So, now that we've all had a chance to stretch our legs a bit, I thought I'd ask how people are finding the Raider specifically in the role of anti-squadron.

On paper, it seems so simple. The numbers are amazing on the Raider I with Ordnance Experts, being able to both blast enemy squadrons for a nearly guaranteed 2 dmg and also lay into most ships for a surprising amount of damage.

The problem I'm having is actually finding a way to use this capability of the Raider while still utilizing its superior maneuverability to keep it out of serious incoming fire. My Raider never seems to be in the right place at the right time to hit enemy squadrons, and the few times I've seen the option to do so there has always been a preferable attack run on a vulnerable enemy ship.

I want to use the Raider to annihilate squadrons. The image in my mind of the sleek little ship unloading Macross level missile barrages into a ball of fighters is priceless, it just never seems to translate into gameplay.

I wind up watching the same old TIE academy pilots die holding off enemy squadrons while my Raiders rocket forward to take the fight to the enemy.

Now, the titles deserve a little bit of discussion, because I realized tonight that Instigator may be more interesting than it seems at first.

Impetuous is obviously good, assuming you are taking at least 1-2 rounds of anti-squadron fire against at least a handful of enemy fighters, and if there isn't anything else you could possibly spend the 4 pts to put ordnance experts on.

Instigator seems, at first glance, to be a simple hard counter to Grit, which right now doesn't seem particularly helpful, but it also appears to be a fairly hard counter to Intel, which is more interesting to me. A few times recently I've suffered some mean hits from Yavaris and her B-Wings because Jan Ors swept in and scrambled my TIEs badly enough to open up my flagship. It occurs to me that Intel cannot add the Heavy keyword to a ship, so any squadron engaged by Instigator can't be freed from that engagement by Intel.

This is making me think about really trying to run the Instigator as a turn 1-3 squadron hunter for a few games. Activate squadrons, throw in some TIEs to lock down the target squadrons then roll in the Instigator, flank with Impetuous and use the next turn to blast every fighter in the ball for an average 4 damage (from both ships) with another 2 from impetuous...

But that's all just theory.

What are your experiences? Anyone out there making it work?

Hit the enemy ships harder? No ship no points. 10-0 home run? .

Jk.

Yeah it seems to be kinda hard to get it all right but what should be better IMO is to use the raider as a threat platform along with your other ships. As enemy squadrons come to defend they will come into range where you can unload missiles.

This is me:

Plan: keep raiders and squads together. Period.

Setup: stick the squads in between/around your twin raiders. So far, so good.

Actual play: weeeee...and there they go, racing around, drawing fire and chasing priority targets.

I've had a couple of games where the squads and the raiders happened to coexist in the same area for a round or two, but that's it.

This is me:

Plan: keep raiders and squads together. Period.

Setup: stick the squads in between/around your twin raiders. So far, so good.

Actual play: weeeee...and there they go, racing around, drawing fire and chasing priority targets.

I've had a couple of games where the squads and the raiders happened to coexist in the same area for a round or two, but that's it.

This! This is how I plan on running Raiders in lists

I think the Raider 1 W/expanded launchers and ordinance expert would be deadly in supporting a squadron made up with Howlrunner, a few Interceptors, and Dengar. It looks fun.

This is me:

Plan: keep raiders and squads together. Period.

Setup: stick the squads in between/around your twin raiders. So far, so good.

Actual play: weeeee...and there they go, racing around, drawing fire and chasing priority targets.

I've had a couple of games where the squads and the raiders happened to coexist in the same area for a round or two, but that's it.

This! This is how I plan on running Raiders in lists

The Raider never went above speed 2 which is its sweet spot I think.

I used the Raider to provide squadron commands to assist a single squadron I wanted to reposition as well as get a move and attack out of Mithel instead of just a move.

I enjoyed it.

People seem to look at it, go "Hey, It can go Speed 4!" - and then feel they Must have it at Speed 3 or it will explode from potential energy buildup, or something...

The only inherent advantage to the speeds is the ability to turn, and thus, positioning, but often a speed 1 positioning might be an advantage to a speed 4 positioning, there is no inherant advantage to speed... Its not like it makes you physically harder to hit...

From my experience, it's important to recognize if you'll need the Raider for its flak or to use it for anti-ship purposes while you're deploying. If you're using it primarily as a flak machine, it works best supporting your squadrons. Engage the enemy squadrons and then stroll on up with the Raider (which keeps it safe from getting bombed). Next turn unload as much flak as you can and then either get out of there (on to bigger and better things) or continue orbiting the furball until you've given it a satisfactory trim. If you're using it primarily for anti-ship, then it can circumstantially flak enemy squadrons when it's convenient.

It can (and does) go back and forth between those two basic roles, but deciding on one or the other early on has been important for me getting the best use out of mine, as they require different setups and sometimes different starting speeds as well. I would not recommend using Raiders for anti-squadron without some friendly squadrons to help hold enemy squadrons in place for you. Squadrons that cannot meaningfully harm the Raider will otherwise leave and those that can will bomb the bejesus out of you otherwise.

I can't emphasize enough how crappy I am at raiders right now.

I have literally had 3 games in a row where the same raider has not fired a single shot before dying. I've only killed 1 ship with a raider ever.

It is a great little ship but I need like a dozen more games of practice...

Favorite ship to date, hands down.

I keep it near my squadrons generally at speed II to maintain the ability to swing with the squadrons. Enemy fighters are a lot more reluctant to engage yours with this thing floating around. I had one game where I did 18 anti-squadron damage in two turns! It was ugly, and there were a lot fewer A-wings for my Ties to worry about.

I have also had success using it as a screen for my fighters. It will sit out front of where I want them to go. Enemy squadrons once again are forced to choose to pass within its gun range, or give my fighters space to move. Arm it with Quad lasers/Ruthless Tactics/Ordnance Experts and keep it flanked by a couple cheap ties or a single advanced to use Ruthless and enemy fighters are swept away. If they have to commit one of their ships to engage the Raider, then I feel it is also performing a function.

Its not like it makes you physically harder to hit...

From my experiences...I can never use my raider for this. No one seems to take squadrons hehe

Its not like it makes you physically harder to hit...

Admiral Montferret Bags to Differ

That's inherent to the Montferrat Card, Not the Speed itself, which was my point.

This is me:

Plan: keep raiders and squads together. Period.

Setup: stick the squads in between/around your twin raiders. So far, so good.

Actual play: weeeee...and there they go, racing around, drawing fire and chasing priority targets.

I've had a couple of games where the squads and the raiders happened to coexist in the same area for a round or two, but that's it.

Seems about right.

While we don't have ANY problem with people taking zero squadrons around here, it's worth noting that the Raider-I fits into a fun little niche of flexibility, since the same upgrade that makes it a monster of anti-squadron also makes it a wicked ship attacker.

I never feel *bad* taking a Raider with Ordnance Experts. I do feel a little bad when I rarely use them to blow up fighters.

Indeed. I use it as a crit-delivery missile...APT with screed and Prescision Strike as my red allows me to pull 15-30 points per shot with him (and Demolisher). If I have fighters to shoot, the side arc is meh so I'll take them!

People seem to look at it, go "Hey, It can go Speed 4!" - and then feel they Must have it at Speed 3 or it will explode from potential energy buildup, or something...

The only inherent advantage to the speeds is the ability to turn, and thus, positioning, but often a speed 1 positioning might be an advantage to a speed 4 positioning, there is no inherant advantage to speed... Its not like it makes you physically harder to hit...

Speed is as much a weapon in my hands as the ships themselves....but I admit, I still haven't figured out this darned ship. I fly Glads way better. Hmm... Ozzel bears considering. List planning.....

People seem to look at it, go "Hey, It can go Speed 4!" - and then feel they Must have it at Speed 3 or it will explode from potential energy buildup, or something...

The only inherent advantage to the speeds is the ability to turn, and thus, positioning, but often a speed 1 positioning might be an advantage to a speed 4 positioning, there is no inherant advantage to speed... Its not like it makes you physically harder to hit...

Speed is as much a weapon in my hands as the ships themselves....but I admit, I still haven't figured out this darned ship. I fly Glads way better. Hmm... Ozzel bears considering. List planning.....

I kinda like taking a nav token first turn and then I can "mini-ozzel" him as needed. Speed 2 is gold for Raiders, but Speed 4 is obviously amazing for getting into position over the first half the game.

From my experiences...I can never use my raider for this. No one seems to take squadrons hehe

I'm going to be running two to support the ISD and a Fireball tomorrow. The more I think about the Raider the more I want APTs.

I don't see them being much good as anti-fighter alone, because the other guys fighters are just going to stay away from them.I think you need to pin down your target fighters with a squadron command then bring the raiders into range,

I don't see them being much good as anti-fighter alone, because the other guys fighters are just going to stay away from them.I think you need to pin down your target fighters with a squadron command then bring the raiders into range,

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you just need to keep bombers off your ships, then Instigator helps tie them up by shutting down any Intel shenanigans. If enemy fighters keep away during all that, then all the better.

From my experiences...I can never use my raider for this. No one seems to take squadrons hehe

While we don't have ANY problem with people taking zero squadrons around here, it's worth noting that the Raider-I fits into a fun little niche of flexibility, since the same upgrade that makes it a monster of anti-squadron also makes it a wicked ship attacker.

I never feel *bad* taking a Raider with Ordnance Experts. I do feel a little bad when I rarely use them to blow up fighters.

Absolutely. Love the Raider for this reason. I had a Raider I with Ordnance Experts parked in the forward arc of an MC-80 last game. The little bugger put five damage with an accuracy on that ship, then jumped over it at speed 3.

I agree that half the battle of the Raider is denying the enemy freedom of squadron movement. It creates a bubble of death that they will not move into unless they want to die. That can be just as good a value as actually killing squadrons.

I got to run two yesterday, which sold me on them further. Statler waded in, dealt 7 damage to the face of a corvette, and bump-slowed the Nebs long enough to let my ISD trundle up and unzip the cannons. Waldorf shot around the side, ideally to mop up on turns 5-6, and got to dual-arc a lone X-Wing squad that got too curious. The Ordnace experts are invaluable on the Raider. I am positive that had the match continued into the sixth turn, Waldorf would have ran clean through that last 'vette.

I got to run two yesterday, which sold me on them further. Statler waded in, dealt 7 damage to the face of a corvette, and bump-slowed the Nebs long enough to let my ISD trundle up and unzip the cannons. Waldorf shot around the side, ideally to mop up on turns 5-6, and got to dual-arc a lone X-Wing squad that got too curious. The Ordnace experts are invaluable on the Raider. I am positive that had the match continued into the sixth turn, Waldorf would have ran clean through that last 'vette.

I have a list with 3 CR90s, the Larry, Curly and Moe. We should face off sometime.