my moves an actions to block/turtle/dodge is utterly insane.

4. Playing a list you love, I feel, makes you 100x more competent at the game. I've noticed this with every game played. If you, mentally, love the idea of what you're playing then it'll just feel better and you'll often just play better to boot. So, again as blade said, don't judge a game where you're helping someone test a list you don't LOVE as anything of what you CAN do. Just take the learning you can from it...maybe look for ships/combos you don't normally consider and see if they fit you're style at all.

5. Have fun. I've, especially with Armada, stopped being so invested in the winning and situations such that even when I get wrecked by dice or something bad happens I don't let it affect me as much as It has in years past. You can do a TON to mitigate random chance..more than I ever noticed when I played before my withdraw to Armada. So take bad dice as an indication that you should try to figure out a new way to fly:

Position differently

Set up more actions for dice mods (trust me, this is what can make your perception of randomness in X-Wing. This is comeing from someone who did a 180 on this stance is the past month or two)

Laugh at Fel's poor luck! hehe, have fun. Esp on vassal.

6. Last, Vassal is interesting in how it differs from tabletop. It's so nice to have all the commands built in. It saves time, i feel, for a lot of things...but it is a different medium for sure. I've never had a lot of issue with distance and angles on vassal myself. The translation of moves from table/computer isn't as noticeable for me. What I DO notice is the insanity of the fire arcs. What i'm SURE is in is often way out when I flip them on in vassal. Bugs me to no end. Waste so many actions just BRing to make SURE i don't get screwed by Vassal's funky angles :D

Again, welcome! I like your generics lists to learn. However, my one suggestion in X-Wing and Armada is to specifically look to take a lot varied things. These games are one of the few Miniature games that actually allow for you to eschew redundancy and take 4 ships that are completely different and perform well.

Good luck and have fun.

Thanks Bitharne. Yes, modified dice is high on my priority list currently. And I realize that if I play with too much sparkly new stuff (like having all the options in Vassal versus playing with just what I have at home), then I can get lost in keeping track of what all can be done to the point of doing stupid things like forgetting to put down a focus / evade token on all my ships. It is compounded by poor movement.

It will get better and I'll begin to add in more and more things, though I expect I'll learn a lot from having things flown at me. And if I don't get hammered by TLTs again anytime soon, it will be good... but I don't expect that to happen too often right now.

And blade_mercurial, I wasn't pressured per se... I just didn't think it would be as bad as it was... heh heh... MJ applied zero pressure, he just wanted to start flying against that one. My thought at the time was something like, "sure... I've read about these ships... what can go wrong? it's not like I'm going to win, but it will be good to fly and get my first loss over with so I can keep on learning here"... what could go wrong indeed...

Actually, I'm glad I played that game. I'm never going to have another first game. And if I'm lucky, I'm never going to have a worse game. Progress! As Kidd used to say, "Keep looking up...cause that's where it all is!"

There is just something about trying to limit down to a list. I have potentially two games tonight in the VassalOnline pod matchups. I have been really looking at list building and focusing on keeping it simple and flying ships where I am focused on modifying dice instead of wanting to take extra actions. I think I have limited the field to 4 lists... [sigh]... and three hours left to limit them.

Key things I am doing this time...

1) Bought a notebook and will be keeping a manual log of what happens good or bad, who I played, etc.

2) Wrote a "Breathe Deep" notecard to remind myself to do that frequently.

3) Already told my wife about the games and confessed my "Mistakes Were Made" mid-month purchase (curse you PayPal and an available limit)!

4) Watched the clock about a hundred times and I still have two hours of work to go, but the meetings and necessary updates are done so it is too slow allowing me to focus and worry about things too much... oh yeah, this is not beneficial, so strike all of that last one...

4) Have my Playlist ready to go, though I am wishing I had my old Iron Eagle soundtrack on cassette... the Danger Zone addition will have to do...

Good games and all that jazz to everyone else playing tonight. I just have to remember I have to go through the fire to melt off the slag... "To Vassal... and Beyond!"

EDIT: Two hours to go and I think I am bringing my Marauderxz list. More on how it flies later... well, not really so much about the list. Mostly it is about me getting better at Vassal and playing more games. Smiling while I am playing... if I can keep doing and learn something from the game then it will be a great game!

Edited by Grayfax

Showed up with my Marauderxz list against Mega's Slavers. Several things from this second Vassal game:

1) Drank too much tea before the match and forgot to breathe in spite of the note

2) Seeing a lot of well-known names pop into the viewers list increases nervous energy, you know, like the TC Aces winners and such... regardless, thanks for visiting guys!

2) 3 large ships can shrink the board significantly, especially when lined up against the board edge. Need to anticipate more moves in advance.

3) Same pilot skill is awesome when raging death shots have dice on fire (yes, twice)! Probably saved my bacon... heck... I know it saved my bacon!

4) Remember to use Target Lock when opponent is out of firing arc.

5) Notes are hard to write during the match, but vlogs are awesome tools to go back and remember exactly where mistakes were made and see where you went wrong. Of course, you suddenly realize how much you fidgeted with dials and stuff when you have to click through everything. Still writing down notes in my notebook so I can force myself to distill important things to learn and think through.

6) Soundtrack helps... really need to find the Iron Eagle soundtrack and add in Major Tom...

7) Keep first aid kit at computer... wasn't expecting the young kitten to draw blood mid-game and needing to stop the bleeding... they grow up sooo fast!

100-60 Win versus a very gracious opponent!

Nice! I popped in half way through the match and it looked grim for you (2 slavers vs 2 khiraxz at that point---I watched your 3rd khiraxz go down in flames just as you killed one of the slavers). I went to check out a few other matches and then had to clean up around the house so never made it back.

I assume you were able to get behind them and kill the damaged slaver before losing another ship? That is one thing with engineless YVs, once the enemy is behind them, they can get into serious trouble...

Yeah, I still got nicked by his arcs a couple of times, but mostly I was able to fire on him every time with at least one of the ships, especially when he had 3 stress and had used his inertial dampener. Dice totally saved me on this game. Two of my dying ships fired hits and crits on the way out... really changing the game for a total of 3 hits and 3 crits. Did a lot wrong, but learned what a wall of large ships can look like and survived. Every day I'm learning and loving this game more!

Several vassal games later (all heavy learning experience games), I have moved away (temporarily) from Scum to explore the Defenders. I like what they can do, but they want you to fly as fast as you can everywhere you go (with the evade title). Thanks to SeaRaptor, I got a good view of how Defenders can really reposition the opening encounters... basically rotating the board 90 degrees. Really interesting effect. I still struggle with anticipating opponents with low PS ships, but I think I am improving every game a little, but, as Sozin pointed out, I need to be more aggressive in some aspects dealing with asteroids.

I had also submitted a list to the Scum and Villainy Podcast and wish I could have changed it prior to the show, but they had some good notes on it anyway, so here are my changes:

Jammin the Night Away
A Scum Stressbot List featuring 4-LOM

4-LOM (27) (G1-A Starfighter)
Wired (1)
Zuckuss (1)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Tractor Beam (1)
Mist Hunter (0)
35 Points

Guri (30) (StarViper)
Predator (3)
Sensor Jammer (4)
Autothrusters (2)
Virago (1)
40 Points

Palob Godalhi (20) (HWK-290)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
25 Points

Total: 100

Yes, 4-LOM can act as a stressbot and just load up on it, if that is appropriate for that game. The key is to at least do stressful things with him, through movement or Zuckus so that you can hand off 1 to someone else at the End Phase. Just because you can pile R3-A2 levels of stress on him doesn't mean that you should. I do like the addition of Palob and want to see how the Ion Cannon affects things. I removed Advanced Sensors and added Sensor Jammer to 4-LOM. Dropped the Black Sun Ace... still do not have a good list for him and was what I was searching for when making the list to submit to S&V (because of Patreon Support Level titles). Should be more powerful against aces, but will likely struggle or die against TLT lists, but I'll need to try that out to make sure.

Meanwhile, for the tabletop, I picked up Most Wanted... Hooray for that being back in stock! I grabbed a HWK-290 from local availability. I also have a playmat (basic FFG starfield) and some acrylic tokens on order that should be in this week. Going to have to pick up some squad boxes, but that will have to wait until the 1st... the downside of being paid once a month...

Edited by Grayfax

I began (and just as you quickly becoming completely addicted) with xw this christmas. Everything o write is so true, from playing sologames to tearing shrinkwrap!

I have a few friends interested and ther is a small but active local XW community but I simply have hard finding the time to play (and, as ive found out these later years, with age i find it harder and harder to reach out to new people, especially those younger).

I did manage to have my firat vassal game last night though, against a gentleman RD4-something...i sadly forgot his full username....

In any case he helped me stumble through the game, aiding me with both rules and the Vassal system itself, and gave me some beginner pointers to think about! Im amazed whenever I meet people like this on the net!

It will never replace a full face to face experience with all the joy of setting dials and moving ships, but its definitely a great complement and at least scratches the itch!

Agreed, Soulless... Vassal doesn't replace the game, and hang in there, get a few more matches and it will feel a little more natural. Heck, I took screen captures of the notes for the shortcuts and printed them out... much easier to find during a match. Yes, you can do it all with a right click, but it isn't the same speed and you do start learning them. Vassal culture is really amazing (and terrifying)! Some of the best players in the world are playing and practicing on there and you can certainly play them and/or be watched by them. I am currently 1-3 on Vassal and have learned quite a bit from each and every game I have played on there. The VassalLeague was a blessing, because I didn't have to throw on the "!" and have someone randomly challenge me... I had a pod to play against and get to know a bit along the way. Yes, there is the competitive nature to it, but I am in it to learn and that I have gotten in spades. I will be sad that my last match will be tomorrow night, but a new batch is on the horizon next week.

As I will have a mat within a day or two, and I have talked to the local Hastings who has tables that get used mostly for Magic... they now have a night open on Tuesday nights. I'm trying to recruit another player that can meet me there, but if that fails, I'll see if I can post a "learn to play" sign and show up with a lot of ships, the mat and see... though I feel people are more likely to ask about it if there is a game in session than just a lone dork sitting all by himself with plastic ships.

If you see me on, send me a message, as long as I'm not fixing to have a pod game, I'll play. And to be honest, I've been on less lately because I keep having either podcasts to listen to, twitch feeds from Scum and Villainy or SentryBox going live or Real Life getting in the way. That aspect is not going to go away, but I do need to get back on and hang out more in Vassal. Even without commentary there is a lot to learn watching good players doing things you have never done before.

Stepping stones are going to be a thing for me for a while. I realize this and in spite of some luck in my second outing on Vassal, I ended up doing how I should have been doing (and not how I wished I was doing). So in the Season 0 of VassalOnline in Pod14, I won 1 game and lost 3. I have described some of what I learned when I won, which, was mostly dice. Dice definitely have an affect on this game and I have had several players apologize when I'm rolling blank after blank after blank. It's ok, I'm used to my streaky game dice no matter the form. Which means I have to play better so that I am not as dice dependent.



Ok, so my Marauderxz (5 Cartel Marauders - Kihraxz Fighters with no upgrades) won a game and lost a game. I probably should have kept playing them, but... I didn't. Without any real prep, I figured I could take what I learned from SeaRaptor and pick up 2 Defenders and add in a couple of TIE Interceptors and take on Sozin. Not that I had any real thought of being able to beat him. I did see how SeaRaptor had shifted the board very well using the speed of the Defenders and was able to do something similar against Sozin. In the end, his Juke and Comm Relay shenanigans wore me out, but it was my less than stellar flying choices that did not allow me to focus fire consistently that lost me the game.



For my final game, I had been trying to find a Rebel list I liked and did not want a lot of TLT spam in it. I wanted to be able to punch some damage through and still have regeneration. As Paul Heaver and MajorJuggler state that any current rebel lists should have the stresshog, I created the Fox and the Hound list and talked about it in another post. Two T-70 X-Wings (Poe with R5-P9, VI and Autothrusters; Red Ace with R2-D2, Comm Relay and Integrated Astromech) and the Stresshog (Gold Squadron Y-Wing with R3-A2, BTL-A4 Title and Twin Laser Turret). I chose the three largest asteroids from the original core set to accompany these ships.



I played emarrrosu with Super Dash and Poe. I should have given away initiative but I forget about some of those things and knew I had "initiative bid" and went with it. I did get to shoot first, but I was moving before his Poe with mine... though, really, it was my list against his Dash. He also brought three of the largest asteroids so the middle of the board was very heavy. I had read that a good way to pick up the first evade on Red Ace was to fly over an asteroid, so I did that and hugged the Stressbot in to the side and behind her, away from all of his ships. I stuck Poe midway between those two and the board edge, toward his ships. I then proceeded to fly Red Ace over nearly every asteroid imaginable. My judgement of distances on Vassal was exceptionally bad last night. Dash was on my ships the second turn with boosting and was able to get me against the ropes quickly. I've never flown against Dash and in hindsight I should have tried to pin him down and block him with Red Ace but I was so focused on trying to keep actions and regen with R2-D2 that I, once again, was not anticipating moves as much as reacting to them. I even landed Poe directly on an asteroid and then did the same thing to the Y-Wing the very next turn. I did manage to get 2 stress on his Poe but it was too little too late and Dash killed my last two ships in very short order.



As the weekend approaches, I am faced with a decision. Go back to Scum or keep trying out the Rebel list. The comforting place would be going back to the Marauderxz, because I fairly well can fly them in a loose formation and know that they are going to put a lot of red dice on targets and kill them quickly or die trying. But that's all they do. They are very dice dependent on staying alive and are very low Pilot Skill ships with fairly decent turning ability but no repositioning abilities and no evade. Dropping to a 3 ship list is much more challenging and with a range of Pilot Skills it forces me to really think out where I am going and how I need to be stopping the opponent. Not only that, I have to pay attention to a lot of elements that factor into my list: Autothrusters, Poe and Red Ace abilities, figuring out where to focus the stressbot and lining up zones for stress. I also need to have a better bait and trap method worked out. I don't think my initial placement was terrible on the last match, but I underestimated how fast Dash could move around the board and how devastating his HLC could be to me.



Until I know who my next opponents will be and when I can get in the first game or two, I need to be playing around with this. Or seeing if there is a different Scum list I want to fly. Not really wanting to fly the G1-A Starfighter or the Jumpmaster 5000 anytime soon, so I'll let other people pick them up and test them out.



On the homefront and actual table play, my wife picked out cards tonight and put ships on the new Starfield Playmat, but she was too tired from putting the list together for us to actual get in any play. As I wanted to work on some of my new scum ships and not having any T70 X-Wings yet, I figured I might as well work within the constriction of my actual cards and ships and see what I could bring. I ended up with the following:



Talonbane Cobra (Kihraxz Fighter)


Veteran Instincs and Hot Shot Blaster



Palob Godalhi (HWK-290)


Determination, Moldy Crow Title, Recon Specialist and Ion Cannon Turret



Kaa'To Leeachos (Z-95 Headhunter)


Crackshot



Cartel Marauder (Kihraxz Fighter)



This puts me at 100 points with PS 11, 5, 5 and 2 and a lot of abilities to keep up with. She is not going to like me stealing focus or evade tokens, so I may need to buy chocolate before we play!



We'll see what she ends up with. I know she wants to keep it simple, but she actually logged in to YASB and Voidstate's Squad Builder and I think she liked Voidstate's better and built out the beginnings of a list. I talked over a few things and think she may have half her list in X-Wings (Biggs was talked about, and maybe a Rookie with R2-D2). Mostly I need to play regularly on the table regardless of what is happening on Vassal. I also need to get myself to a point where I'm knowledgeable of where my ships synergies are and what order I need to do things and still anticipate where her ships are going to end up.



I also think I am going to get to play the teenage son of some friends of ours on Sunday while they are all watching the Walking Dead episode. Given the choice, I much prefer the X-Wing to the Zombies! So... yeah, I've had some expected downs, but I'm doing better at writing down what is happening during the matches and I think I am analyzing what I need to do more of for the future. Next month I need to buy 2 T-70 X-Wings and 1 K-Wing so I can field my "Fox and the Hound" list on a real table and practice flying it in person more. I think in time I will really like the list, but it will need refinement in the hands behind the wheel.



Until next time... fly casual and keep learning!


Edited by Grayfax

When I first heard about the Dash + Corran build that was so popular last year, it scared the crap out of me (as a primarily imperial player). I thought it was bull, hehe.

So I went on to VASSAL and played solo games against that list. I would not really focus on playing a real game, just using the copy function to see where Dash could end up in any given position, and which of those positions would be really bad for me and which I was fine with. It took many, many games before I started to feel comfortable predicting Dash.

Anyway, I think you are on the right track. To be honest, rebels are easier to play than scum, so by going rebels you aare making it an 'easier' learning experience. Nothing wrong with that, and you're rebel list is quite strong. It sounds like you have the right ideas in your head (trying to block when able, identify most dangerous target and burn it down, etc). You just need more practice!

Getting games on the actual table are important, because the scale on VASSAL 'feels' different. I try to play at least twice a month on the actual tabletop (fortunately I have a couple friends I can play to make that happen). I also play about 1 game per week on VASSAL. The rest of my time devoted to x-wing is theorizing and testing out build ideas :P

The game is thoroughly addicting...